Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

[francis246]

Its not just Dubas. Its actually a Toronto thing because accountants run the team.

Who got good value out of player trades?

JFJ
Burke
Nonis
Lou
Dubas

Answer is obviously none of them. When a player is hot they sell merch. Don't trade the hot ticket. The team organizationally is flawed in its thinking.

Really only Burke got the best out of players. Getting JVR for Luke Schenn was a huge steal. Even what he paid for Phanuef wasn’t bad either. Burke was the right guy in the wrong era tbh

 

[francis246]

Yet, while on the Leafs he SUCKED in the playoffs, and blocked more Leafs shots in front of the opponents net, than he did opponents shots in front of our net.
Great that he turned it around, but, while he was here, he was not very good, and quite a bad performer in the playoffs.
Had he stayed, and still under Keefe, he certainly wouldnt be the player he is now, and lets not forget the almost 1/2 his points the past 2 seasons are off the PP, 30 goals, and 76 points,
with Leafs in the playoffs averaged 1 goal a season (some being ENG's), with 8 assists over 5 playoff years while playing on the top line, he sucked!

Mess posts the most useless out of context horse crap.

What you said is exactly true! Hyman sucked in the playoffs as a leaf. Now that he’s found some success you can’t turn around and say “see, he’s so good, we f***ed up”. People were pissed about paying Marner the amount of money we did for his playoff totals then you wanted Dubas to pay Hyman almost 6 million for a grand total of 5 playoff goals over 5 years?! Please make it make sense. Mess would have been leading the charge on how we have 5 forwards making over 55% of our cap to lose lol.

 

[Metroid]

PS. For the record Zach Hyman was my favourite Maple Leaf player.

All I needed to to know my good man lol

For the record, I was willing to keep him too at the price coilers got him for, but know he would never have sniffed 50 goals as a leaf.

 

[uncleben]

Auston Matthews scored an amazing 69 regular season goals & 1 playoff goal for a total of 70 goals combined in the 2023-24 season and playoffs, and something that Leaf Nation fans will not soon forget.
vs
Zach Hyman who scored 54 regular season goals & 14 playoff goals (and counting) for a total of 68 goals combined in the 2023-24 season and playoffs and also something that Leaf Nation fans will NEVER forget. Zach is 3 goals away from passing A.M. Leafs record for goals in a season ALL-TIME !!!

You keep banging this drum over and over, but that's not how it works...

Matthews had 69 goals in 81 games
Hyman has 68 goals in 98 games


When all is said and done, Hyman is going to have a minimum of 102 games played this year.
It's not that shocking to any one that the third place goal scorer might pass the first place goal scorer with 20 extra games

What Hyman is doing is already super impressive, we don't really need this weird framing...

You can't just keep appending games and comparing the two as if they're the same.
If Hyman only gets one more goal, are we going to add Hyman's 2 preseason goals in 5 games vs Matthews' 1 preseason goal in 3 games to say he outright beat him this year?

 

[mydnyte]

...You can't just keep appending games and comparing the two as if they're the same.
If Hyman only gets one more goal, are we going to add Hyman's 2 preseason goals in 5 games vs Matthews' 1 preseason goal in 3 games to say he outright beat him this year?

sounds like a correct theorizing, you now have me convinced Hyman > Matthews at the scoring of goals thing in the hockey.

 

[Mess]

You keep banging this drum over and over, but that's not how it works...

Matthews had 69 goals in 81 games
Hyman has 68 goals in 98 games


When all is said and done, Hyman is going to have a minimum of 102 games played this year.
It's not that shocking to any one that the third place goal scorer might pass the first place goal scorer with 20 extra games

What Hyman is doing is already super impressive, we don't really need this weird framing...

You can't just keep appending games and comparing the two as if they're the same.
If Hyman only gets one more goal, are we going to add Hyman's 2 preseason goals in 5 games vs Matthews' 1 preseason goal in 3 games to say he outright beat him this year?

How about when I frame it like this ,where Zach is on the verge of potentially outscoring Leafs entire Core 4 forwards combined last 3 playoffs. ...

The Core 4 Leaf forwards in 95 playoff man-games have scored 34 goals combined over 3 years @ $42.5 mil per [ 3 X $42.5 mil] = $127.5 mil total cap space used (over last 3 playoff seasons) & 1 playoff win.

Zach Hyman in 46 playoff man-games (less then 1/2) has scored 28 goals individually over 3 years @ $5.0 mil per [3 X $5 mil ] = $15 mil total cap space used (over last 3 playoff seasons ) & 6 playoff series wins and counting as Oilers go for the Cup.

With 28 goals in only 46 playoff games the on pace to play 95 games like Leafs 4 forwards combined = .609 goals/game = 58 goals total compared to Leafs 34 goals over the same games played.

Summary : Leafs for an extra +49 man-games & Matthews+Marner+Tavares+Nylander combined and + $97.5 mil extra cap space have recorded +6 more goals and -5 less series wins.

That is both shocking and Impressive, because playoff scoring and championships >>> regular season results.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not so fun fact for diehard Leaf fans.

Did you know ? .. There hadn’t been a Toronto Maple Leafs player reach the 50-goal plateau since before Auston Matthews was born. So excluding Auston (for now).

Leafs All-time 50+ goal scorers .. In chronological order…

- Rick Vaive scored 54 in 1981-82
- Rick Vaive scored 51 in 1982-83
- Rick Vaive scored 52 in 1983-84
- Gary Leeman scored 51 in 1989-90
- Dave Andreychuk scored 53 in 1993-94

Now former Leaf Zach Hyman has scored 54 goals in 2023-24 regular season and 14 playoff goals (and counting) something that long-time Leaf fans rarely ever witnessed in Leafs historical past.

Auston Matthews scored an amazing 69 regular season goals & 1 playoff goal for a total of 70 goals combined in the 2023-24 season and playoffs, and something that Leaf Nation fans will not soon forget.
vs
Zach Hyman who scored 54 regular season goals & 14 playoff goals (and counting) for a total of 68 goals combined in the 2023-24 season and playoffs and also something that Leaf Nation fans will NEVER forget. Zach is 3 goals away from passing A.M. Leafs record for goals in a season ALL-TIME !!!

Leafs walking away from Hyman because $5 mil per was too expensive cap space usage will go down in history among the stupidest moves the organization ever made. So it is a big deal.

Just wait to see the Toronto media reporting on this SHOULD Hyman also hoist the Stanley Cup in a couple weeks.

PS. For the record Zach Hyman was my favourite Maple Leaf player.

Hyman plays hockey the right way. Maybe that irked the Leafs leadership as much as it did the GM.

 

[PromisedLand]

Really only Burke got the best out of players. Getting JVR for Luke Schenn was a huge steal. Even what he paid for Phanuef wasn’t bad either. Burke was the right guy in the wrong era tbh

the two firsts and a second for Kessel though was too rich...... but then again... the f***ing teacher's pension plan were absolutely shit, incompetent and money hungry owners to begin with

 

[Nineteen67]

You keep banging this drum over and over, but that's not how it works...

Matthews had 69 goals in 81 games
Hyman has 68 goals in 98 games


When all is said and done, Hyman is going to have a minimum of 102 games played this year.
It's not that shocking to any one that the third place goal scorer might pass the first place goal scorer with 20 extra games

What Hyman is doing is already super impressive, we don't really need this weird framing...

You can't just keep appending games and comparing the two as if they're the same.
If Hyman only gets one more goal, are we going to add Hyman's 2 preseason goals in 5 games vs Matthews' 1 preseason goal in 3 games to say he outright beat him this year?

The difference is the regular season 69 goal scorer put more effort into getting the 70th than he did trying to play an extra 20 games. He’s the number 1 reason this core hasn’t won and the bulk of the blame needs to be put on his shoulders.

 

[PromisedLand]

Hyman plays hockey the right way. Maybe that irked the Leafs leadership as much as it did the GM.

I can picture Marner complaining to the management.... Hyman works way too hard and makes us look bad. He doesn't have skill. Just give me the money and let Hyman walk

LMAO

 

[francis246]

The difference is the regular season 69 goal scorer put more effort into getting the 70th than he did trying to play an extra 20 games. He’s the number 1 reason this core hasn’t won and the bulk of the blame needs to be put on his shoulders.

He had a concussion my guy?! Are people forgetting that?

 

[MCR74]

Mess posts the most useless out of context horse crap.

What you said is exactly true! Hyman sucked in the playoffs as a leaf. Now that he’s found some success you can’t turn around and say “see, he’s so good, we f***ed up”. People were pissed about paying Marner the amount of money we did for his playoff totals then you wanted Dubas to pay Hyman almost 6 million for a grand total of 5 playoff goals over 5 years?! Please make it make sense. Mess would have been leading the charge on how we have 5 forwards making over 55% of our cap to lose lol.

Throw Hyman on the Blue Jackets and let's see if he lights up the league.

 

[BertCorbeau]

The difference is the regular season 69 goal scorer put more effort into getting the 70th than he did trying to play an extra 20 games. He’s the number 1 reason this core hasn’t won and the bulk of the blame needs to be put on his shoulders.

Spicy take.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

the two firsts and a second for Kessel though was too rich...... but then again... the f***ing teacher's pension plan were absolutely shit, incompetent and money hungry owners to begin with

Honestly, I'm not entirely convinced the OTPP was fully behind that trade.

The Rask trade...that concept was 100% forced on JFJ from ownership. He is still the one that made the trade and he deserves blame for that, but I will maintain until the day I die that JFJ would never have made a trade like that unless he was forced to go in that direction from his bosses.

But Kessel...I think a healthy chunk of that was Burke's ego too. I think Burke had way more say in the Kessel trade than JFJ did with Rask.

 

[PromisedLand]

Honestly, I'm not entirely convinced the OTPP was fully behind that trade.

The Rask trade...that concept was 100% forced on JFJ from ownership. He is still the one that made the trade and he deserves blame for that, but I will maintain until the day I die that JFJ would never have made a trade like that unless he was forced to go in that direction from his bosses.

But Kessel...I think a healthy chunk of that was Burke's ego too. I think Burke had way more say in the Kessel trade than JFJ did with Rask.

From what I recall:

- JFJ wanted a rebuild OTPP told him a big fat NO!

- Bruke, came in and sold theh rebuild idea and he was told NO; then he sold the re-tool idea and he was told NO! Burke's ego definitely the case too... apparently he was recently quoted saying that he would make that trade again LMAO but really.... if the OTPP wasn't forcing the moves with a stupid mandate without acknowledging that some patience is required; I really doubt Burke makes that trade for Kessel. We had what? f***ing Matt Stajan as our 1C and Jason Blame as our "top winger" at that time LOL. Burke if I recall correctly asked Sundin to waive but he didn't wanna leave TO so Burke's hands were tied too as he was given a mandate from OTPP and he had to show his bosses he is doing something.... LOL

 

[thewave]

Really only Burke got the best out of players. Getting JVR for Luke Schenn was a huge steal. Even what he paid for Phanuef wasn’t bad either. Burke was the right guy in the wrong era tbh

I think he let a bunch of guys go and coined own rental? Not diminishing those deals, they were fine.

His actual only mistake was trying to build a truculant team while keeping a run and gun coach. The roster was strange that way and he refused to fire Ron.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

From what I recall:

- JFJ wanted a rebuild OTPP told him a big fat NO!

- Bruke, came in and sold theh rebuild idea and he was told NO; then he sold the re-tool idea and he was told NO! Burke's ego definitely the case too... apparently he was recently quoted saying that he would make that trade again LMAO but really.... if the OTPP wasn't forcing the moves with a stupid mandate without acknowledging that some patience is required; I really doubt Burke makes that trade for Kessel. We had what? f***ing Matt Stajan as our 1C and Jason Blame as our "top winger" at that time LOL. Burke if I recall correctly asked Sundin to waive but he didn't wanna leave TO so Burke's hands were tied too as he was given a mandate from OTPP and he had to show his bosses he is doing something.... LOL

Yeah it might be my own biases.

I don't remember many hardcore fans liking the Kessel trade but if you had an ounce of brain in you even at the time you knew the Rask trade was an absolute disaster immediately.

Kessel trade was overpaying for a good, but not great, car. Rask trade was overpaying for a salvage-titled shitbox.

 

[francis246]

I think he let a bunch of guys go and coined own rental? Not diminishing those deals, they were fine.

His actual only mistake was trying to build a truculant team while keeping a run and gun coach. The roster was strange that way and he refused to fire Ron.

I don’t remember him doing that, he was pretty good at acquiring. He traded Kris Versteeg to Philly for a First

 

[fahad203]

the two firsts and a second for Kessel though was too rich...... but then again... the f***ing teacher's pension plan were absolutely shit, incompetent and money hungry owners to begin with

Was it though ? He was 21 years old coming of a 37 goal season. He also had 15 points in 15 playoff games

Today's world thats like paying 2 first for Wyatt Jhonston

Especially in an era where goals didn't come easily

Also noting leafs added Komiserak and Francois Beauchmain.

Leafs expected to be much better going into that season. Nobody picked them to be dead last

Also a friendly reminder, that year until the last monthCarolina was the worse team. Then they decided to on a run and lost out

Picking Skinner

 

[fahad203]

Honestly, I'm not entirely convinced the OTPP was fully behind that trade.

The Rask trade...that concept was 100% forced on JFJ from ownership. He is still the one that made the trade and he deserves blame for that, but I will maintain until the day I die that JFJ would never have made a trade like that unless he was forced to go in that direction from his bosses.

But Kessel...I think a healthy chunk of that was Burke's ego too. I think Burke had way more say in the Kessel trade than JFJ did with Rask.

I hated that trade from day 1

But there was another reason. Justin Pogge

Pogge was breaking WHL records, team Canada's records at the wjc. Everyone was convinced he was the one

Boston actually wanted Pogge first. That was in an interview

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I hated that trade from day 1

But there was another reason. Justin Pogge

Pogge was breaking WHL records, team Canada's records at the wjc. Everyone was convinced he was the one

Boston actually wanted Pogge first. That was in an interview

Not me. I was Team Rask from the beginning and that is not hindsight. I was never a Pogge fan. One of the few moments I actually knew what I was talking about but at no point did I see big-time NHL'er in Pogge.

It's ancient history now, unfortunately.

 

[fahad203]

Not me. I was Team Rask from the beginning and that is not hindsight. I was never a Pogge fan. One of the few moments I actually knew what I was talking about but at no point did I see big-time NHL'er in Pogge.

It's ancient history now, unfortunately.

Weird right. One we traded becomes a Stanly Cup winner, vezina trophy candidate and all star

The other doesn't even play a single season in NHL. Gets total of 7 games

 

[Nineteen67]

Spicy take.

Maybe they hitched yo the wrong wagon He trained to be a player, not a champion.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Weird right. One we traded becomes a Stanly Cup winner, vezina trophy candidate and all star

The other doesn't even play a single season in NHL. Gets total of 7 games

One of the Leafiest things that has ever Leafed. Sigh.

 

[ULF_55]

McDavid-Draisaitl era finally entering its prime with Stanley Cup Final appearance

The two star Oilers centremen have spent the past nine seasons building towards their peak. Now, the Connor McDavid-Leon Draisaitl era has arrived at its first Stanley Cup Final. Frankly, it was only a matter of time.

www.sportsnet.ca

Leafs are 1 year behind the Oilers so next year they'll be entering their Prime?