Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

[Jojalu]

In hindsight, you are right. But even without that, we all acknowledge that Marner was overpaid by about $1.5 million anyway... so a year earlier would have saved another $1.5 mil. So, our issues are somewhere in the $1.5-$3 mil in overpayment, with 100% hindsight. Assuming, Marner's camp would have signed early, and not wanted to bet on themselves... which we don't know.



No one forgets the context.... says the guy who used Hughes and Thompson as comparables...

Feel free to list the comparables, coming out of ELC, who produced at the same levels on their first ELC.

I am not saying they are comparables in any way.

Really my point is that Dubas actually changed the way people negotiate with younger players and now we see the results of it.

All shrewd moves by Jersey and Buffalo to gamble and have it pay off.

In doing so though,, he didn't have to jump so high.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

The cliff the Capitals are likely to fall off of is going to be real steep, real quickly. Ovy, Backstrom, Carlson and Kuznetsov all look like they've aged hard, their prospect pipeline hasn't been panning out (ie. McMichael), and Kuemper strikes as the type of goalie who is a byproduct of the quality of team as opposed to the backbone of it.

Had it not been for Ovy's all-time goal pursuit, I'd imagine the wheels would be in motion to set things up for the future for the post-Ovy era.

 

[Evilhomer]

The cliff the Capitals are likely to fall off of is going to be real steep, real quickly. Ovy, Backstrom, Carlson and Kuznetsov all look like they've aged hard, their prospect pipeline hasn't been panning out (ie. McMichael), and Kuemper strikes as the type of goalie who is a byproduct of the quality of team as opposed to the backbone of it.

Had it not been for Ovy's all-time goal pursuit, I'd imagine the wheels would be in motion to set things up for the future for the post-Ovy era.

Washington is in a tough spot. It's easy to say they should be cold and tear the thing down notwithstanding Ovi, but I can't see how a franchise can realistically do that to literally the greatest player it has ever had. But why they resigned Wilson is a mystery to me. They could have let him go and not been any worse off than they already are.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I hate to trash other teams but watching the Oilers suffer has been thoroughly pleasing. Everybody and their mothers anointed them Cup Champions because they put up a bit of a fight against Vegas last year and they have been nothing short of a disaster this year. I am one of those rare Leaf fans that doesn't want McDavid on our roster. That ship has sailed.

 

[Fogelhund]

I am not saying they are comparables in any way.

Really my point is that Dubas actually changed the way people negotiate with younger players and now we see the results of it.

All shrewd moves by Jersey and Buffalo to gamble and have it pay off.

In doing so though,, he didn't have to jump so high.

I get it. You used Hughes and Thompson as an example of why Toronto is bad… that’s called a comparable. But you got caught with your pants down and are trying to spin now. Continue on with the Hyperbole though, given you don’t have any comparables at all.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Oilers are lucky they only lost 7-4. That could have easily been a 12-4 loss.

They f***ing suck.

 

[Jojalu]

I get it. You used Hughes and Thompson as an example of why Toronto is bad… that’s called a comparable. But you got caught with your pants down and are trying to spin now. Continue on with the Hyperbole though, given you don’t have any comparables at all.

What?

I never once said Toronto was bad, plus I did not use them as comparables.

Crosby's 5 year 9 million would be the closest example to Matthews.

Not really sure who Marners best comparable would be.

 

[Once]

The cliff the Capitals are likely to fall off of is going to be real steep, real quickly. Ovy, Backstrom, Carlson and Kuznetsov all look like they've aged hard, their prospect pipeline hasn't been panning out (ie. McMichael), and Kuemper strikes as the type of goalie who is a byproduct of the quality of team as opposed to the backbone of it.

Had it not been for Ovy's all-time goal pursuit, I'd imagine the wheels would be in motion to set things up for the future for the post-Ovy era.

Saw them play Montreal on Saturday - Backstrom is officially cooked. Can’t skate anymore.

 

[Fogelhund]

What?

I never once said Toronto was bad, plus I did not use them as comparables.

Crosby's 5 year 9 million would be the closest example to Matthews.

Not really sure who Marners best comparable would be.

You don’t use dollars, you use cap percentage. Crosby got 17.3%. Matthews 14.54%, so substantially lower.

 

[VanW27]

He's been on the ice for 38 shots for, 24 against.. But somehow... no goals for. He played a little bit with Kane and McDavid... they dominated possession, dominated shots... and didn't score, but had three goals against.... kind of the story of the Oilers so far this year. At least he's on a league minimum contract, so if it doesn't work, they can send him down.

I just saw that bonus... ... That's terrible. Is there any chance at all, he doesn't go on waivers and get sent down after nine or ten games... and who in their right mind would even contemplate claiming him?

It's really a terrible deal for both sides. I mean there was no indication he wouldn't be able to play this season so reaching the 10GP was basically a formality.

But then considering the player he is and the injury he's coming off of being a 4 million dollar player, especially off the hop was quite unlikely. Now you're in a situation where there's a real chance you send down a quality depth NHLer, who could be more than that as the season goes on, because you don't want him to hit that bonus.

The team's out a decent player and the player is stuck in the minors with a league min salary when he's could/should be making ~2million in the NHL.

 

[Jojalu]

You don’t use dollars, you use cap percentage. Crosby got 17.3%. Matthews 14.54%, so substantially lower.

Correct. The Matthews contract was not as ridiculous as people make it out to be.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The more teams start to gamble and lock up their young talent early the worse it looks for the Leafs.
Robertson, Thompson, Hughes all locked in longterm for pretty good numbers.
Nylander's deal now looks like the only one that was a bargain for the Leafs but now as a UFA they will have to pay to keep him.

It doesn't say anything about the Leafs.
Sometimes teams have their top players take a while to break out, meaning they extract less value out of their ELCs and more value out of their 2nd contracts.
Sometimes teams have their top players be immediately elite, meaning they extract more value out of their ELCs and less value out of their 2nd contracts.

We fell into the 2nd one, and unfortunately some of that massive ELC value was wasted by Lou and Babcock, but we've still been able to extract significant positive value out of both the ELCs and 2nd contracts of all of our core RFAs.

If you want to lock up your top talent early, the real lesson is to not hire an abusive coach and shortsighted GM to derail relationships with your most important players, while also attempting to openly neuter their earning potential through their first 2 years.

 

[BallardEra]

Saw them play Montreal on Saturday - Backstrom is officially cooked. Can’t skate anymore.

Oshie too.

Team has scored 7 goals in 5 games.

 

[Peasy]

It doesn't say anything about the Leafs.
Sometimes teams have their top players take a while to break out, meaning they extract less value out of their ELCs and more value out of their 2nd contracts.
Sometimes teams have their top players be immediately elite, meaning they extract more value out of their ELCs and less value out of their 2nd contracts.

We fell into the 2nd one, and unfortunately some of that massive ELC value was wasted by Lou and Babcock, but we've still been able to extract significant positive value out of both the ELCs and 2nd contracts of all of our core RFAs.

If you want to lock up your top talent early, the real lesson is to not hire an abusive coach and shortsighted GM to derail relationships with your most important players, while also attempting to openly neuter their earning potential through their first 2 years.

Or they could have been proactive and expected a breakout incoming for Marner as he was about to go from playing with Bozak/Kadri to JT. Thats what the Devils did. If you watched Jack Hughes his first 2 years, and looked at his underlying numbers, you knew he was poised for a break out. Kid is just way too talented. So they made a smart move and locked him up the year before his breakout occurred. Imagine they didnt sign that deal, and then he comes in and plays at a 90+ point pace. Well the AAV on that deal went up at least 2m.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Or they could have been proactive and expected a breakout incoming for Marner as he was about to go from playing with Bozak/Kadri to JT.

I'm sure they did expect him to breakout even further. The problem is, Marner also knew he would be going from playing with Bozak to Tavares, and he had spent the past two years being unprecedently neutered and kept away from the team's best players, while being mentally abused by his coach and getting millions of deserved bonus money stolen from him by his shortsighted GM. Takes two to sign a contract, and we unfortunately didn't create an environment where our top players were very enthusiastic to sign early.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

Saw them play Montreal on Saturday - Backstrom is officially cooked. Can’t skate anymore.

Isnt this the same surgery that Kane just did? Worried about him coming back….

 

[rumman]

No need for teammates to intervene, Brady Tkachuk can take care of himself, that’s a asset if playing on the Leafs……..

 

[rumman]

The more teams start to gamble and lock up their young talent early the worse it looks for the Leafs.

Robertson, Thompson, Hughes all locked in longterm for pretty good numbers.

Nylander's deal now looks like the only one that was a bargain for the Leafs but now as a UFA they will have to pay to keep him.

A fair amount of blames falls directly on the Leafs for their collective stupidity in over paying heir players on their last contract which just raises the bar for every player. It’s why Dubas was the NHLPA man of the year for like three years running, every player owes a debt of gratitude to boy wonder for driving the player’s salaries through the roof………

 

[Jmo89]

As bad as the money Dubas gave them, he did not get the full term for any of the 3. Pure f***ing idiot. LOL at the people calling him forward looking.

No need to rehash it again, but it's unreal that he didn't sign either Matthews or Marner early (when they were first eligible for extensions,) after seeing what happened with Nylander. The guy handcuffed himself every way possible. Let both players have career years before signing them, signed them both to shorter lengths, signed Matthews first before Marner, etc. I doubt we see another GM ever walk themselves into such a corner with multiple RFAs ever again.

 

[Nineteen67]

No need for teammates to intervene, Brady Tkachuk can take care of himself, that’s a asset if playing on the Leafs……..

It’s certainly a bonus when the top players can take care of business. Highly entertaining, too.

 

[Peasy]

No need to rehash it again, but it's unreal that he didn't sign either Matthews or Marner early (when they were first eligible for extensions,) after seeing what happened with Nylander. The guy handcuffed himself every way possible. Let both players have career years before signing them, signed them both to shorter lengths, signed Matthews first before Marner, etc. I doubt we see another GM ever walk themselves into such a corner with multiple RFAs ever again.

Difficult to write up a worse way for him to start his time as GM for the Leafs. Only thing worse that coulda happened was not getting Nylander signed at all.

 

[BertCorbeau]

No need to rehash it again, but it's unreal that he didn't sign either Matthews or Marner early (when they were first eligible for extensions,) after seeing what happened with Nylander. The guy handcuffed himself every way possible. Let both players have career years before signing them, signed them both to shorter lengths, signed Matthews first before Marner, etc. I doubt we see another GM ever walk themselves into such a corner with multiple RFAs ever again.

I don’t think signing Matthews in July 2018 would have yielded much of a different contact (dollar wise) that when he signed in Feb 2019. He was already PPG the season prior.

 

[Squiffy]

If you have been around long enough to see the old Politics form, you would know why.

To call it a f***ing cesspool would be an improvement

Unfortunately, as time has proven again and again on these types of topics, is that maintaining a civil discussion is impossible. There are asshat posters on both sides that derail things into a colossal shit show, and moderating is becomes nearly impossible.

..And this here is still understating it lol..

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[Warden of the North]

McDavid and Draisatl are all that stop the Oilers from being a truly awful team.

Those two are still capable of dragging them through a few rounds of the playoffs, though. If they aren't absolutely clicking that team is in trouble. Even last year, IIRC, they were playoff bubble until fairly far into the season when McDrai hit the afterburners and pulled them in.