Around the league part 2

[EbonyRaptor]

Now that's what you call a beat down right there ... thank you sir, may I have another.

 

[Statto]

That’s awful. Get well soon GV.

I kept it short as I didn’t want open the door to speculation but some of the posts have made me reconsider. An enlarged spleen is potentially very serious. It messes with blood chemistry and can have increased risk of bleeding. Whilst it can be as the result of an injury it can also be a symptom of some pretty scary stuff. It’s a concern to me that they’ve disclosed the issue.

So for me this Is one of those things that means hockey and trades are nor relevant. I just hope Vilardi is ok and his health issues are short term and not too serious.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

GBH's next sentence in your quote summarizes a point I have said many times.

The Rangers have had issues developing forwards. It's not a Kings exclusive issue.

But pay attention to this: "there is no one size fits all for development no matter what people here want you to believe."

I have said multiple times there are times variety is appropriate. But the Kings take the slow boil approach for all. Vilardi, Byfield, Kaliyev, Fagemo, JAD, etc ALL started out in the bottom-6 and had to play a certain way to earn more time.

So, rushing all players, or slow-cooking all players, is a flawed plan. Both the Rangers and Kings seem to follow their own rigid development plans with flawed results.

Have they taken the slow boil for ALL forwards though? Or is that argument of slow boiling meaning bottom six on nhl teams and not in ahl etc?

 

[King'sPawn]

Have they taken the slow boil for ALL forwards though? Or is that argument of slow boiling meaning bottom six on nhl teams and not in ahl etc?

It's not just my opinion - Mark Yannetti says that's how they like to develop their prospects. But to me, I consider slow-boiling to mean keep a player from being put into a more challenging situation until they meet a higher-than-average threshold of being adept at their current level of play. So, that could mean keeping a player in the AHL for an extended period of time before they play in the NHL, or playing in the NHL in reduced minutes as a role player before putting them in a suitable role to match their skillset. That's my definition. I can't speak for others.

As far as when to apply it - it definitely varies. As you mentioned, there's not "one" right way that works for everyone. There may be times when slow-boiling a high-talent player is the best thing for him. We aren't sixth-dimension beings where we can peek and exist in alternate realities, so unfortunately, I can't say definitively how much better Byfield would be if he had more minutes earlier (if he would even be better).

But what I can say, and McLellan agreed with it, is that once he was put in a position of trust with Kopitar and Kempe, his confidence grew exponentially and his game grew a lot. And we've watched it grow this season. I'm sure you saw the difference in his game as well, where he was otherwise timid in his approach the first half of last season - then a switch was flipped. Did Byfield benefit more from playing single digit minutes multiple times as recently as last season? Is Turcotte benefitting from averaging 9 minutes a night as a 23 year-old first round pick?

Here's an example of a couple prospects: Samuel Helenius and Andre Lee. Both are very big players but aren't major scorers. I never expect them to be. If and when they get an opportunity, I'm not going to bemoan them playing in the bottom-six. They're bottom-six type of players. They provide grit, forechecking skills, toughness, and defensive acumen.

But then look at a player like Ryan Conmy. He's still years away from even sniffing the NHL. But he's a 5'10 offensive forward, having a balance of sniping and passing ability. Will it be in his best interest to start his NHL career as a 4th liner, rarely getting puck touches and spending more time bouncing off players he checks? I don't think that does the team or Conmy any favors - when he has the NHL skillset, it would be more beneficial for him to play with other scorers.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's not just my opinion - Mark Yannetti says that's how they like to develop their prospects. But to me, I consider slow-boiling to mean keep a player from being put into a more challenging situation until they meet a higher-than-average threshold of being adept at their current level of play. So, that could mean keeping a player in the AHL for an extended period of time before they play in the NHL, or playing in the NHL in reduced minutes as a role player before putting them in a suitable role to match their skillset. That's my definition. I can't speak for others.

As far as when to apply it - it definitely varies. As you mentioned, there's not "one" right way that works for everyone. There may be times when slow-boiling a high-talent player is the best thing for him. We aren't sixth-dimension beings where we can peek and exist in alternate realities, so unfortunately, I can't say definitively how much better Byfield would be if he had more minutes earlier (if he would even be better).

But what I can say, and McLellan agreed with it, is that once he was put in a position of trust with Kopitar and Kempe, his confidence grew exponentially and his game grew a lot. And we've watched it grow this season. I'm sure you saw the difference in his game as well, where he was otherwise timid in his approach the first half of last season - then a switch was flipped. Did Byfield benefit more from playing single digit minutes multiple times as recently as last season? Is Turcotte benefitting from averaging 9 minutes a night as a 23 year-old first round pick?

Here's an example of a couple prospects: Samuel Helenius and Andre Lee. Both are very big players but aren't major scorers. I never expect them to be. If and when they get an opportunity, I'm not going to bemoan them playing in the bottom-six. They're bottom-six type of players. They provide grit, forechecking skills, toughness, and defensive acumen.

But then look at a player like Ryan Conmy. He's still years away from even sniffing the NHL. But he's a 5'10 offensive forward, having a balance of sniping and passing ability. Will it be in his best interest to start his NHL career as a 4th liner, rarely getting puck touches and spending more time bouncing off players he checks? I don't think that does the team or Conmy any favors - when he has the NHL skillset, it would be more beneficial for him to play with other scorers.

I was asking to qualify my answer, some people think slow boiling is just putting them in the AHL etc,

Honestly too freaking tired to intelligently respond, but agree, there's no way to know what if, so I don't spend a lot of time going down those rabbit holes,

In some ways sometimes players just....click, Tage Thompson, Byfield, hopefully Turcotte puts it together, I think the bus has left for Kaliyev, if he ever does click it will be somewhere else...

 

[bland]

The Kings are exactly where the Hawks would’ve been if Jones, Johnson, and Fleury had worked out and squeaked them into the playoffs. A team with a mostly in or past their prime supporting cast centered around winning another Cup for Kane and Toews. We’ll likely have to trade our versions of Dach and DeBrincat in a couple years as they won’t fit into the next Cup window even though they were just drafted.

The difference is that the Kings would have extended Toews and Kane.

 

[bland]

GBH's next sentence in your quote summarizes a point I have said many times.

The Rangers have had issues developing forwards. It's not a Kings exclusive issue.

But pay attention to this: "there is no one size fits all for development no matter what people here want you to believe."

I have said multiple times there are times variety is appropriate. But the Kings take the slow boil approach for all. Vilardi, Byfield, Kaliyev, Fagemo, JAD, etc ALL started out in the bottom-6 and had to play a certain way to earn more time.

So, rushing all players, or slow-cooking all players, is a flawed plan. Both the Rangers and Kings seem to follow their own rigid development plans with flawed results.

Its not really a player by player issue, its an organizational philosophy to go out and buy roadblocks that prevent the kids that ARE ready to quickly move into the positions that offer the team the best chance to succeed.

And it was all done to augment a roster that did not have any reasonable chance at success without the growth of cost-controlled assets from within. Its all self-imposed when just another two years of patience could have potentially made something special.

 

[King'sPawn]

Its not really a player by player issue, its an organizational philosophy to go out and buy roadblocks that prevent the kids that ARE ready to quickly move into the positions that offer the team the best chance to succeed.

And it was all done to augment a roster that did not have any reasonable chance at success without the growth of cost-controlled assets from within. Its all self-imposed when just another two years of patience could have potentially made something special.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm talking about the mindset of how development should be as a whole, regardless of how competitive a team is.

Whether they get the first overall from being terrible or 32nd overall from winning a cup, there needs to be more flexibility in their approach to development instead of rigidly adhering to slow-boiling prospects.

I 100% agree the Kings rushed out of their rebuild. But there will be a time when the Kings actually are cup contenders again, and I want them to have a more flexible perception of developing players so they can be a competitive organization for a longer period.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Sean Walker has the 1st goal in Oilers Avs.. who had that bet? Edit: has both goals now

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Walker looks good when given confidence and support, imagine that

 

[AbsentMojo]

Walker looks good when given confidence and support, imagine that

He had to be moved to get rid of Cal. And Durzi had to go all to clear cap for his silver bullet(shit) PLD.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Imagine how good Matt Roy will end up being when he leaves in the Summer.

People will say he's basically Shea Weber.

 

[Mattias]

Wayne Simmons announces retirement.

 

[tny760]

Wayne Simmons announces retirement.

weeks after announcing that he's not retired in response to a media comment that he was retired

love it

 

[FrozenKing18]

Ah the Wayne Train finally stops! I really thought we'd see him in a Kings jersey one more time before he retired, but that guy was a Flyer through and through.

 

[King'sPawn]

Good luck to Simmonds.

 

[Surf Nutz]

I was thinking about this too. The Rangers had the #1 and #2 can't miss picks, played them straight out of the draft and they still can't figure it out. Neither has scored more than 20 goals or more than 40 points yet. Fans here and other sites rail on LA's development with certain players every day, but how do you explain what's happening in NY?

They did not afford them the luxury of playing in a developmental league.

PLD ain't going nowhere and if you can't deal with it better pick a different team, sport and board.

I think he is way better than VIlardi and his injuries.

Trading Kupari , who still is not doing much and Iafallo, allowed room for others to take on bigger roles or be on the Kings.

Byfield, Moore, Laferriere, and Kaliyev , who was mishandled.

Comments here seem like single person derangement syndrome.

Saw it with Kempe and Byfield in the past.

Now it's Blake, PLD, Doughty and Kaliyev.

Ripped individually at different intervals.

 

[Schmooley]

PLD ain't going nowhere and if you can't deal with it better pick a different team, sport and board.

They tried to trade him already at the deadline. If he doesnt have a good playoff its very possible though a buyout seems highly unlikely.

 

[Surf Nutz]

They tried to trade him already at the deadline. If he doesnt have a good playoff its very possible though a buyout seems highly unlikely.

Don't believe everything you read.

You wanna bet on that?

 

[Schmooley]

Don't believe everything you read.

You wanna bet on that?

Bet on what?

 

[Surf Nutz]

Bet on what?

PLD being traded.
He will not be.

 

[Herby]

Nice to see Surfin Glen Murray is back here posting, telling us how anyone who opposes Blake or is angry with PLD should "go find a new team to support" and telling us that the Rangers disappointments are because they didn't have enough AHL time.

13 of the Top 20 scorers in the NHL played ZERO AHL games, but yes, the AHL is a requirement to be a top player, sure thing Glen.

PLD being traded.
He will not be.

Blake's biggest defender indirectly tells us that Blake's biggest acquisition is unmovable 9 months later.

 

[Herby]

RIP Chris Simon, another tough guy gone to soon.

NHL enforcers have a similar life expectancy to pro-wrestlers.

 

[Statto]

RIP Chris Simon, another tough guy gone to soon.

NHL enforcers have a similar life expectancy to pro-wrestlers.

Another one… too many.

Hopefully this trend wont continue with the decline in the number of true enforcers.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Nice to see Surfin Glen Murray is back here posting, telling us how anyone who opposes Blake or is angry with PLD should "go find a new team to support" and telling us that the Rangers disappointments are because they didn't have enough AHL time.

13 of the Top 20 scorers in the NHL played ZERO AHL games, but yes, the AHL is a requirement to be a top player, sure thing Glen.



Blake's biggest defender indirectly tells us that Blake's biggest acquisition is unmovable 9 months later.

Thanks Herby

Nice to see the guy from Michigan that inexplicably claims to be a Kings fan, keep his comment a reasonable lenghth.

I am not telling anyone to do anything.

For instance I just liked Big Kings Wussy Kings comment because it was true and not over repeated.

I am responding to people repeating the same things over and over both on their own and in conjunction with others and the overcooked negativity.

At this point the oven is on fire!

The AHL is a developmental league and the NHL is not.

As Daryl Sutter surmised.

I respect you for going against an icon but I will stick with the familial hockey icon's take as I told you more than once.

Sure the very tip top players in the league may not need AHL time.

But as has been shown over and over and most recently by the NYR, players on tiers lower than 1a, often have problems without being correctly seasoned.

Edmonton's 10 years of #1 picks comes to mind.

I don't blindly defend Blake when I agree he is wrong.

Team toughness and coaching hires being 2 examples.

Cut the surfer hate, we are even in Michigan surfing lakes and have nothing to do with the guy that stole your girlfriend in high school. Lol!

No need to repeat your previous dissertations, I tried to read a few of them already but they were spun too long and worn out.