Around the League Thread | Holiday Season!

tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,549
14,806
Missouri
Despite Jiricek's issues, he's still a massively better prospect than anything they'll get with the assets they gave up, and is pretty much a dead lock to be an NHL player of some sort.

It wasn't the right move for us to be making but it's a very nice value deal for Minnesota.
I agree. This is a very good prospect for the Wild to pick up. This isn't a guy aging out of the prospect system. And there is the real possibility he has been mishandled and will flourish elsewhere.

Good deal by the Wild. And honestly about as good as the Jackets could do given the bad blood between team and player was very public.
 

Reverend Mayhem

Tell me all your thoughts on God
Feb 15, 2009
28,782
5,916
Port Coquitlam, BC
Yeah Jiricek isn't in our wheelhouse, I really don't feel like we "missed out" on him. We need someone more established. If PIT keeps tanking, I wouldn't mind Tanger/Karl on the cheap if it worked out. But this guy definitely needs to be able to see the ice upon breakout well and be able to make whatever pass is the best available.
 

Tables of Stats

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
4,797
4,718
Vancouver, BC
Despite Jiricek's issues, he's still a massively better prospect than anything they'll get with the assets they gave up, and is pretty much a dead lock to be an NHL player of some sort.

It wasn't the right move for us to be making but it's a very nice value deal for Minnesota.
This really depends on how Jiricek develops. If he caps as a 5th D who's not great at evens but can man PP2 or work as part of a 2D setup on PP1 then it's unlikely you could flip him for anything even close to what you paid for him. It's a decent gamble for a team that's stuck in the mushy middle, but not one I'd be overly comfortable making unless my pro scouts were pushing for it.
 

Nick Lang

Registered User
May 14, 2015
2,431
909
Lost Covid season of 20-21. OHL and levels lower in Ontario didn’t play right? Same across Canada. Not surprised if kids drafted from 2020 onwards need an extra year to catch back up.
2020 drafted was promoted as deep. Not sure we see that depth. Not considered the quality of 2015, but supposedly deep. Going into 3rd year for most as pros.

It seems to me many projections regarding strength of drafts end up being wrong anyway. Most teams are lucky to even get one player out of a draft so it's all about who you pick, how good your scouting is, and of course a good dose of luck.

that's a weird trade that might hurt both teams. underwhelming return for cbj which did not need picks but also that many picks moving may hurt minny more than the value of the individual parts. i get the fact it is spread over multiple drafts but i think ditching so many picks is going to hurt minny's pipeline and trade options.

I think if Minny has done their homework like they appear to have done with Faber this could be an absolute homerun. They gave up a fair bit of draft capital but it's spaced out and they are ramping up to win now and the near future. This is the type of guy that could step in and provide massive value sooner than later. Maybe all he needs is a change of scenery. He certainly has the pedigree, great physical tools, and believes he will succeed.

A chance with a more together franchise could do wonders. Signed until 2026 and will be a 22 year old RFA. I really like this move for Minnesota. Bogosian currently the 3rd line RD at $1.25 mil who is 35 next year and UFA following that. Pretty good timing without the pressure of having to succeed right away.

That is a whole lot of not much for Jiricek.

1st round pick in the 20s and a depth prospect.

Surprised nobody beat that. Great deal for Minnesota.

The 2nd and third rounder as well. The fourth is bordering on useless but still a pick that holds a little value. But yeah nothing great there, however, considering the situation I guess no one was willing to take a massive swing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I am toxic and quat

StreetHawk

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
29,373
11,417
Spurgeon is under contract until 2027. So Jiricek has this season and 2 more to get to a 2nd pairing Dman in terms of ice time.

See how he develops.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
56,187
93,576
Vancouver, BC
This really depends on how Jiricek develops. If he caps as a 5th D who's not great at evens but can man PP2 or work as part of a 2D setup on PP1 then it's unlikely you could flip him for anything even close to what you paid for him. It's a decent gamble for a team that's stuck in the mushy middle, but not one I'd be overly comfortable making unless my pro scouts were pushing for it.

You can say this for all the draft picks as well, and all of them are substantially less likely to generate a return on investment than Jiricek is. They traded a bunch of middling-to-crappy futures for one very, very good future asset.

The only issue is the opportunity cost of not having those picks at the deadline, but they have a pretty deep system so they'll be fine for making other moves.
 

Tables of Stats

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
4,797
4,718
Vancouver, BC
You can say this for all the draft picks as well, and all of them are substantially less likely to generate a return on investment than Jiricek is. They traded a bunch of middling-to-crappy futures for one very, very good future asset.

The only issue is the opportunity cost of not having those picks at the deadline, but they have a pretty deep system so they'll be fine for making other moves.
I was valuing the draft picks as trade capital. The opportunity cost for getting Jiricek could prevent getting a juicier target later and gambling on the upside of a prospect is always riskier than going for a more developed piece. I tend to look for more established players poised to break out in a different circumstance than less developed pieces where you're paying for an upside that might not materialize, it all comes down to what your scouting team is telling you and your own evaluation of their reports.
 
  • Like
Reactions: andora

sandwichbird2023

Registered User
Aug 4, 2004
4,102
2,263
I was valuing the draft picks as trade capital. The opportunity cost for getting Jiricek could prevent getting a juicier target later and gambling on the upside of a prospect is always riskier than going for a more developed piece. I tend to look for more established players poised to break out in a different circumstance than less developed pieces where you're paying for an upside that might not materialize, it all comes down to what your scouting team is telling you and your own evaluation of their reports.
They don't have the cap space to make any meaningful addition at this deadline anyways, so missing that 2025 1st rounder isn't really going to affect their ability to add. I think they are planning to stand pat mostly this deadline, I don't really see them dumping guys like Foglino/Trenin/Gaudreau that they just signed, so I don't think there is much of an opportunity cost for them.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
19,607
6,447
You can say this for all the draft picks as well, and all of them are substantially less likely to generate a return on investment than Jiricek is. They traded a bunch of middling-to-crappy futures for one very, very good future asset.

The only issue is the opportunity cost of not having those picks at the deadline, but they have a pretty deep system so they'll be fine for making other moves.
I was valuing the draft picks as trade capital. The opportunity cost for getting Jiricek could prevent getting a juicier target later and gambling on the upside of a prospect is always riskier than going for a more developed piece. I tend to look for more established players poised to break out in a different circumstance than less developed pieces where you're paying for an upside that might not materialize, it all comes down to what your scouting team is telling you and your own evaluation of their reports.

Everything comes down to what they have in Jiricek. Is he the next Juolevi with is skating issues or will he blossom into a #3 or even first pairing Dman? If Jiricek is anywhere close to being a #3 for a decade + that's a premium asset worth the draft picks Minny traded. If Jiricek is going to more of a disappointing bottom pairing defenseman then CBJ did well.

The odd thing to me is that CBJ initially wanted a 1 for 1 deal and reportedly told us we don't have the prospects to make the deal. Then they switched course (which is fine) and didn't come back to us? Do we not have anything aside from Willander they were interested in? Getting the second best Hunt to play for the Wild is hardly a prize. Like I said, our 2025 1st, as it stands, is more valuable than Wild's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tables of Stats

quat

Faking Life
Apr 4, 2003
15,537
2,668
Duncan
Everything comes down to what they have in Jiricek. Is he the next Juolevi with is skating issues or will he blossom into a #3 or even first pairing Dman? If Jiricek is anywhere close to being a #3 for a decade + that's a premium asset worth the draft picks Minny traded. If Jiricek is going to more of a disappointing bottom pairing defenseman then CBJ did well.

The odd thing to me is that CBJ initially wanted a 1 for 1 deal and reportedly told us we don't have the prospects to make the deal. Then they switched course (which is fine) and didn't come back to us? Do we not have anything aside from Willander they were interested in? Getting the second best Hunt to play for the Wild is hardly a prize. Like I said, our 2025 1st, as it stands, is more valuable than Wild's.
I wonder if GMs will push harder in some trades and ease up on others? Just to see what shakes lose. It's possible that the Canucks had offered the Jackets what they got back from Minny, but figured accepting nothing but Wilander might actually work. No harm if they know they're getting the same deal if it's turned down, and there's aways a chance you're dealing with a Benning, who's not afraid of overpaying to secure the deal they want.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
19,607
6,447
I wonder if GMs will push harder in some trades and ease up on others? Just to see what shakes lose. It's possible that the Canucks had offered the Jackets what they got back from Minny, but figured accepting nothing but Wilander might actually work. No harm if they know they're getting the same deal if it's turned down, and there's aways a chance you're dealing with a Benning, who's not afraid of overpaying to secure the deal they want.

I don't have an answer to that but we've done a deal with Waddell's Hurricanes before (Ethan Bear deal) and before that Kero. Plus Allvin has some history with Waddell dating back to when both were scouts in the Penguins organization.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quat

StreetHawk

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
29,373
11,417
I don't have an answer to that but we've done a deal with Waddell's Hurricanes before (Ethan Bear deal) and before that Kero. Plus Allvin has some history with Waddell dating back to when both were scouts in the Penguins organization.
Burke said it best, there are some GM's that you can get straight to the point with, which are much easier to deal with. Call it the OBC if you want, but goes for any walk of life really. If you know the rep at a supplier for a decade, much easier to get things done.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
19,607
6,447
Burke said it best, there are some GM's that you can get straight to the point with, which are much easier to deal with. Call it the OBC if you want, but goes for any walk of life really. If you know the rep at a supplier for a decade, much easier to get things done.

Ya and that's my point. I think our management is pretty fair to deal with and if they were told we didn't have the prospects to get it done that's fair and straight to the point. But once CBJ targeted draft picks I wonder if we got a chance to re-engage.
 

Nick Lang

Registered User
May 14, 2015
2,431
909
Ya and that's my point. I think our management is pretty fair to deal with and if they were told we didn't have the prospects to get it done that's fair and straight to the point. But once CBJ targeted draft picks I wonder if we got a chance to re-engage.

I kind of doubt we wanted to deplete our draft stock like that for a current tweener so even if they got the chance would not be surprised if they passed. I think it would have worked out better for us originally with a roster player like Hoglander if they were interested. I don't know if Dameon Hunt is any good but he's got some decent statistics for points and size. Over .5ppg last year in the AHL, 6'1, 201 lbs. Looks far better than any of our prospects not named Willander. Former 3rd rounder.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,892
11,722
This really depends on how Jiricek develops. If he caps as a 5th D who's not great at evens but can man PP2 or work as part of a 2D setup on PP1 then it's unlikely you could flip him for anything even close to what you paid for him. It's a decent gamble for a team that's stuck in the mushy middle, but not one I'd be overly comfortable making unless my pro scouts were pushing for it.
Sure that's fair but his skillset and production as a teenager in the AHL still speaks to his value as a prospect.

Heck if he was a forward his statline as a teenager in the AHL would be encouraging.

This could be a killer deal for Minny.
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
Sponsor
May 19, 2011
11,232
12,857
Burnaby
The f*** happened to the Rangers, everyone is slumping on that team.

Shesterkin turned down a massive contract and now looks like Georgiev. He may have done the Rangers a major favour.

I think part of it is also how management was so eager to say they want to blow up the core, probably torpedoed the morale of the locker room. Felt like such an unnecessary and butt hurt move...now it's becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.
🥠

Good to see Leafs beat the Chicago Bedards. Get out while you can Connor, to a team that gives a shit about you and is not run by a bunch of corrupt f***ers.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
19,607
6,447
I kind of doubt we wanted to deplete our draft stock like that for a current tweener so even if they got the chance would not be surprised if they passed. I think it would have worked out better for us originally with a roster player like Hoglander if they were interested. I don't know if Dameon Hunt is any good but he's got some decent statistics for points and size. Over .5ppg last year in the AHL, 6'1, 201 lbs. Looks far better than any of our prospects not named Willander. Former 3rd rounder.

I don’t disagree but that’s not what has been reported so I don’t know. I agree that we likely preferred to trade less picks.

Like I said, I don’t take an issue with Hunt being the target, but whether you think he’s a potential top 4 Dman vs bottom pairing guy he’s not worth much. He is more NHL ready than any prospect we have down on the farm. But again, at this point, the difference in projected value between Wild’s and our 1st alone is at least a 2nd round pick (obviously things can change but even as a Canucks fan I can’t be optimistic about the Canucks making a run up the standings).

But ya maybe we were given a chance to beat Wild’s offer and we decided not to match. But since the only report we got was that we were told we didn’t have the prospects to make the deal I assume there were no further discussions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vector

LemonSauceD

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 31, 2015
8,290
14,206
Vancouver

Post Sports+ Inside The Rangers

A heart-to-heart with Chris Kreider on the state of the spiraling Rangers

I generally like to use this opportunity to interact with you on off-topics, perhaps personal recollections from nearly five decades — seven decades, really, counting the 50-cent GO seats in the side balcony at the old barn and the blue seat I occupied as a season subscriber in the new place’s original Section 419 — immersed with the Rangers.

But there are no off-topics today. There is only one topic, and that is the team spiral that threatens to send the 2024-25 Blueshirts into a very dark place.

I can tell you with absolute confidence there is no credibility to the report that first popped up over the weekend on the social media platform X linking the Rangers to Joel Quenneville. That was spun out of thin air. There has been no contact between the parties and there will be no contact between the parties.

The Rangers are not going to fire Peter Laviolette. The Rangers are committed to Peter Laviolette. They are not bum-rushing this coach out of town.

Monday’s 5-1 defeat to the Devils at the Garden was different but the same. Igor Shesterkin, the last line of defense and often the only line of defense, finally broke after being under siege from the opening 10 minutes of the season in Pittsburgh through the holiday weekend. That was different.

And just past the midway point of the match, the Rangers held a 25-10 advantage in shots though trailing 3-0. That was different.

But the mistakes and turnovers in critical areas were the same. The bevy of early odd-man rushes/breakaways was the same. The lack of physicality was the same. The body language was the same.

'It's just not acceptable'​

I spent some time alone with Chris Kreider after the match. On another night, I would have led the column with his quotes. On almost any other night. But I wanted to focus on what needs to be done over these three off-days in advance of Friday’s tilt against the Penguins.

So I’ll tell you now what Kreider told me in an emotional exchange in which No. 20 needed time to frame his responses. Kreider generally breaks down games by X’s and O’s. He always has stressed the importance of communication on the ice. But this was not about X’s and O’s. This was from the heart.

We all know Kreider was one of two players specifically cited in that “memo” distributed throughout the league by GM Chris Drury a little over a week ago that seems like five years ago. Jacob Trouba, of course, was the other.

Safe to say, the team has reacted poorly to it.

So I asked Kreider how much of an impact the outside noise has had on the way the team has gone about its business over the past week.

“I don’t think it’s unwarranted pressure,” he said. “I mean, we put a ton of pressure on ourselves. We came into the season expecting to have success, but this is where we are and have to recognize it.

“How does it affect us? We’ve gone over and gone over the things we need to do better, but there’s a little lapse here, a little lapse there and it’s ending up in the back of our net. It’s just not acceptable.”

The team’s structure has been a model of papier-mâché. But I have felt that the club’s mentality has been off almost from the start. I think that has had an impact on everything the team does.
I wrote this about a week ago, but a team that is so disconnected on the ice cannot be connected off the ice.

The unit has broken down. There are too many players with perceived grievances. It has not been a particularly healthy atmosphere.

Gives an eff​

I brought up the team’s psyche to Kreider. This is where the F-bombs started to fly.

“Obviously, we’re going through more than I think I’ve ever experienced,” Kreider, who first joined the band for the 2012 playoffs and has experienced all of this era, told me.

“I know I keep beating this drum, but we need to f--king work through it and come out better on the other side or else….but 'or else' is not an option. We have one f--king option.

“The only option for us is to f--king continue to work, continue to try to f--king pick each other up better,” he said, his voice rising. “There were better moments tonight, but we still lose the game f--king 5-1.

“Better moments, but another bad start. Cannot happen, but it does. There was a bounce here, a bounce there, but it is not about bounces.

“We’ve got to play a f--king brand of hockey that leaves absolutely no doubt,” he said. "We have to play a brand of hockey that’s going to guarantee wins.”

By this point, other reporters gravitated to the corner locker that Kreider has inhabited for a very long time. Our conversation ended.

There are three days here for the hierarchy, the coaching staff and the playing personnel to identify the infection that has spread through the room and to devise a strategy to eradicate it.

Next week, maybe I can get back to an off-topic. But at this moment, there is only one topic.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,531
10,481
I think part of it is also how management was so eager to say they want to blow up the core, probably torpedoed the morale of the locker room. Felt like such an unnecessary and butt hurt move...now it's becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.
🥠

Good to see Leafs beat the Chicago Bedards. Get out while you can Connor, to a team that gives a shit about you and is not run by a bunch of corrupt f***ers.
Circa Canucks 15-16.

There’s no easy way to rip off the band-aid.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad