Around the league part 2

Bandit

Registered User
Jul 23, 2005
32,843
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Unemployed in Greenland
“Sexual assault is ok because we’re winning” is the exact script brought you by the Chicago Blackhawks. I’d rather NOT have shitty people running the sports team I follow because:

1. It’s just hockey. The success of my hockey team <<<<<<< ruining people’s lives.

2. They’re just as likely to be shitty at hockey being awful humans as they are to be shitty at hockey being good humans.
 
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GoldenBearHockey

Registered User
Jan 6, 2014
10,061
4,206
I dunno. I get pretty angry when other people accept sexual assault because the person involved might make their active hobby more enjoyable.

Like, I really think people shouldn't be okay with that.

Do I spend all day arguing about it? No. But I'm glad there are people with the energy to do so.

Edit: of course, Bowman could redeem himself and he could have learned. Since he's now in the position to do the exact same thing, I have to hope so.

But that doesn't mean I think what the Oilers did was right.

It's a fine line.....I don't give two f***s about Bowman.....work, don't work, don't care. But as a whole, there's a whole bunch of 1 strike you and you are done in my world, and then there's a lower level of WTF Are you thinking, are you stupid.....but you give them a 2nd chance....

For me, from my understanding this was not under his direct purview, but he needed to be more proactive, so a 2nd chance after however long it was....is warranted.

There's a difference to me at least between accepting an act, vs accepting a person can grow/change from it, seperate the two and I don't have a problem with this....but I think there should be tighter than normal protocols with him now....
 

Sol

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Come work for me, I’ll treat you right. Minimal pay but we got a ping pong table and basketball machine.
 

Statto

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I dunno. I get pretty angry when other people accept sexual assault because the person involved might make their active hobby more enjoyable.

Like, I really think people shouldn't be okay with that.

Do I spend all day arguing about it? No. But I'm glad there are people with the energy to do so.

Edit: of course, Bowman could redeem himself and he could have learned. Since he's now in the position to do the exact same thing, I have to hope so.

But that doesn't mean I think what the Oilers did was right.
I’m with you on this and am actually at the point of exasperation rather than anger. Nothing will change when those responsible and accountable in these areas face proper consequences for abject failure. They absolutely shouldn’t need to learn what the right thing was, it was obvious. They just had other priorities.

I have someone close to me that is a victim and saw regularly the damage that can be done. What was actually more damaging was some people down playing the impact, support services failing, no being believed and so on. Listening to rehearsed statements, comments that a most likely heavily influenced by lawyers just annoys me even more. So I’m just avoiding every Bowman story or else I’ll put my hand through another door.

When I watched Beech talk about what happened I had tears running down my face because I understood, as much as a non victim could, the impact.

So yeah, the Oilers are a disgrace, but I’m not angry - just completely apathetic and despondent that ‘they’ still don’t get it. Mind you the NHL doesn’t believe in CTE either.
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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I’m with you on this and am actually at the point of exasperation rather than anger. Nothing will change when those responsible and accountable in these areas face proper consequences for abject failure. They absolutely shouldn’t need to learn what the right thing was, it was obvious. They just had other priorities.

I have someone close to me that is a victim and saw regularly the damage that can be done. What was actually more damaging was some people down playing the impact, support services failing, no being believed and so on. Listening to rehearsed statements, comments that a most likely heavily influenced by lawyers just annoys me even more. So I’m just avoiding every Bowman story or else I’ll put my hand through another door.

When I watched Beech talk about what happened I had tears running down my face because I understood, as much as a non victim could, the impact.

So yeah, the Oilers are a disgrace, but I’m not angry - just completely apathetic and despondent that ‘they’ still don’t get it. Mind you the NHL doesn’t believe in CTE either.
I am sorry someone close to you was victimized. I hope they have healed and you as well.

Learning of the toxic elements of hockey culture (e.g the Beech incident, the racism Aliu endured from management before being labeled a problem, etc) has me seeing the side of a sport I love and how it can be better.

It's important to me to call out those aspects that (I feel) foster unhealthy cultural norms. And my hope is three-fold. The hope of:
- a dialogue being started where others can reasonably discuss the issues
- eyes getting open and even one new person realizing the importance of the topic.it's not even to call someone inherently wrong or evil - just that they are fortunate enough not to have to worry about it when this is what some people fear every day
- reminding people who have been subjected to trauma revolving around the discussed behaviors that they're not alone and they have friends.

Like, I remember RJ telling stories of racism he endured while playing hockey, even after "we already said hockey is for everyone. There's no racism." or "throwing the banana at Iginla was bad. See? When there's overt racism we defend them."

Taking a moment to call something bad just isn't enough. The whole "yeah, Mitchell Miller tormented a black kid on the spectrum, but should we let this ruin his life" question got asked a lot. As if the life of the bullied means less, and not having immediate access to hockey until after atonement will ruin Miller's life.

We're on a hockey forum, so I get the discussion is hockey-specific. But as this is hockey's future, we also need to talk about where we as fans take hockey going forward.

I recognize a lot of this makes me insufferable. But it's what little difference I feel I can make to the sport I care about.
 

psych3man

Registered User
Dec 17, 2019
698
915
Outside Chicago
Tell me exactly what transpired between the 5'0 145 lb video coach and the 6'3" 207 lb hockey player that constituted sexual assault.

No one has ever published any details. What happened? Where did it happen? How did it happen? On the surface this makes no sense.

"Beach is a big winger who likes to play a physical and aggressive brand of hockey." (Elite Prospects)
 
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King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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Tell me exactly what transpired between the 5'0 145 lb video coach and the 6'3" 207 lb hockey player that constituted sexual assault.

No one has ever published any details. What happened? Where did it happen? How did it happen? On the surface this makes no sense.

"Beach is a big winger who likes to play a physical and aggressive brand of hockey." (Elite Prospects)

It makes perfect sense when you understand how abusers work. Particularly those who use power dynamics to exploit others.

The lawsuit claims that Aldrich offered to perform oral sex on John Doe, and once approached him from behind, “grabbed him in a hugging gesture, and ground his penis against John Doe’s back and buttocks through his clothes,” the suit reads.

It further alleges that Aldrich surprised John Doe while the player was having sex with a woman by rubbing his feet in an apparent attempt to join the encounter, and offered to pay for him to receive “sexual favors” if Aldrich could watch. Aldrich is also accused of texting the player pictures of his penis and threatening John Doe’s career if he reported his behaviour to the organization.

The suit claims that Aldrich’s “predatory tendencies” were “well-known” to the Blackhawks at the time, and John Doe notified the team president’s secretary as well as a team counsellor about the misconduct


As far as the size disparity, why bring that up? Is he expected to punch his coach? How often do 6'4 players let 5'10 old men call them "p***yes" and just take it? It's the power dynamic that amplifies the abuse.

When it happend to me, it was a doctor. I was a dumb teen just trying not to get in trouble, and didn't even realize it was wrong, because the doctor explained they had to make sure the medication "wasn't doing anything bad."

Now, yes, Beach was older. But he still had grown up being taught to listen to and trust your coaches. And his career was on the line. Any type of push back coukd have caused additional problems.

And he obviously couldn't go complain publicly because of reactions like "he's 6-foot-3. No way he let that happen" when more often than not the source is a trusted person. This is why you'll hear stories of family, camp counselors, teachers, bosses, and religious leaders being the most common stories.
 

psych3man

Registered User
Dec 17, 2019
698
915
Outside Chicago
I will repeat my theme:
None if you, or any of us on this board, know what happened in that sequence of events from start to finish. You are jumping to all kinds of conclusions without knowing any facts.

Please be careful.

I have dealt for 30 years helping legitimate victims, and alleged victims. And you have to know the facts to have any wisdom on matters like this. Otherwise you are projecting.

I can tell you two absolute facts:
(1) This Beach situation does not pass the smell test. There is WAY more to this story than we know.
(2) The NHL media is a mob mentality. (Boomer Gordon, the smartest host on NHL radio, talks about this often regarding national stories).

Please be careful of jumping to judgement when you do not know the facts, especially when what you say and do can ruin or slander lives.
 

Maynard

Veteran of Forum Wars
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Jun 11, 2003
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Tell me exactly what transpired between the 5'0 145 lb video coach and the 6'3" 207 lb hockey player that constituted sexual assault.

No one has ever published any details. What happened? Where did it happen? How did it happen? On the surface this makes no sense.

"Beach is a big winger who likes to play a physical and aggressive brand of hockey." (Elite Prospects)
You have some reading to do.
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
22,534
22,573
I will repeat my theme:
None if you, or any of us on this board, know what happened in that sequence of events from start to finish. You are jumping to all kinds of conclusions without knowing any facts.

Please be careful.

I have dealt for 30 years helping legitimate victims, and alleged victims. And you have to know the facts to have any wisdom on matters like this. Otherwise you are projecting.

I can tell you two absolute facts:
(1) This Beach situation does not pass the smell test. There is WAY more to this story than we know.
(2) The NHL media is a mob mentality. (Boomer Gordon, the smartest host on NHL radio, talks about this often regarding national stories).

Please be careful of jumping to judgement when you do not know the facts, especially when what you say and do can ruin or slander lives.
You have spent 30 years working with "legitimate" victims and don't understand power dynamics?

You accuse us of "not knowing the facts" when you had to ask what happened?

Or the fact that an additional person confirmed Beach's story?

Or during the inquest, the staff members were found of wrongdoing leading to their suspension?

Or the fact Aldricht did this to someone else after leaving the Blackhawks org?

I truly hope you do better with the "actual" victims you "deal with."
 

apadilla

Registered User
Dec 27, 2007
1,660
374
FWIW, On the National Hockey League Talk forum, I added the following to the worst decision/transaction made in a team's history:

"Kings: Braking the rules. Couldn't choose just one.

1a. Trading Larry Murphy to the Washington Capitals in 1983.

1b. Losing Billy Smith to the NY Islanders in the 1972 Expansion Draft.


Note: A trade that might be 1c someday is trading Brock Faber to the Wild in 2022."
 

Johnny Utah

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
11,057
3,124
Santa Monica, CA
Funny how Bowman gets a job before Quenville.

The GM knows all. Even Q on Cam & Stricks podcast admitted some things he didn’t know and took fault for others. But Bowman must known it all as GM.
 

Statto

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Tell me exactly what transpired between the 5'0 145 lb video coach and the 6'3" 207 lb hockey player that constituted sexual assault.

No one has ever published any details. What happened? Where did it happen? How did it happen? On the surface this makes no sense.

"Beach is a big winger who likes to play a physical and aggressive brand of hockey." (Elite Prospects)
Wow.

I will repeat my theme:
None if you, or any of us on this board, know what happened in that sequence of events from start to finish. You are jumping to all kinds of conclusions without knowing any facts.

Please be careful.

I have dealt for 30 years helping legitimate victims, and alleged victims. And you have to know the facts to have any wisdom on matters like this. Otherwise you are projecting.

I can tell you two absolute facts:
(1) This Beach situation does not pass the smell test. There is WAY more to this story than we know.
(2) The NHL media is a mob mentality. (Boomer Gordon, the smartest host on NHL radio, talks about this often regarding national stories).

Please be careful of jumping to judgement when you do not know the facts, especially when what you say and do can ruin or slander lives.
My kindest reply is that this is embarrassing.
 

SettlementRichie10

Registered User
May 6, 2012
10,172
8,314
I will repeat my theme:
None if you, or any of us on this board, know what happened in that sequence of events from start to finish. You are jumping to all kinds of conclusions without knowing any facts.

Please be careful.

I have dealt for 30 years helping legitimate victims, and alleged victims. And you have to know the facts to have any wisdom on matters like this. Otherwise you are projecting.

I can tell you two absolute facts:
(1) This Beach situation does not pass the smell test. There is WAY more to this story than we know.
(2) The NHL media is a mob mentality. (Boomer Gordon, the smartest host on NHL radio, talks about this often regarding national stories).

Please be careful of jumping to judgement when you do not know the facts, especially when what you say and do can ruin or slander lives.

What a bizarre take.
 

YP44

Registered User
Jan 30, 2012
27,329
7,657
Calgary, AB

Telos

In Byfield We Must Trust
Aug 16, 2008
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He should be worth it and more. It's always scary to hand out those deals no matter what, though :P Everything worked out perfectly for him so far throughout his career. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
 
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