I didn't say that. Good luck arguing he was trying to hit his head through his shoulder.
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I didn't say that. Good luck arguing he was trying to hit his head through his shoulder.
scryan
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- May 1, 2013
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You said:
So, yeah, you did.
And again, what he was "trying to do" does not matter. Intentions are irrelevant as HYORI was trying to point out earlier. Its only about avoidable or not, not where he wanted to hit.
Its only OK if there was no way he could keep from hitting a players head. If you miss or hit bad that is your fault, you could have not went for that hit.
HYORI 1963
Grit & Character
Ok, so I just watched Torres hit on Stoll. And although, the first of contact was to Stoll's shoulder, the primary contact was to his head, resulting in Torres' suspension. I guess that was the picture that I was trying to paint, and obviously didn't do a good job of it.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Right.
Torres DOES hit shoulders, it's his trajectory that's a problem. He goes from shoulder up through the dome instead of driving thru chests. And he doesn't do himself any favors with the angle of attack.
Not exactly. I said "somewhat" contradictory because if you hit both how exactly do you determine which is "main". Remember its main point of contact.
scryan
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And more importantly negates any insistence that the hit was unavoidable, and that really is THE key point here.
If he was driving into the check, he was not trying to avoid it, hard to win the argument that it was unavoidable when it was a hit he was TRYING to make. That he wasn't "trying" for the head is entirely irrelevant. If he was trying for the hit, he is responsible for it. Its the players obligation to hit safely. (The only exception to this would be if he was trying to hit safely, and the player being hit turned in such a way that even when trying to avoid the hit contact was made)
Lot of rationalizing in that video. Clearly they want to get RT off the ice -- fair enough. The rules are written so that you can pretty much call something illegal for any hit.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
come on man. They're not THAT subjective, and the video pointed out myriad things that were wrong by the rules, it's not like they were just making **** up.
You're free to have a differing opinion, that's fine, but you're in the extreme minority--it's just poor form to accuse the other side of just making up whatever they want. Agree to disagree, it's all good. But they're not just picking on poor Raffi for no reason.
come on man. They're not THAT subjective, and the video pointed out myriad things that were wrong by the rules, it's not like they were just making **** up.
You're free to have a differing opinion, that's fine, but you're in the extreme minority--it's just poor form to accuse the other side of just making up whatever they want. Agree to disagree, it's all good. But they're not just picking on poor Raffi for no reason.
OK, when have you seen a suspension for "elevating" when the player didn't leave his feet?
When have you seen charging called for a guy gliding in?
Reclamation Project
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scryan
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This statement leaves it open to it may or may not be the "main" point of contact.
Your previous statement was
"The head isn't the main point of contact if you get the shoulder first."
So no, you did not leave it open to either one being the main point of contact. You were wrong, and you said directly that the head IS NOT the main point IF you get the shoulder first.
It very well could be.
As to:
"how exactly do you determine which is "main"
Its physics. Both trajectory and the displacement of the hit players body. The hit should go from the shoulder, through the center of mass. When this is done you can see the inpact in the players body, vs contact through a shoulder into a head, where not much effect is seen on the torso and it is visible that the majority of the force is applied to the head.
Again, watch the DOPS video "Hard Hits vs. Illegal Hits"
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=995
Many good examples of both.
Your right that it CAN be someone subjective, this is why there is a department that rules on it. HOWEVER it is pretty clear when the force is applied to the shoulder and THROUGH the center of mass of the body, vs clipping a shoulder and going through the head.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
You don't even need to look farther than the other videos of Torres I posted not even a page ago to see examples of that. "elevating" doesn't necessarily mean leaving feet. I talked in previous posts about his hitting form being horrible for that reason.
And gliding in my ass, the guy took strides far away and a few more when he got close...but that's beside the point because you need to review the rulebook definition of charging anyway. But sure, I'll indulge you. You may be familiar with this
You're not even arguing semantics so much as you're adopting your own view of them, plugging your ears, and telling everyone else they're wrong because your definitions are the only view.
Steve Zissou
I'll order you a red cap and a Speedo.
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We've been thru the charging def, virtually any hit can fit the def. It's what is normally called that matters. Same with "elevating". I tell people when they're wrong when they just make stuff up: "You can't make contact to others' head, intentional or not." etc.
Have a great day.
KOPITARRULEZ11
Registered User
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We traded him for this guy!
Who we traded for this guy!
Who we traded for a bunch of rubbish posts!
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
And everything Torres did is normally called. If they were abnormal or completely different from things that had come before, I'd actually agree with you.
But nite!
Man what did I miss?
I'd like to add that I care more about the gold I've been flushing down the "drain" then this Torres suspension.
I'd like to add that I care more about the gold I've been flushing down the "drain" then this Torres suspension.
PJ Kings Hockey
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- Oct 15, 2013
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There 's an article on Sportsnet with Trevor Linden stressing that filling out their roster was going to be completely merit-based, irrespective of waiver status or cost to acquire a player. Vey (and Corrado) were outplayed at camp, but Adam Cracknell, (we hardly knew ya) who was brought in to provide veteran leadership for their AHL team, made the team. He's their new 4th-line center.
Also, Andrew Bodnarchuk was just put on waivers the other day by Columbus.
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Mattias
The friendly cat.
- Feb 15, 2009
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Tell me about it, just looking at a poster plugging his ears and typing 'wah wah wah league out to get a redhead wah wah'.
Good riddance to Torres. Dude has bloody nine previous convictions in the NHL.
kovacro
Uvijek Vjerni
I remember all the talk about this kid and the big push to sign him. Wasn't he looking some sort of reassurance he would not start in the AHL, wanted to be in the show off the hop?
Not saying he's gonna be ****** but he might also be another Joe Piskula.
Mike Reilly has been assigned to the AHL.
As training camp progressed it didn't look like Reilly would earn a top-six defense spot, so this move isn't surprising. The 22-year-old defender will get plenty of playing time in the minors.
Source: Chad Graff on Twitter
Oct 6 - 11:19 AM
Not saying he's gonna be ****** but he might also be another Joe Piskula.
Mike Reilly has been assigned to the AHL.
As training camp progressed it didn't look like Reilly would earn a top-six defense spot, so this move isn't surprising. The 22-year-old defender will get plenty of playing time in the minors.
Source: Chad Graff on Twitter
Oct 6 - 11:19 AM
They employed the ********, they pay the consequences. At least they knew the type of player he is and the risk, unlike with Voynov which was a one-time (that we know of) incident that came out of the blue.
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