Punch Drunk Loov
Thought Viktor Loov was going to be a guy
- Dec 6, 2011
- 5,610
- 3,986
Utah HC is such a vanilla idea. Did Vesey get consulted for that name?
Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 81,312
- 58,880
I think Utah might be a vanilla idea…
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 24,658
- 12,824
Didn’t Lou give Kovalchuk 17 years at 102 million? I’m sure he’d give Tavares 7.
Jimmy Firecracker
They Fired Sheldon!
MilkofthePoppy
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2022
- 1,050
- 1,825
Similar to how Guentzel was treated in Pittsburgh. The Penguins and the Fraudway Sports Group have no idea about the moron they give their keys to the kingdom too.
uncleben
Global Moderator
Look, I'm not trying to justify the decision - it was sad when it happened and looks even more terrible in retrospect
But that was year 2 of the flat cap, and while Hyman says it was not about the money, does anyone actually think he'd be willing to take no raise and stay at $2.25M?
Trading someone else would've been a better idea - there were certainly solutions - but, in a vacuum and to comment on Hyman's statement that it wasn't about the money for him, we couldn't have afforded $5.5M at the time and it was certainly about the money for the Leafs.
We spent the little available money on bottom six upgrades (Kampf), cheap offensive depth (Bunting), and a goalie (Mrazek, lol)
For how much people here hate running back our top 6 forwards year after year, we gave up a top six guy to try and address other needs, and between Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, and Hyman, Hyman was clearly the easiest one to part with.
Again, in hindsight especially, huuuuge loss, and that money could've been spent waaaaayyyyyy better (like comically so), but withholding a Hyman raise in a flat cap world wasn't that ridiculous of a plan at that time.
He re-signed Kovalchuk after trading for him. He didn't pick him up straight from UFA.
Yes, Lou screwed everything up and Dubas was amazing. Your stance is well known.
How's that decision for letting Hyman go looking? Or even more recently, how about getting fleeced on that Karlsson trade? Rhetorical questions by the way.
Well, that happens when one of the worst GM's in Leaf history is running the show. No one did less with more than that clown.
That's a crime that we didn't commit to making him a life time Leaf.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
I don’t necessarily disagree with the decision to not sign Hyman. That contract would have aged horribly in Toronto. There is no guarantee Hyman becomes what he is in Toronto. Especially since Toronto never made him a focal point on the PP whereas in EDM he is a big piece of their PP.
What I hate Dubas for is, if you knew that you were not bringing him back, we should have traded him to EDM or whoever wanted him while his value was hot. Dubas was so bad at not trading guys at peak value, that’s what I hate Dubas for. For letting him walk for free, get something in return for him, I think that would have eased the transition for fans.
thewave
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2011
- 41,956
- 12,364
Its not just Dubas. Its actually a Toronto thing because accountants run the team.
Who got good value out of player trades?
JFJ
Burke
Nonis
Lou
Dubas
Answer is obviously none of them. When a player is hot they sell merch. Don't trade the hot ticket. The team organizationally is flawed in its thinking.
thewave
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2011
- 41,956
- 12,364
Its perfect. Just rotate once. Make it a horseshoe. Flip the H and there you go Utah.
- Dec 12, 2017
- 25,022
- 11,700
Why is he being asked about this on the eve of the SCF?
Oh, of course. He also spent a ton of assets to acquire him, and got his team punished because he was such an idiot with contracts. But he still signed him to the biggest UFA contract in history, and had no trouble overpaying people in UFA while here or offering even more money for Tavares himself. So there is zero reason to believe that Lou suddenly would not have gone after Tavares if he were here.
Not sure where Dubas came from. You made a claim about Lou that's clearly wrong.
Nobody was fleeced on the Karlsson trade, and while hindsight offers regrets for every team, the decision to let Hyman go was justified. It's great for Hyman that in his 30s, he was seemingly able to completely heal from multiple significant injuries, further develop shooting skills, take advantage of being attached at the hip to the best player in decades as well as one of the best offensive players in the league, and stand around the crease on the best PP in the league.
However, if the Hyman situation is any kind of lesson, it's the one you've missed. Hyman was the poster boy for underperforming and underproducing in the playoffs. Through the Matthews era, nobody had a bigger discrepancy between individual expected goals and goals in the playoffs. He got 1 point in his final playoff series with us, and it wasn't even real. Marner's goal was misattributed to Hyman because he was in the general vicinity of the crease while it bounced off an opposing player. Hyman actually dropped to a 17 point pace over his final 3 playoffs with us.
Funny how fast "soft", "unskilled", "injury prone", "horrible playoff performer", "too expensive", etc. turns into "How could you!??". Even more crazy, this board is trying to blast the Hyman decision, while simultaneously advocating to do it all over again with a way more consequential piece.
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Mess
Global Moderator
If you look in the dictionary under the words Gross Incompetence it says ... see Kyle Dubas.
Zach Hyman has singlehandedly nearly outscored all four of Auston Matthews, William Nylander, Mitch Marner and John Tavares over the past 3 playoffs combined.
Over the last three years, the former Maple Leaf has put up 28 goals and 45 points in 46 games for the Oilers in the playoffs.
Lets add some more context here:
The Core 4 Leaf forwards in 95 playoff man-games has scored 34 goals combined over 3 years @ $42.5 mil per [ 3 X $42.5 mil] = $127.5 mil total cap space used (over last 3 playoff seasons) & 1 playoff win.
Zach Hyman in 46 playoff man-games (less then 1/2) has scored 28 goals individually over 3 years @ $5.0 mil per [3 X $5 mil ] = $15 mil total cap space used (over last 3 playoff seasons ) & 6 playoff series wins and counting as Oilers go for the Cup.
Summary : Leafs for an extra +49 man-games & Matthews+Marner+Tavares+Nylander combined and + $97.5 mil extra cap space have recorded +6 more goals and -5 less series wins.
Zach is still playing !!!!
Where you this obsessed of Hyman when he was a leaf? Don't remember lol
Back then, he was just a soft complimentary piece that was injury prone with a short-term playstyle, and a horrible playoff performer that should be purged.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Mess
Global Moderator
Not so fun fact for diehard Leaf fans.
Did you know ? .. There hadn’t been a Toronto Maple Leafs player reach the 50-goal plateau since before Auston Matthews was born. So excluding Auston (for now).
Leafs All-time 50+ goal scorers .. In chronological order…
- Rick Vaive scored 54 in 1981-82
- Rick Vaive scored 51 in 1982-83
- Rick Vaive scored 52 in 1983-84
- Gary Leeman scored 51 in 1989-90
- Dave Andreychuk scored 53 in 1993-94
Now former Leaf Zach Hyman has scored 54 goals in 2023-24 regular season and 14 playoff goals (and counting) something that long-time Leaf fans rarely ever witnessed in Leafs historical past.
Auston Matthews scored an amazing 69 regular season goals & 1 playoff goal for a total of 70 goals combined in the 2023-24 season and playoffs, and something that Leaf Nation fans will not soon forget.
vs
Zach Hyman who scored 54 regular season goals & 14 playoff goals (and counting) for a total of 68 goals combined in the 2023-24 season and playoffs and also something that Leaf Nation fans will NEVER forget. Zach is 3 goals away from passing A.M. Leafs record for goals in a season ALL-TIME !!!
Leafs walking away from Hyman because $5 mil per was too expensive cap space usage will go down in history among the stupidest moves the organization ever made. So it is a big deal.
Just wait to see the Toronto media reporting on this SHOULD Hyman also hoist the Stanley Cup in a couple weeks.
PS. For the record Zach Hyman was my favourite Maple Leaf player.
- Sep 8, 2004
- 15,386
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this is a crock of horse droppings... Leafs offered him a contract, he didnt think it was enough $$ and asked for more, and wasnt offered more, so, he took more $$ and left.
It was always and ONLY about the $$ with Hyman.
Sure, he'd have loved to retire a Leaf, if the paid him what 'he' wanted.
- Sep 8, 2004
- 15,386
- 2,063
Yet, while on the Leafs he SUCKED in the playoffs, and blocked more Leafs shots in front of the opponents net, than he did opponents shots in front of our net.
Great that he turned it around, but, while he was here, he was not very good, and quite a bad performer in the playoffs.
Had he stayed, and still under Keefe, he certainly wouldnt be the player he is now, and lets not forget the almost 1/2 his points the past 2 seasons are off the PP, 30 goals, and 76 points,
with Leafs in the playoffs averaged 1 goal a season (some being ENG's), with 8 assists over 5 playoff years while playing on the top line, he sucked!
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