GDT: Around the League - Stanley Cup Edition - Round #2

[SeaOfBlue]

This offseason is going to be a re-hash of the saying "winning fixes everything" where stats majors will come out of the woodwork and forget all about the existences of sample sizes or the incompatiblity of a playoff series to regular season playoff games wherein coaching strategies and deployment take a more pronounced role.

2018-2019 Conn Smythe Winner Ryan O'Rielly went the entire second round without a goal, capping off the deciding game 7 with a 0-0-0 -1 stat line in 28:08 game time. Yes we are looking at a Conn Smythe winner. And yes, he had 5 assists vs Marner's 4 assists this time around and yes there's a salary cap discrepancy but if Paul freaking Byron doesn't do his best Sidney Crosby impression, we're going to be facing the Jets and this "conversation" would be behind us. Yes, both Marner and Matthews' playoff production has been downright awful but in these situations, it makes little sense to let go of talents of their level when they're in their primes. They were getting chances this year and Marner especially was being relied on heavily in all aspects of the game and doing a damn good job at it defensively. Make a trade if it makes sense, not just for the sake of making one.

I fully agree, except I think the Leafs should still consider moving Marner. Not because of cap... I think people are overly focused on the "40 mill on 4 forwards" thing. I am more concerned about his style.

Pure playmakers still have a role in the NHL, but ones like Marner are dying. You need to have a shot as any kind of high end forward, and Marner's shot hasn't really improved since his rookie year despite saying he was working on it. He has shot more often, which is great, but you need to actually have a shot worth respecting... So teams don't even both trying to cover him, and he doesn't drive the net enough to use his hands (which let him down multiple times in the playoffs anyways) to score goals either. Even if he was a 6 million dollar player, that is not something that is acceptable for a core piece on a Cup winning team.

Of course, you don't just move him for anything, but if you get Eichel or a really good package of lesser players who can contribute right away, then I think you have to take it.

 

[Aus34Matt]

Somebody. Anybody.

 

[3blizzard4]

Somebody. Anybody.

whats up with him? If he is such a great coach why has he been fired twice recently? Something is up.

 

[Superstar]

Imagine having Brown and Moore on this roster instead of Mikheyev and Engvall.

I never understood why Dubas had to trade Connor Brown. He was very good for the Leafs.

 

[Aus34Matt]

I never understood why Dubas had to trade Connor Brown. He was very good for the Leafs.

Because he's a Babcock-type player. Dubas and Babs have different philosophies, I'd take one over the other any day (i.e. the Saskatchewan science one ).

 

[LaPlante94]

whats up with him? If he is such a great coach why has he been fired twice recently? Something is up.

His last 2 firings were weird imo from what I remember. He helped turn Florida around and got fired suddenly in his 3rd season after making the playoffs the year before that. Then in Vegas he went to the cup finals and then the 1st round the following season and then his 3rd season he got fired with a 24-19-6 record. So who knows but I'm sure he'll have a head coaching job soon enough.

 

[Superstar]

Because he's a Babcock-type player. Dubas and Babs have different philosophies, I'd take one over the other any day (i.e. the Saskatchewan science one ).

And then replaces him with Andreas Johnsson...what a failure that trade was by Dubas...Brown is a swiss army knife player, a versatile player the Leafs could definitely use.

 

[ToneDog]

I never understood why Dubas had to trade Connor Brown. He was very good for the Leafs.

Had to sweeten to move Z. Ultimately to make cap space for you know who.

 

[LaPlante94]

I never understood why Dubas had to trade Connor Brown. He was very good for the Leafs.

Cap clearance and I believe he was mainly a throw in so Ottawa would take on that Zaitsev contract. So I guess we basically traded him to get Zaitsevs contract off our cap and because he was on our 4th line making 2.1 million dollars.

 

[beleaf101]

Watching the lslanders and the bruins why did we get rid of Matt Martin

 

[Aus34Matt]

Watching the lslanders and the bruins why did we get rid of Matt Martin

At the time it was against our marshmallow vision and speed, speed, speed!

 

[MSZ]

The winner of the north series will be able to host their home games in Canada. Now I'm officially jealous.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Ned Flanders is now an Habs fan and he welcome his friendly new neighbors.
But he mistake Winnipeg with Mexico.

 

[fahad203]

What's the issue with Soupy? Yeah the guy has stone hands but he makes peanuts and is due to put up some goal totals at some point.

Being one dimensional doesn't get you far unless that happens to be scoring. He brings nothing else. Dude is soft as butter. Be generates no offensive chances despite of having great speed. He hits nothing despite of having size and speed

12 playoff games 0 points. Doesn't elevate his game to anything at all. Most people here like him because of his likable character. He brings nothing

If you like penalty kill and speed then get someone like Toby Reider or Michael Graber

They make leagues minimum but those guys last 12 playoff games have 3 and 4 goals each

Mihakeyev highly adored and loved for no reason

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Because he's a Babcock-type player. Dubas and Babs have different philosophies, I'd take one over the other any day (i.e. the Saskatchewan science one ).

Babcock wanted to completely remove Brown's offensive game and play him on the 4th line, so I don't think that was the problem

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I fully agree, except I think the Leafs should still consider moving Marner. Not because of cap... I think people are overly focused on the "40 mill on 4 forwards" thing. I am more concerned about his style.

Pure playmakers still have a role in the NHL, but ones like Marner are dying. You need to have a shot as any kind of high end forward, and Marner's shot hasn't really improved since his rookie year despite saying he was working on it. He has shot more often, which is great, but you need to actually have a shot worth respecting... So teams don't even both trying to cover him, and he doesn't drive the net enough to use his hands (which let him down multiple times in the playoffs anyways) to score goals either. Even if he was a 6 million dollar player, that is not something that is acceptable for a core piece on a Cup winning team.

Of course, you don't just move him for anything, but if you get Eichel or a really good package of lesser players who can contribute right away, then I think you have to take it.

Marner's shot is a huge factor into why our powerplay was garbage. We had Rielly and Marner in prime shooting positions instead of Tavares and Nylander and then the adjustments removed the latter from unit 1 completely. Cover Matthews and there is zero scoring threat.

If you look at a team like Tampa, Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, Hedman can all move the puck but the also all have a rocket of a shot they can let go at any time. Forces you to basically play it in a straight up box.

Despite what Marner saod there has to be some truth to the rumours about his role on the PP because I never understood why we didn't try having all of Matthews/Nylander/Tavares up high with Rielly/Marner as the low men to set the other 3 up. You need a scoring threat from both sides.

 

[cookie]

I fully agree, except I think the Leafs should still consider moving Marner. Not because of cap... I think people are overly focused on the "40 mill on 4 forwards" thing. I am more concerned about his style.

Pure playmakers still have a role in the NHL, but ones like Marner are dying. You need to have a shot as any kind of high end forward, and Marner's shot hasn't really improved since his rookie year despite saying he was working on it. He has shot more often, which is great, but you need to actually have a shot worth respecting... So teams don't even both trying to cover him, and he doesn't drive the net enough to use his hands (which let him down multiple times in the playoffs anyways) to score goals either. Even if he was a 6 million dollar player, that is not something that is acceptable for a core piece on a Cup winning team.

Of course, you don't just move him for anything, but if you get Eichel or a really good package of lesser players who can contribute right away, then I think you have to take it.

We used to have a London Knight on the team that played a similar style, with a muffin for a shot, who became a great goal scorer in his final years on the team... but that required him to work with his coach and change his game from a more east-west style to more north-south style that relied on him finding spots closer to the net. I think the whole needing a quality shot thing gets overblown, especially when you consider that Marner was on pace for 30 goals for the season (and flirted with that in 18-19) but there is ample evidence to suggest that his shot and his shooting decisions do need work.

If a player's shot is a non-factor, especially when it comes to set offensive situations like the powerplay, then it's up to both the player and the coaching staff to find a common ground where the player's talents are maximized. It seems as though Marner was thought of as a set-it and forget-it kind of option when in reality, his going on a slump could dramatically affect the entire powerplay given the amount of touches he gets. But the blame also falls on the player too - how many opportunities has he missed playing hero hockey? How many opportunities has he shot directly into a goalie's chest when he could instead shoot low to create rebounds? These are a distinction of low-IQ player, never even getting to the lack of a net drive.

With that said, I believe that Marner's value can be maximized by icing him as a secondary offensive threat on the team, the role that Nylander currently is in. Is that worth upwards of $10 m per year? No. Would Eichel be an upgrade for Marner? He brings with him a whole new host of talents that are in short supply, sure, BUT he also brings with him injury concerns. There might be a silver lining here where Dubas can have him take most of the year off for the necessary surgery and have him come back come playoff time ala Kucherov. I'm just scared he (and/or his agent) might take advantage of the goodwill Dubas provides to basically get a payday.

 

[cookie]

I never understood why Dubas had to trade Connor Brown. He was very good for the Leafs.

the trade also included offloading a Nikita Zaitsev

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I never understood why Dubas had to trade Connor Brown. He was very good for the Leafs.

And then replaces him with Andreas Johnsson...what a failure that trade was by Dubas...Brown is a swiss army knife player, a versatile player the Leafs could definitely use.

He was the sweetener for Ottawa taking Zaitsev. I miss him too and we could've used him last season but there's a good chance that like Johnsson he prices himself out and gets moved anyway. Hindsight maybe you'd rather have traded Johnsson in that deal instead of Brown and maybe Brown's energy helps the Leafs beat Columbus at least, or gets them in a position where they don't face Columbus by placing higher in the standings.

 

[3blizzard4]

Habs score 1. Game is molasses slow. What a bore fest. This is the Habs strategy. The goal was a fluke and watch them ride this goal for 40more minutes to victory.

 

[2 Slick]

This game is a duplicate of game 2. Score one lowly goal and then bore Winnipeg into another loss. Montreal has got to be the least unexciting team in playoffs history.

Edit: Oh wow, they scored two goals. Still boring.

 

[Aashir]

Huh, who could’ve predicted that Montreal would get out of the North division. I hope that Colorado/Vegas win in 4 against them

 

[ryno23]

Just shows you how bad losing to MTL was. The Jests are shit and we would have whomped them. These Leafs players better learn their lesson this season.

 

[leburn98]

Watching the lslanders and the bruins why did we get rid of Matt Martin

He wasn't good enough to play for Mike Bobcat.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

And then replaces him with Andreas Johnsson...what a failure that trade was by Dubas...Brown is a swiss army knife player, a versatile player the Leafs could definitely use.

I imagine Ottawa asked for Brown specifically because their new coach (DJ Smith) knew him really well. He also knew that Brown was buried behind depth (lowering brown's value) and would excel when given more opportunity.

Edit: evidently brown was quite well liked in the dressing room and lots of the younger guys hung out at his place