Around the league part 2

[Herby]

Every team in the league has Fiala type of players. This belief that every player has to be well rounded and that offensive players aren't going to have some deficiencies is unfair. There are very few Kopitar players in the league, and they aren't being traded for a prospect and a draft pick.

This organization for to long ignored and minimized players like Fiala both at the draft and in the summers, it's how you end up using 1st round picks on players like Lewis, Turcotte, Forbort etc. Because they passed up on higher offensive ceiling guys because they were concerned about their deficiencies (and apparently not being able to score isn't a deficiency)

I was a huge fan of Faber, he will be an amazing d-man for a long time in this league, but the Kings needed to get an offensive player like Fiala, yes he is far from a perfect player, but we needed an imperfect offensive player and we had enough well rounded guys who can't shoot a puck into the Pacific.

 

[shuchukfan]

I wish the Fiala that hit Matt Roy would show up. Not to give anyone a concussion, but that physicality would be great.

 

[Schrute farms]

Yeah, he’s really proving that your theory of him having no plan is actually working out. Who woulda thunk?

Can’t you guys just ever live in the moment, enjoy when things are good and realize that acquiring and/or developing the perfect players at any given time isn’t as easy as doing it on Xbox?

Wouldn't be weird and really cool if our brains could have & process more than one thought?
Like being able to enjoy something yet also do some critical thinking at the same time.
It would also be totally cool if there was a special place on the internet which has a platform that enabled people share differing thoughts, opinions on all things related to your favorite sports team in real time. Kind of like how professional sports teams / GMs do with constantly critical thinking and evaluations throughout the year that change up/down depending on team performance, injuries, prospect development (or lack there of), etc. Maybe one day Axl....one day...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Every team in the league has Fiala type of players. This belief that every player has to be well rounded and that offensive players aren't going to have some deficiencies is unfair. There are very few Kopitar players in the league, and they aren't being traded for a prospect and a draft pick.

This organization for to long ignored and minimized players like Fiala both at the draft and in the summers, it's how you end up using 1st round picks on players like Lewis, Turcotte, Forbort etc. Because they passed up on higher offensive ceiling guys because they were concerned about their deficiencies (and apparently not being able to score isn't a deficiency)

I was a huge fan of Faber, he will be an amazing d-man for a long time in this league, but the Kings needed to get an offensive player like Fiala, yes he is far from a perfect player, but we needed an imperfect offensive player and we had enough well rounded guys who can't shoot a puck into the Pacific.

I don't disagree. I think you and bland are both right here.

Kings long passed over unique offensive talents in the name of 'fit' over all. And heck, until recently, they even had trouble with the homegrown unique talents (Kaliyev) in similar manner.

But I also think they're in danger of swinging too far the other way, lacking a cohesive vision, putting together a bunch of talented players that may not work just because more offense solves things while looking past other issues (goaltending, notably)...and then locking into immediate max deals is kind of insane.


On the flipside of that--I like what we have going at forward right now. There's enough of a variety of 'kinds' of players that we shoudln't be held off the scoresheet much. The chaos of the Fiala line, the controlled possession of the Kopitar gang, the two way instant cycle punch of the danault line, the all out buzzsaws on the 4th. But winning has a habit of masking the issues, too.

 

[unicornpig]

Hoven?

That's been the line on Fiala since Nashville. Despite all the semantic arguments about point totals, Kevin Fiala is not a first liner. Never has been, and won't be one until he changes his game. He puts up streaky points while diving, taking stupid retaliation penalties and letting his brain fart its way around the ice in all three zones. You cannot rely on Kevin Fiala.

Theoretically he and Dubois should be ideal for each other. He creates really intelligent traffic and opens up lanes which should be exploited, but Fiala keeps choosing to one man band it instead. Hell, the only time that line is really dangerous is when Laferriere carries the puck. Dubois looks just as lost in that shuffle as Byfield did with Athanasiou.

There are a lot of very, very good players who move every year. Its disappointing to know that Blake paid OVER premium prices to land two guys who can't carry a team. They are still going to live and die by what the kids bring, even after all this money spent.

The only premium asset was vilardi and shocking injured again

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Wouldn't be weird and really cool if our brains could have & process more than one thought?
Like being able to enjoy something yet also do some critical thinking at the same time.
It would also be totally cool if there was a special place on the internet which has a platform that enabled people share differing thoughts, opinions on all things related to your favorite sports team in real time. Kind of like how professional sports teams / GMs do with constantly critical thinking and evaluations throughout the year that change up/down depending on team performance, injuries, prospect development (or lack there of), etc. Maybe one day Axl....one day...

So 'critical thinking' implies that you have actual insight into Blake's thought process and exactly what his plan is or isn't? Because that is what you are saying, you stated that the GM of an NHL franchise has zero plan....and you've derived that from your astute critical thinking skills, right?

 

[Schrute farms]

I sometimes wonder what version of Earth you preside on. Like you randomly & unknowingly wondered onto here at HF Forums. More importantly, i wonder why i keep occasionally trying here when i know beforehand your response -- it's like an auto generated bot response.

 

[King'sPawn]

Hoven?

That's been the line on Fiala since Nashville.

I mentioned Hoven as a recent and fairly easy identifiable source when it was brought up. I didn't mean to imply he was the first and/or only one to come up with it. When possible, I like to provide sources so others can refer to it if they like. Also because I like to try to differentiate when I have personal opinions versus having a frame of reference elsewhere.

 

[Herby]

I don't disagree. I think you and bland are both right here.

Kings long passed over unique offensive talents in the name of 'fit' over all. And heck, until recently, they even had trouble with the homegrown unique talents (Kaliyev) in similar manner.

But I also think they're in danger of swinging too far the other way, lacking a cohesive vision, putting together a bunch of talented players that may not work just because more offense solves things while looking past other issues (goaltending, notably)...and then locking into immediate max deals is kind of insane.


On the flipside of that--I like what we have going at forward right now. There's enough of a variety of 'kinds' of players that we shoudln't be held off the scoresheet much. The chaos of the Fiala line, the controlled possession of the Kopitar gang, the two way instant cycle punch of the danault line, the all out buzzsaws on the 4th. But winning has a habit of masking the issues, too.

I think the issue with Fiala and those who opposed the trade is an inability to accept the road they went down.

I think bland (and plz correct me if I'm wrong) and some others wanted to continue the rebuild, give large roles to the current youth and bring in more youth through the draft, and that is fine, I wished they had done a traditional rebuild as well because it's been historically much more successful than the path they went down. But once they committed to trying to win again with 11 and 8 they had to make moves to get better in the immediate, and Fiala made them a better team for the next 3 seasons than Faber and a 1st were going to do.

The same is true of the PLD trade, no team is winning a SC with Danault as your 2C and nothing behind him, they correctly identified that getting a true 2C was the most pressing need the team faced, and acted by getting the best C available last summer.

The Fiala trade scares me because I do think Faber will be a star defensive stopper for the next dozen years. The PLD trade I hope will be fine either way because he is young enough to still be effective post 11/8 and I don't think any of the pieces given up in that trade will end up being anywhere close to as valuable as Faber will be. You can get an Iafallo type every July 1st for only cash, and Vilardi has injury concerns and concerns that last year was an outlier based on an unsustainable shooting percentage.

 

[Fishhead]

Stutzle only scores in blowouts.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[kingsholygrail]

How did they find him with all those lakes up there?

 

[Sol]

I’d lose so much respect for the Kings if this happened to the goalie and not one of the players went to check on him. It’s absolutely unfathomable that the only players around the Sharks goalie are Canucks that are checking on him. Disgraceful.

 

[bland]

The only premium asset was vilardi and shocking injured again

No, 8 years of $8.5 million in cap space was the premium asset lost in that deal

 

[kingsholygrail]

No, 8 years of $8.5 million in cap space was the premium asset lost in that deal

Technically the contract wasn't part of the trade.

 

[Telos]

No, 8 years of $8.5 million in cap space was the premium asset lost in that deal

And the Kings becoming one of the best in the league early in the season is what was gained. PLD hasn't blown the doors off of anything with his production, but I don't think the team's success and his joining the team are mutually exclusive. He opens up a lot of space for the rest of the lineup on every line. I think people are underestimating the impact of the deal, what he does to opposing lineups and how they have to defend the team, and also for those spots to open up for others on the team to step up to the next level.

 

[King'sPawn]

And the Kings becoming one of the best in the league early in the season is what was gained. PLD hasn't blown the doors off of anything with his production, but I don't think the team's success and his joining the team are mutually exclusive. He opens up a lot of space for the rest of the lineup on every line. I think people are underestimating the impact of the deal, what he does to opposing lineups and how they have to defend the team, and also for those spots to open up for others on the team to step up to the next level.

I'm not disputing he's had a positive impact. But Vilardi and Fiala had pretty good chemistry, and PLD doesn't have the chemistry with Fiala yet. Who's to say that the growth of the other players traded away wouldn't also have been a matchup nightmare for teams?

Byfield, Kupari, Kempe, Vilardi have all played center at the NHL level, and Moore was a center in the olympics.

I know none have been exceptional at center, but I don't think PLD has been, either. At least not on the Kings.

I just don't believe he was the best (or at the very least only) answer. Especially for what was traded and cap committed to him.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I just don't believe he was the best (or at the very least only) answer. Especially for what was traded and cap committed to him.

Maybe give it a season before you come to a conclusion. Think back to conclusions made in preseason, you know like this team is garbage etc....and now look at how far they've come in 10 games!

 

[Telos]

I'm not disputing he's had a positive impact. But Vilardi and Fiala had pretty good chemistry, and PLD doesn't have the chemistry with Fiala yet. Who's to say that the growth of the other players traded away wouldn't also have been a matchup nightmare for teams?

Byfield, Kupari, Kempe, Vilardi have all played center at the NHL level, and Moore was a center in the olympics.

I know none have been exceptional at center, but I don't think PLD has been, either. At least not on the Kings.

I just don't believe he was the best (or at the very least only) answer. Especially for what was traded and cap committed to him.

I think that is fair, but it is still too early as well (at least for me). It is definitely arguable that there may have been better options, but at the same time the team's logic hasn't been disproven either in that he is a young giant center that is hard to defend against and by adding him we are now a deep team that can run all four lines, create havoc for other teams, and find success anywhere throughout the forward lineup.

PLD hasn't been scoring on his own, but I do think that he is a key piece in the Jenga tower and messing with him could easily topple the whole thing. There just needs to be more games and time to assess the deal and his play/impact. Not that freely arguing and discussing it at any time isn't the purpose of this board I am just pointing out that while there have been considerable costs surrounding PLD, the performance of the team currently is a considerable gain and I am sure his impact on that will be debatable to all end.

 

[Herby]

Stutzle only scores in blowouts.

I still can't believe people actually said that about Carter.

This is great to see. It was tough to watch Richards his final couple of seasons in the league but he was an important part of both teams and should be honored.

I don't know of a single player who was more screwed over by two organizations than this guy, between the personal stuff against his character in Philadelphia by Holmgrem and members of that organization and the trading him a couple of years into that huge deal, and the Kings attempting to rob him of tens of millions of dollars, he faced a lot of shitty situations in his career from two organizations he gave a lot to.

The attempted termination and the Voynov situation were two of the uglier moments in the history of this franchise.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I still can't believe people actually said that about Carter.

This is great to see. It was tough to watch Richards his final couple of seasons in the league but he was an important part of both teams and should be honored.

I don't know of a single player who was more screwed over by two organizations than this guy, between the personal stuff against his character in Philadelphia by Holmgrem and members of that organization and the trading him a couple of years into that huge deal, and the Kings attempting to rob him of tens of millions of dollars, he faced a lot of shitty situations in his career from two organizations he gave a lot to.

The attempted termination and the Voynov situation were two of the uglier moments in the history of this franchise.

Literally went from the highest of highs from 2012-2014 to the lowest of lows from 2015-2017. Lombardi wasn’t kidding about the struggles of maintaining a winning team. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong after the second Cup, and it took the team about 8 seasons to finally bounce back to a respectable team.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I don't know of a single player who was more screwed over by two organizations than this guy, between the personal stuff against his character in Philadelphia by Holmgrem and members of that organization and the trading him a couple of years into that huge deal, and the Kings attempting to rob him of tens of millions of dollars, he faced a lot of shitty situations in his career from two organizations he gave a lot to.

Wait.....WHAT?!

 

[bland]

And the Kings becoming one of the best in the league early in the season is what was gained. PLD hasn't blown the doors off of anything with his production, but I don't think the team's success and his joining the team are mutually exclusive. He opens up a lot of space for the rest of the lineup on every line. I think people are underestimating the impact of the deal, what he does to opposing lineups and how they have to defend the team, and also for those spots to open up for others on the team to step up to the next level.

You could have accomplished all of that with a UFA signing of $4.5 million or less on a short term contract. Dubois himself has been a terrible disappointment, and it sure seems like folks are letting the idea of him excuse his poor performance.

He will go on a heater soon, then cool and live off that hot spurt for a while until the frustration mounts again. Rinse, repeat, for 8 years.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

You could have accomplished all of that with a UFA signing of $4.5 million or less on a short term contract. Dubois himself has been a terrible disappointment, and it sure seems like folks are letting the idea of him excuse his poor performance.

Absolutely ABSURD. Not a single player on this team (except maybe Copley) has been anywhere near a 'disappointment'...that is the reason why they have a 8-2-2 record to start the season.

Dubois is just fine -- yah, he doesn't have a ton of points to show for it, but he's making things happen. Maybe you aren't actually watching the games?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You could have accomplished all of that with a UFA signing of $4.5 million or less on a short term contract. Dubois himself has been a terrible disappointment, and it sure seems like folks are letting the idea of him excuse his poor performance.

He will go on a heater soon, then cool and live off that hot spurt for a while until the frustration mounts again. Rinse, repeat, for 8 years.

Who could you have gotten at 4.5 million....this I gotta hear....