Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

[cyris]

I wasn't sure if this was allowed so I looked it up.

Yes, they absolutely can trade for Murray back.

If a team retains salary on a trade, they cannot reacquire that player for one year from the date of the transaction, unless the contract ends prior to one year.

If they are willing to take Muzzin and Murray's LTIR of the Leafs hands I wouldn't be too greedy on the return if I was the Leafs.

I mean, let's face it, Ottawa already paid Toronto to take Murray in the first place.

The question wasn’t if Ottawa could reacquire Murray. It’s if that absolves the cap retention that they have on the books for him if they do.
And I don’t think it does. I believe once retention is made on a player it remains on the books until the contract ends unless the player is bought out which then the team with the retention would be partly responsible for.

I remember this came up with Kessel when the Pens were trying to trade him. Some people wanted the Pens to trade him to the Leafs before he went to Arizona so we could pay an asset to then complete the trade to the Coyotes at his full cap hit thus removing his retention from our books. But it wasn’t possible then because once you retain on a player it stayed on the books even if you reacquire said player.

Edit: I used the ask a capoligist question from the link you provided and sent them a question about this exact situation. I’ll let people know what they say if they respond to me

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The question wasn’t if Ottawa could reacquire Murray. It’s if that absolves the cap retention that they have on the books for him if they do.
And I don’t think it does. I believe once retention is made on a player it remains on the books until the contract ends unless the player is bought out which then the team with the retention would be partly responsible for.

I remember this came up with Kessel when the Pens were trying to trade him. Some people wanted the Pens to trade him to the Leafs before he went to Arizona so we could pay an asset to then complete the trade to the Coyotes at his full cap hit thus removing his retention from our books. But it wasn’t possible then because once you retain on a player it stayed on the books even if you reacquire said player.

Well now you've opened a can of worms.

I think you are correct. The retained salary becomes separated from the remainder of the players contract. I think it has something to do with cap circumvention.

But I don't even know what day of the week it is, so I'm not the right guy to be answering that question.

Has anyone actually ever been traded back to the team that retained salary on them before?

 

[cyris]

Well now you've opened a can of worms.

I think you are correct. The retained salary becomes separated from the remainder of the players contract. I think it has something to do with cap circumvention.

But I don't even know what day of the week it is, so I'm not the right guy to be answering that question.

Has anyone actually ever been traded back to the team that retained salary on them before?

I used the ask a capoligest feature from the link you provided. If they respond to me I’ll let you know.
As to the second part. I don’t remember it ever happening. Teams have signed players they traded and who were then bought out ie Deangelo but I can’t remember a team trading for a player they have previously retained on which doesn’t mean it didn’t happen

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I used the ask a capoligest feature from the link you provided. If they respond to me I’ll let you know.
As to the second part. I don’t remember it ever happening. Teams have signed players they traded and who were then bought out ie Deangelo but I can’t remember a team trading for a player they have previously retained on which doesn’t mean it didn’t happen

That'd be awesome, thanks.

This is what happens when lawyers and accountants are in charge of the game. Everything is so complicated it takes a team of suits to know it all. And even still huge mistakes are made.

Like that time the entire NHL, including his own agent, forgot O'Rielly would have to clear re-entry waivers that year he held out, and a bunch of teams offer sheeted him.

The Calgary one was accepted. So if Colorado didn't match O'Rielly would have been placed on waivers. Calgary would have had to pay a first and third, or whatever the compensation was, only to watch another team reap the benefit.

Colorado matched, but Feaster and Weisbrod still got fired.

 

[Machinae]

I guess it makes sense that it can't be done, which is too bad, because it is a creative and interesting way to help both Ottawa and Toronto.

 

[cyris]

That'd be awesome, thanks.

This is what happens when lawyers and accountants are in charge of the game. Everything is so complicated it takes a team of suits to know it all. And even still huge mistakes are made.

Like that time the entire NHL, including his own agent, forgot O'Rielly would have to clear re-entry waivers that year he held out, and a bunch of teams offer sheeted him.

The Calgary one was accepted. So if Colorado didn't match O'Rielly would have been placed on waivers. Calgary would have had to pay a first and third, or whatever the compensation was, only to watch another team reap the benefit.

Colorado matched, but Feaster and Weisbrod still got fired.

Well on the bright side while you and I may be confused the Leafs definitely employ the guy who knows the answer to these kinda questions with Pridham. It helps that he is the one that wrote them.

Yeah I remember that OReily offer sheet situation. The really funny part of that was that Colorado was near the bottom of the standings. If they could have dropped a few spots in the standings they could have taken the picks and then been first in waiver priority and claimed him

I guess it makes sense that it can't be done, which is too bad, because it is a creative and interesting way to help both Ottawa and Toronto.

It was a good creative idea and it has lead to an interesting discussion.

 

[francis246]

Ottawa is gonna take the LTIR burden from us to recoup the Murray retention, I can smell it.

I doubt Toronto does that, why would they help out a division rival, unless the sweetner was a first?

Also Toronto uses LTIR space every deadline to help get more players. They accrue as much cap space as possible and get as close to the cap ceiling as they can for their deadline adds so they can take full advantage of the LTIR’d salaries. Zero chance they move Muzzin or Murray

 

[kb]

I doubt Toronto does that, why would they help out a division rival, unless the sweetner was a first?

Also Toronto uses LTIR space every deadline to help accrue as much cap space as possible for their deadline adds. Zero chance they move Muzzin or Murray

Teams can't accrue cap space while using LTIR.

 

[francis246]

Teams can't accrue cap space while using LTIR.

Sorry I’ll be more clear, they will accrue the most cap they can prior to the start of the season to be as close to the cap ceiling to maximize using LTIR for the year. Moving Murray would then have to be followed by moving a roster player. We would be over the cap most likely still or really close to it and unable to have 23 guys up. So I don’t see how that move makes sense for the Leafs at any point.

 

[kb]

Sorry I’ll be more clear, they will accrue the most cap they can prior to the start of the season to be as close to the cap ceiling to maximize using LTIR for the year. Moving Murray would then have to be followed by moving a roster player. We would be over the cap most likely still or really close to it and unable to have 23 guys up. So I don’t see how that move makes sense for the Leafs at any point.

Well, if you move Murray, it essentially becomes a zero sum situation.

In simplest terms, how LTIR works is that Murray's cap hit is counted towards the cap, but then once he is put on LTIR, the Leafs have that cap space to use. So if the Leafs traded him, the net effect is that his cap hit comes off the books, which frees up that amount.....which is already being used anyway.

 

[Jojalu]

Pit/Was or Arz/NJ?

NJ is fun to watch but the Penguins have so many storylines.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Pit/Was or Arz/NJ?

NJ is fun to watch but the Penguins have so many storylines.

Pit/Was because f*** Arizona

 

[Jojalu]

Pit/Was because f*** Arizona

I can't believe it's year 19 of Ovi vs Crosby!

 

[hamzarocks]

The habs f***ed up so so bad in 2022

They passed on a marner eqsue talent in cooley for a Josh anderson lite (I'm hating a bit, Slaf can become a 1st liner if he peaks high)

Cooley looks sensational

 

[klmdg]

Caps are going to have a rough year

Ovie looked cooked

As for Sandin, he floated out of position a lot defensively and was unable to recover due to his poor skating

If they plan on playing him 20+ a night, they are in for a hurting

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The habs f***ed up so so bad in 2022

They passed on a marner eqsue talent in cooley for a Josh anderson lite (I'm hating a bit, Slaf can become a 1st liner if he peaks high)

Cooley looks sensational

Every team has them but can’t help but think Cooley, Tkachuk, Michkov and Oettinger makes their rebuild different.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Every team has them but can’t help but think Cooley, Tkachuk, Michkov and Oettinger makes their rebuild different.

Passing on Cooley and Michkov is going to haunt that franchise for the next decade and I am going to enjoy every second of it.

 

[Peasy]

I feel like Michkov definitely told some teams not to pick him. But i thought they should have went Cooley number 1 in 2022 cause he had the highest upside, but they went with the safer pick.

Also, not sure how a coach could think a Carlson-Sandin first pairing would be a good thing

 

[Jojalu]

One game in but still kind of unny that TB, Bos, Tor all won while Set, Ott, Buf and Mtl all lost.

The more things change, the more they atay the same

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Tkachuk shows his true colours, hiding behind his stick when confronted by a good fighter.

 

[Burnie97]

Tkachuk shows his true colours, hiding behind his stick when confronted by a good fighter.

I think that's always been a thing though... he turtles.

Good player to score and make plays but pretend tough guy.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[Gallagbi]

Fun play thatll end up on a lot of highlight videos

 

[blue stick]

Panther loss is always a good way to start the evening.
Go Leafs Go!

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

DeBrincat off to a hot start in Detroit. He must’ve really disliked Ottawa.