Around the league part 2

[Johnny Utah]

I emailed capwages and gave them some info on the Kings. They had Thomas, Turcotte and Fagemo all in the AHL/non NHL roster forwards and had Studnicka with the Kings forwards and they updated based on my email.

Los Angeles Kings | Salary cap and contracts

 

[King'sPawn]

Because the rate at which a franchise produces 200 game NHL talent is such a broad and multifaceted dataset we can’t possibly glean anything particular from it. What kind of NHL talent? From what development path? Is the organization trying to contend? Is the organization tanking? Are they having more success with European prospects versus North American prospects?

There’s just so much that goes into these data, to make statements such as, “well, LA is producing NHL talent at a greater clip than Tampa Bay and Dallas” just doesn’t say anything at all, not without a great many qualifiers.

That's just one metric mentioned. What are yours?

If you think it's irrelevant, provide something more to discuss the good and bad about the drafting.

 

[funky]

it is all semantics to me.

We produce a ton of players that can play in the NHL, more so than any ather team - that’s awesome

Ya but they are mostly middle six and lower skilled players - oh that sucks

But we haven’t had any top end picks other that Byfield and Turcotte. - well one that is headed to the top line and one beset by injury and past by numerous guys picked behind him. - so so

Our 10ish to 20ish picks aren’t bad - Clarke looks good, Vilardi when healthy is good, Kempe is vastly underrated and awesome, then there is Kupari - wasn’t Kempe picked 100 years ago, ya but Deano and Blake don’t like to keep 1st round picks and trade them all away to please the Elders. - well how do we expect to get the high end guys if we don’t pick until the 50’s?

Well we snagged Fiala with a 1st - didn’t we also trade Faber in that deal? He would have looked awesome and was picked in the 2nd

Ya but we usually strike out with 1st rounders - um you don’t usually have any and when you do, very few are high picks.

Well we are trying to win and our last two GM’s must have been given a mandate to win, that’s why we see the Lucic trades, etc - wasn’t it rumored we were gonna pick Barzel? He would have negated the need for PLD right?


This is the shit that goes back and forth in my head on a daily basis. My wife questions whether I am paying attention. No I am not. I have been trying to figure out just what the hell the Kings are doing babe - no don’t tell her that. You’ll get in trouble. To late, she spotted the draft guide in my hand.

Do the rest of you suffer from my plight? Most days there are two voices in my head. But it is only when it comes to the Kings and arguing back and forth in my head what they are doing/thinking, what’s our direction, is Rob really in charge, what could have been, do skilled guys get treated fairly, there has to be another move coming, WTF was that move?

 

[Schrute farms]

This is the shit that goes back and forth in my head on a daily basis. My wife questions whether I am paying attention. No I am not. I have been trying to figure out just what the hell the Kings are doing babe - no don’t tell her that. You’ll get in trouble. To late, she spotted the draft guide in my hand.

Do the rest of you suffer from my plight? Most days there are two voices in my head. But it is only when it comes to the Kings and arguing back and forth in my head what they are doing/thinking, what’s our direction, is Rob really in charge, what could have been, do skilled guys get treated fairly, there has to be another move coming, WTF was that move?

This is awesome stuff! Ditto bro

 

[tigermask48]

That's just one metric mentioned. What are yours?

If you think it's irrelevant, provide something more to discuss the good and bad about the drafting.

I don't think you can look at one specific metric only. Yes, looking at 200 games played across the league is fine, but you need to look at the context of where a player is playing and where in the lineup.

The fact is the Kings develop a bunch of lower tier players, but haven't really developed an impact player since Kopitar, Doughty, Quick. Maybe Kempe belongs there but he was a late bloomer, and an argument could be made for Anderson as well. Byfield is certainly close if not there but he's a top pick and has taken a bit to get going.

It's like the stats discussion from the other day, yeah, stats will give you great info, but you need to look at them in context to get an overall view of what you are looking at.
There just isn't one metric you can look at that tells you "good" or "bad".

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't think you can look at one specific metric only. Yes, looking at 200 games played across the league is fine, but you need to look at the context of where a player is playing and where in the lineup.

The fact is the Kings develop a bunch of lower tier players, but haven't really developed an impact player since Kopitar, Doughty, Quick. Maybe Kempe belongs there but he was a late bloomer, and an argument could be made for Anderson as well. Byfield is certainly close if not there but he's a top pick and has taken a bit to get going.

But that's the point of these numbers - to back up the claim that the Kings develop depth guys and not high-impact players.

Give other metrics then. You'll see the Kings are good at churning out guys who regularly play in the NHL.

It's like the stats discussion from the other day, yeah, stats will give you great info, but you need to look at them in context to get an overall view of what you are looking at.
There just isn't one metric you can look at that tells you "good" or "bad".

And as I said, there were other numbers and metrics you could cite.

As far as "context" maybe this will help.

ATKM said: "What we do know is that they churn out NHL players at a fairly high rate... a rate I have been told in multiple ways and by multiple metrics is higher than the rest of the NHL."

You ignored the first half of his statement, bolded the second half, and said: "Are these the same metrics that had PLD as the Kings number 2 center and a great fit for the Kings for the next 8 years?"

I replied with a list of numbers to show the Kings are good at developing NHL players (backing up Jesse's claim) but also said: "Even if high-impact players are very low in LA, they're stupid good at churning out regulars. I didn't even include college/undrafted FA signings like Iafallo and Lizotte, as I wasn't going to pour over every undrafted free agent the other teams have made."

To which SR said: "Yeah, the franchise is so good at producing NHL players they’re still playing 36 year old Kopitar 25+ minutes a night.

What a ridiculous, irrelevant talking point."

I summarily responded with "How is it irrelevant? It narrows down where the issue is."

I'm agreeing with you on what the issue is. I provided numbers to support a more general statement of the Kings ability to chirn out players with more staying power, which was Jesse's original point. So, I gave context and evidence to my statement.

What's the context and relevancy of bringing up the PLD trade when talking about the Kings' ability or inability to develop. One branch works at the pro level. We're talking about working witb players on an amateur level.

 

[johnjm22]

NHL draft: Which teams have fared the best and worst in the salary-cap era?

Creating a pipeline of young players has become more and more important since the implementation of the salary cap in the NHL, which makes drafting well crucial.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

This article was published last Summer.

The best of the best
#1 Los Angeles Kings
Picks: 133
NHL players: 65
Games: 17,302
Points: 6,505

There's no question LA is one of the best drafting teams.

 

[Steve Zissou]

NHL Rumors: Source reveals major reason for Columbus Blue Jackets throwing Todd McLellan out of new head coach race

 

[DoktorJeep]

NHL Rumors: Source reveals major reason for Columbus Blue Jackets throwing Todd McLellan out of new head coach race

Todd’s good to go. He’s locked into a $5.5M check for doing nothing the next year. And the worst teams in the league are not going to hire him at this point. So he’s sitting back and waiting for an in season opportunity.

He’s easily top of the list. The only question is how long is the wait. Pittsburgh looks like the prime opportunity. Detroit is probably second, but money may be an issue there as well. After that, maybe Winnipeg if they have a terrible start. The only wild card is if Coach Q agrees to take a low money deal for a massively desperate team.

 

[YP44]

Todd’s good to go. He’s locked into a $5.5M check for doing nothing the next year. And the worst teams in the league are not going to hire him at this point. So he’s sitting back and waiting for an in season opportunity.

He’s easily top of the list. The only question is how long is the wait. Pittsburgh looks like the prime opportunity. Detroit is probably second, but money may be an issue there as well. After that, maybe Winnipeg if they have a terrible start. The only wild card is if Coach Q agrees to take a low money deal for a massively desperate team.

could see him coaching the rangers before the calendar turns

 

[Bandit]

Trotz seems to think states with less taxes have an advantage. There's definitely something to it:

Trotz: 'No question' teams in tax-free states have advantage

Nashville Predators general manager Barry Trotz knows his team has an edge over the majority of NHL clubs.Being situated in Tennessee - one of the U.S.' nine states that doesn't levy a state income tax - Predators players are able to keep more of their money.In a league with a hard salary cap...

www.thescore.com

Trotz has no neck. What does he know?

 

[Steve Zissou]

 

[ru4reals]

Insane seeing players who's played so many years with one team wear a different jersey. Gonna be hard seeing Doughty and Kopi wearing another jersey this upcoming season.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Stamkos and Marchessault rejected another team before joining the Predators

NHL insider Frank Seravalli has confirmed that the Anaheim Ducks also offered long-term contracts to both players. According to his sources, the Ducks presented bigger and more lucrative offers, but both players chose Nashville instead.

They made larger and more lucrative offers to both Steven Stamkos and Jonathan Marchessault. More term and more dollars, PHWA president Frank Seravalli reported on his DFO Rundown podcast. Both players just weren't ready for that. That's ok. They didn't get the top six forward and top four defenseman that they were looking for. They took the bat off their shoulder, they swung, and even the best hitters strike out.

 

[unicornpig]

NHL draft: Which teams have fared the best and worst in the salary-cap era?

Creating a pipeline of young players has become more and more important since the implementation of the salary cap in the NHL, which makes drafting well crucial.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

This article was published last Summer.

The best of the best
#1 Los Angeles Kings
Picks: 133
NHL players: 65
Games: 17,302
Points: 6,505

There's no question LA is one of the best drafting teams.

doesnt matter if you draft well when you have Pejorative Slurs like McClellan preventing them from coming up.

 

[kingsfan28]

NHL draft: Which teams have fared the best and worst in the salary-cap era?

Creating a pipeline of young players has become more and more important since the implementation of the salary cap in the NHL, which makes drafting well crucial.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

This article was published last Summer.

The best of the best
#1 Los Angeles Kings
Picks: 133
NHL players: 65
Games: 17,302
Points: 6,505

There's no question LA is one of the best drafting teams.

This is pretty spot on:

The Oilers are pretty difficult to place. No team has gotten more points from homegrown players since 2005, but it's tough to give them too much credit for taking Connor McDavid, Ryan-Nugent Hopkins, or Taylor Hall.

Grabbing Leon Draisaitl with the third-overall pick in 2014 was a heck of a move and Jordan Eberle was a nice pick at 22 in 2008, but a lot of Edmonton's hits have come from that top spot. The Oilers have also whiffed on high picks like Nail Yakupov (1st overall), Jesse Puljujarvi (4th overall), and Magnus Pääjärvi (10th overall).

The Oilers probably should have done more with the bounty bestowed upon them. The are likely closer to the worst drafting team than the best, but when considering they've picked two top-five NHL players, it's tough to put them in the cellar.

 

[kingsfan28]

Todd’s good to go. He’s locked into a $5.5M check for doing nothing the next year. And the worst teams in the league are not going to hire him at this point. So he’s sitting back and waiting for an in season opportunity.

He’s easily top of the list. The only question is how long is the wait. Pittsburgh looks like the prime opportunity. Detroit is probably second, but money may be an issue there as well. After that, maybe Winnipeg if they have a terrible start. The only wild card is if Coach Q agrees to take a low money deal for a massively desperate team.

Q is in the same 5 mil range as Tmac, don't think he'd take a small deal just to coach again. But honestly, I can't see any team taking a chance on him with all the Blackhawk baggage he carries.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Stamkos and Marchessault rejected another team before joining the Predators

NHL insider Frank Seravalli has confirmed that the Anaheim Ducks also offered long-term contracts to both players. According to his sources, the Ducks presented bigger and more lucrative offers, but both players chose Nashville instead. <snip>

Interesting, if true. I'm mildly curious if the Ducks' brass sees their team as a playoff contender this upcoming season. Cursorily looking at their roster, my thought is that at least two of their young guns would have to take pretty major steps forward to even be in that conversation (unless at least a couple of the '23/24 WC playoff take serious steps backwards). Then again, with a truly young team, it's hard to predict when (if) they "pop," right?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is pretty spot on:

The Oilers are pretty difficult to place. No team has gotten more points from homegrown players since 2005, but it's tough to give them too much credit for taking Connor McDavid, Ryan-Nugent Hopkins, or Taylor Hall.

Grabbing Leon Draisaitl with the third-overall pick in 2014 was a heck of a move and Jordan Eberle was a nice pick at 22 in 2008, but a lot of Edmonton's hits have come from that top spot. The Oilers have also whiffed on high picks like Nail Yakupov (1st overall), Jesse Puljujarvi (4th overall), and Magnus Pääjärvi (10th overall).

The Oilers probably should have done more with the bounty bestowed upon them. The are likely closer to the worst drafting team than the best, but when considering they've picked two top-five NHL players, it's tough to put them in the cellar.

I think it's fair to say the Oilers are who I think of when I think of 'bad drafting' team

Their only great players are lottery gifts, and they've blown more lottery picks than they've hit. And they're SO damn lucky Draisaitl fell to them; can you imagine if the oilers grabbed Reinhard, Dal Colle, or Bennett??

And then the real problem--they've gotten next to nothing outside that.

It's like the bizarro Kings, who get so damn much out of depth picks.

 

[johnjm22]

‘Anywhere but Canada’: How a tax ruling could hobble pro teams north of the border

The ruling on John Tavares' signing bonus could have far-reaching implications for future pros contemplating a deal with a Canadian team.

www.nytimes.com

"A key part in Tavares’ decision to sign with Toronto was the belief that a provision in the U.S.-Canada tax treaty commonly used by professional athletes would essentially allow him to pay a lower tax rate on a initial $15M signing bonus."

"Six years later, as the Leafs’ captain enters the final year of that contract, Tavares faces an $8 million tax bill for his homecoming."

"Tavares has disputed the Canada Revenue Agency’s assessment. "

Interesting stuff @Piston

 

[kovacro]

Oilers hire Stan Bowman as new general manager

The Edmonton Oilers have hired Stan Bowman as their new general manager.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[tigermask48]

Oilers hire Stan Bowman as new general manager

The Edmonton Oilers have hired Stan Bowman as their new general manager.

www.sportsnet.ca

Of course it's the Oilers... just 2 years after the charges against Daryl Katz for paying an underage girl for sex were dropped. So you can see how Katz probably sees nothing wrong with Bowman and what happened.

This is one of those stories that you look at, and just go "that's gross, and feels bad."

 

[King'sPawn]

Oilers hire Stan Bowman as new general manager

The Edmonton Oilers have hired Stan Bowman as their new general manager.

www.sportsnet.ca

Of course it's the Oilers... just 2 years after the charges against Daryl Katz for paying an underage girl for sex were dropped. So you can see how Katz probably sees nothing wrong with Bowman and what happened.

This is one of those stories that you look at, and just go "that's gross, and feels bad."

It's stuff like this that has the Oilers as one of my least favorite teams. It has little to do with rivalries.

 

[kingsholygrail]

They hired him because he won a few Stanley Cups.

 

[tigermask48]

Which is kind of the problem with the original suspensions. If any of those suspended actually cared or learned anything from what happened in Chicago they would never have anything to do with NHL players again.

None of those involved cared about Kyle Beach when they knew what was going on back in 2010. They only cared once "we" ie the public knew what happened.
In my opinion, you don't get to come back from that. You've already proven the kind of person you are.