Around the League delayed season edition

[KINGS17]

Is this a gotcha? The NHL has made a lot of mistakes in the past, let’s celebrate making the right choices moving forward.

I hope that the Meyer-Crothers family can find some justice knowing their child’s tormenter isn’t rewarded for his abhorrent behaviors.

I hope that Mitchell Miller learns that his actions have consequences and seeks help for why he felt and acted the way that he did. He’s still young, and I hope his actions don’t follow him for the rest of his life. I think forgiveness can be earned.

I hope the NHL and its teams continues to root out bad behavior. I supported Voynov returning to LA for a long time, but I’ve changed my opinion on that, too. Having a platform is a privilege that should not be taken lightly. Abusing that privilege should come with swift, decisive action. I’m not saying that Miller and Voynov are or will always be bad people, and I agree that they made mistakes and deserve second chances, but those chances don’t need to be in the National Hockey League. They can go back to school or find a job like the rest of us. Their hockey talent doesn’t grant them free passes to do bad things.

We aren’t cancelling anyone, they’re cancelling themselves, and that can’t be overstated.

No one cancels themselves. Society makes that decision. Individuals which make up the society decide if a particular person has done enough to deserve a second chance. It's a cop out to say the kid did it to himself. You have a right to your own mind on this, but own the fact you have decided he doesn't deserve to play in the NHL.

 

[KINGS17]

No question that what Mitchell Miller did to Isaiah Meyer-Crothers was horrific and shocks the conscience. Others have more eloquently stated how disgusting those acts are.

I choose to believe Isaiah's mom when she says the taunting continued until at least 2 years ago. Why? Because the initial police report states that Mitchell Miller lied about committing those undefensible acts. That is a prior instance of material falsehood about the abuse. There is no such indication that the victim's family has ever lied.

While I believe in second chances, I also believe that such chances have to be earned. There is no indication whatsoever that Miller has earned it. By all accounts, he has consistently done only the minimum required of him by the criminal court. He has shown by all accounts no remorse. The court judge found that he was just sorry he was caught.

The letters he sent to all 31 teams was to me extremely self serving. Even the statement he had issued through the Coyotes still indicates a refusal to take full responsibility for his actions and the extreme harm he committed against Isaiah.



[emphasis added]

Coyotes prospect addresses disturbing racism, bullying incidents

I have emphasized a couple things.

First, to call it an incident completely minimizes what happened. He's not owning up to it. This was criminal abuse, racism, and assualt. It occurred over a period of 7-9 years. It was not a one off as the word "incident" implies. It was premeditated and would have continued had Miller not been caught.

Second, he states he wants to be a leader for the cause and to help end bullying and racism. Such a statement is on the surface plausible. But then to be a leader means fully acknowledging his actions, feeling remorse, and above all be willing to discuss such behavior and say how wrong it was.



From the above report, Miller was simply not willing to talk about what he had done to Isaiah. And it wasn't just one team saying this. It was multiple teams. Reports are at least 1/3 of teams had him as a Do Not Draft. That's not being a leader against bullying and racism.

Thus, his statement to me reads that he was simply telling people what he thought they wanted to hear.

Miller minimizing what he had done to Isaiah, showing no remorse, telling teams what he thinks they want to hear, writing letters to teams apologizing but not to Isaiah... It's not a 14 year old doing this but a fully legally recognized adult.

Miller is not being denied a career. He has any other fields he could go into. His hockey career isn't even over. Plenty of NHL players go through the college route and then sign on with a team after graduation. More players do it that way than are drafted in rounds 3-7.

He has those 4 years of college to prove has changed, to prove he has remorse, to do more than just the minimum required, to prove he is a better person than what he has shown so far.

Now this is a well reasoned position, and I appreciate it.

 

[Master Yoda]

Is this a gotcha? The NHL has made a lot of mistakes in the past, let’s celebrate making the right choices moving forward.

I hope that the Meyer-Crothers family can find some justice knowing their child’s tormenter isn’t rewarded for his abhorrent behaviors.

I hope that Mitchell Miller learns that his actions have consequences and seeks help for why he felt and acted the way that he did. He’s still young, and I hope his actions don’t follow him for the rest of his life. I think forgiveness can be earned.

I hope the NHL and its teams continues to root out bad behavior. I supported Voynov returning to LA for a long time, but I’ve changed my opinion on that, too. Having a platform is a privilege that should not be taken lightly. Abusing that privilege should come with swift, decisive action. I’m not saying that Miller and Voynov are or will always be bad people, and I agree that they made mistakes and deserve second chances, but those chances don’t need to be in the National Hockey League. They can go back to school or find a job like the rest of us. Their hockey talent doesn’t grant them free passes to do bad things.

We aren’t cancelling anyone, they’re cancelling themselves, and that can’t be overstated.

I agree about needing to pay the price. But I think a part of that is the process the person goes through within our justice system.

They have done their time based on the judgement from the jury and/or judge who have far more knowledge about their specific cases than the general public.
Obviously, the justice system isn't perfect, and I'm sure for the victims, sometimes the punishment isn't nearly enough.
But didn't we as a society, agree to have these judges and juries make rulings and decide whatever punishment these people deserve?
And are we sure this Miller kid isn't trying to make himself a better person?
Do we want to stop him from trying to earn a living doing what he does best and to contribute to the society?

Legally speaking, Miller and Voynov have both paid the price.
For people to say "this guy deserves to be out of the NHL for X amount of years". What exactly are they basing this on?
And what makes the NHL so special that we need to prevent this guy from playing in the NHL but not another minor hockey league?
If what he did was so bad that he shouldn't be allowed in the NHL, then why should he be allowed to work as a stock broker?
Is it only to act as a punishment so he doesn't have a chance to earn a good living?
What if he's a changed man now and he grows and becomes a star NHL player and he becomes a great role model against bullying?
Do we want to deny him the opportunity to prove himself that he's become a better person?

We can most certainly have our opinions and discuss them, but that should not give us the ability to cancel people, or stop people from doing X, based on what we read on the internet.

 

[kingsfan28]

Remember when everyone would crap on how mismanaged EDM was, the Coyotes are now like, hold my beer.

How do they make such a terrible mistake without talking to others and doing any sort of background check? Lombardi passed on so many good players because of the slightest character flaw, and I imagine Blake does his homework too. The new Coyotes gm is like, oh he's good and don't see any issues, lets draft him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree about needing to pay the price. But I think a part of that is the process the person goes through within our justice system.

They have done their time based on the judgement from the jury and/or judge who have far more knowledge about their specific cases than the general public.
Obviously, the justice system isn't perfect, and I'm sure for the victims, sometimes the punishment isn't nearly enough.
But didn't we as a society, agree to have these judges and juries make rulings and decide whatever punishment these people deserve?
And are we sure this Miller kid isn't trying to make himself a better person?
Do we want to stop him from trying to earn a living doing what he does best and to contribute to the society?

Legally speaking, Miller and Voynov have both paid the price.
For people to say "this guy deserves to be out of the NHL for X amount of years". What exactly are they basing this on?
And what makes the NHL so special that we need to prevent this guy from playing in the NHL but not another minor hockey league?
If what he did was so bad that he shouldn't be allowed in the NHL, then why should he be allowed to work as a stock broker?
Is it only to act as a punishment so he doesn't have a chance to earn a good living?
What if he's a changed man now and he grows and becomes a star NHL player and he becomes a great role model against bullying?
Do we want to deny him the opportunity to prove himself that he's become a better person?

We can most certainly have our opinions and discuss them, but that should not give us the ability to cancel people, or stop people from doing X, based on what we read on the internet.

I appreciate this post and you've framed some really good questions so i don't mean this to shortchange that by sounding blunt, but re: the boldfaced, even if the justice system does its job, employers still have every right to terminate an employee who they think is making them look bad, and some professions have associations that disallow certain crimes/actions from entry. Again I know that's oversimplified and doesn't respond to your whole post in the fully-thought-out way it probably deserves, but that's really at the heart of it. Professional athlete is a very public job (yes, even with the obvious Arizona joke to be made) and as a public figure they are held to different standards of character (again, whether they are in all cases or should be is a different question--but I think we'll all broadly agree on the general thought).

 

[Stimpythecat]

I don't get just how they didn't do their due diligence and talk to Isaiah's family to see not only if they were ok with it but also to see if the abuse continued.

AZ was just trying to pull a fast one and snag a 2nd round talent in the 4th round. I think they were hoping no one was paying attention.

I think they were desperate since they didn't have a pick in the first 3 rounds and only have a 2021 2nd in the first three rounds next draft.

Well, now they have nothing to show for their first 4 rounds of picks and have to do major damage control.

 

[Lt Dan]

I don't get just how they didn't do their due diligence and talk to Isaiah's family to see not only if they were ok with it but also to see if the abuse continued.

AZ was just trying to pull a fast one and snag a 2nd round talent in the 4th round. I think they were hoping no one was paying attention.

I think they were desperate since they didn't have a pick in the first 3 rounds and only have a 2021 2nd in the first three rounds next draft.

Well, now they have nothing to show for their first 4 rounds of picks and have to do major damage control.

Arizona whizzed on the electric fence

 

[Brodeur]

How do they make such a terrible mistake without talking to others and doing any sort of background check?

They were aware of the incident(s), they just didn't contact the victim's family. According to the mom, none of the NHL teams reached out to them so Arizona wasn't alone in doing that part of the background check. They decided to roll the dice on a 2nd round talent in the 4th round and hoped the PR blowback wouldn't be that big for a mid-round pick. Miller wrote a letter to every NHL team before the draft about the incident. Some teams (at least 10 according to Frank Seravelli) interviewed him and decided he was a 'do not draft.'

The new Coyotes gm is like, oh he's good and don't see any issues, lets draft him.

As others mentioned, Bill Armstrong wasn't supposed to be involved with the Coyotes draft since he was St. Louis' director of amateur scouting. When those sort of guys get hired right before the draft, there's usually an agreement that they can't do the draft with their new team since they have knowledge of the prior team's list.

There's the possibility that Armstrong was pissed when the Coyotes staff took Miller.

 

[Kingspiracy]

The yotes do seem like a shit organisation, i think they need to distance themselves from the brown unis too.

 

[Steve Zissou]

What a shit show this has turned into. Arizona is still a POS franchise, it would seem.

 

[FrozenKing18]

I finally got caught up in this Miller situation. I cant believe some people are passing this off as "He was a kid/teenager/14". At 14 years old, this guy didn't know the difference between right and wrong? At what age was this supposed to click in his head?

 

[HeadInjury]

My lasting memory of Shane Doan is not on the ice. Days after being eliminated by the Kings in 2012 he was at the rink in Harbor City (The Skating Edge). I think his son had a game there. My son was in Vic Venasky's hockey clinic at the time. Doan agreed to pose for individual pictures with every kid who wanted one. Signed autographs. He was laid back, friendly, and took time to have little conversations with the boys. Lots of people there were in Kings gear. Had to sting a little, but he was pure class.

 

[Master Yoda]

I appreciate this post and you've framed some really good questions so i don't mean this to shortchange that by sounding blunt, but re: the boldfaced, even if the justice system does its job, employers still have every right to terminate an employee who they think is making them look bad, and some professions have associations that disallow certain crimes/actions from entry. Again I know that's oversimplified and doesn't respond to your whole post in the fully-thought-out way it probably deserves, but that's really at the heart of it. Professional athlete is a very public job (yes, even with the obvious Arizona joke to be made) and as a public figure they are held to different standards of character (again, whether they are in all cases or should be is a different question--but I think we'll all broadly agree on the general thought).

I absolutely agree that employers have every right to terminate or choose not to hire people for various reasons.
Where I disagree, and is the case in this Miller situation, is that the employer had done it's due diligence on the potential employee, and hired/drafted Miller, but media pressure forced them to terminate the employee. I'm probably giving too much credit to the Arizona management here, but the point is they had made a decision to draft Miller to give him a chance to prove himself.
And then he was promptly cancelled.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

My lasting memory of Shane Doan is not on the ice. Days after being eliminated by the Kings in 2012 he was at the rink in Harbor City (The Skating Edge). I think his son had a game there. My son was in Vic Venasky's hockey clinic at the time. Doan agreed to pose for individual pictures with every kid who wanted one. Signed autographs. He was laid back, friendly, and took time to have little conversations with the boys. Lots of people there were in Kings gear. Had to sting a little, but he was pure class.

I have nothing against Doan for how he played or what he said. He was emotional and reeling, and the reporters baited him into unloading.

Smith on the other hand? f*** that guy.

 

[Bandit]

I absolutely agree that employers have every right to terminate or choose not to hire people for various reasons.
Where I disagree, and is the case in this Miller situation, is that the employer had done it's due diligence on the potential employee, and hired/drafted Miller, but media pressure forced them to terminate the employee. I'm probably giving too much credit to the Arizona management here, but the point is they had made a decision to draft Miller to give him a chance to prove himself.
And then he was promptly cancelled.

That's one possibility. Another is that after hearing the Mom's statement, the GM went and talked to this guy about it and he said "f*** that n*****". Another is that the scouts made the decision to draft him and when the owner found out he said get rid of this kid. There's more than one possibility, we'll probably never know the truth.

I do agree that if it was simply media pressure then that is really pathetic given all their blustering about leading the charge for change, helping the kid, etc. but this feels like something else is at work.

 

[Statto]

They were aware but they (along with any other NHL team) didn't contact the victim's family. I think they were hoping the PR problem wouldn't arise to this level. If people on the prospects board were talking about this months before the draft, NHL teams certainly were aware. Seemed like a good chunk of teams were unimpressed after interviewing him and had him as a 'do not draft' according to Frank Seravelli. I just find it odd that it took three weeks after the Draft for the story to get traction in the mainstream.

From a pure talent perspective, some thought Miller had 2nd round ability so the Arizona scouts were thinking of it as a value pick. One article noted that Arizona's list under Chayka had Miller as a DND but something changed when new scouts were brought in with the regime change. I'd be curious how much input their incoming GM was aware of the list. Since they hired Bill Armstrong from St. Louis this close to the draft, there was an agreement that he would have no involvement with Arizona's picks. I like to picture a scenario where he was watching only to be angered by the pick that he didn't support privately but would now have to feign support publicly.

I’d guess that some part of the 3 week delay were the writers properly investigating the story once the outrage from the fans started to be clear. They seem to have done quite a wide ranging investigation and have spoken to quite a few sources.

 

[bland]

I absolutely agree that employers have every right to terminate or choose not to hire people for various reasons.
Where I disagree, and is the case in this Miller situation, is that the employer had done it's due diligence on the potential employee, and hired/drafted Miller, but media pressure forced them to terminate the employee. I'm probably giving too much credit to the Arizona management here, but the point is they had made a decision to draft Miller to give him a chance to prove himself.
And then he was promptly cancelled.

Blaming the media, social or otherwise, is a pure cop out. It is their purpose to inform the public. People make up their minds upon receipt of that information. Of course some of it is bullshit, but that is where our personal responsibility enters the picture. We can choose to believe, ignore or further research any subject we want. It is just a tool that WE use at our discretion, it doesn't have any more power than what we as individuals give it.

People learned via the media what this kid did to another kid. Suggesting that they couldn't decide on their own whether or not his actions were worth denouncing until learning about it is perfectly accurate - how the **** am I supposed to know what one kid did to another in Ohio unless its reported? It wasn't a national story until he was drafted. There is no slant here, people are rightfully horrified at these actions and let it be known the only way they could.

 

[Lt Dan]

That's one possibility. Another is that after hearing the Mom's statement, the GM went and talked to this guy about it and he said "f*** that n*****". Another is that the scouts made the decision to draft him and when the owner found out he said get rid of this kid. There's more than one possibility, we'll probably never know the truth.

I do agree that if it was simply media pressure then that is really pathetic given all their blustering about leading the charge for change, helping the kid, etc. but this feels like something else is at work.

Oh I agree
I have no evidence, just a hunch, but I have a feeling that Yotes' ownership and/or management got a call from the League once this story hit the press

 

[Bandit]

Oh I agree
I have no evidence, just a hunch, but I have a feeling that Yotes' ownership and/or management got a call from the League once this story hit the press

Also a possibility. The league might have been hoping nobody would draft him and they wouldn’t have to get involved.

 

[Master Yoda]

Blaming the media, social or otherwise, is a pure cop out. It is their purpose to inform the public. People make up their minds upon receipt of that information. Of course some of it is bullshit, but that is where our personal responsibility enters the picture. We can choose to believe, ignore or further research any subject we want. It is just a tool that WE use at our discretion, it doesn't have any more power than what we as individuals give it.

People learned via the media what this kid did to another kid. Suggesting that they couldn't decide on their own whether or not his actions were worth denouncing until learning about it is perfectly accurate - how the **** am I supposed to know what one kid did to another in Ohio unless its reported? It wasn't a national story until he was drafted. There is no slant here, people are rightfully horrified at these actions and let it be known the only way they could.

I think I mentioned it before and I agree, I'm all for people getting information and forming their own opinions on things. Although these days, it can be difficult to get information that is truly unbiased, we should all do that.
But it's another thing altogether to have everybody become outraged and demand that he be released or we will boycott the league, or something similar.

That's one possibility. Another is that after hearing the Mom's statement, the GM went and talked to this guy about it and he said "f*** that n*****". Another is that the scouts made the decision to draft him and when the owner found out he said get rid of this kid. There's more than one possibility, we'll probably never know the truth.

I do agree that if it was simply media pressure then that is really pathetic given all their blustering about leading the charge for change, helping the kid, etc. but this feels like something else is at work.

One thing everybody can agree on is the ineptitude of the AZ front office.

 

[kilowatt]

I think I mentioned it before and I agree, I'm all for people getting information and forming their own opinions on things. Although these days, it can be difficult to get information that is truly unbiased, we should all do that.
But it's another thing altogether to have everybody become outraged and demand that he be released or we will boycott the league, or something similar.

Why? He did something outrageous.

 

[RaymondReddington]

Voynov would have been suspended by the NHL. No question. He was not banned. US immigration tried to deport him so he left voluntarily instead. (Leaving voluntarily would make an eventual return easier than being deported.) He still got an US entry ban for a couple years. If a foreign citizen can't enter the US, he can't play NHL hockey.

Finally had time to research...

NHL suspends Voynov for 2019-20 season for domestic violence. The NHL suspended defenseman Slava Voynov on Tuesday for the 2019-20 season and 2020 playoffs after determining he committed acts of domestic violence. Commissioner Gary Bettman suspended Voynov for what the league called unacceptable off-ice conduct.

NHL suspends Voynov for 2019-20 season for domestic violence.

Absolute bullshit to keep a guy from working at his highest level after he served his sentences and everyone knows he is not the only one in the league who has done the same act.

Edit: sorry for the bold on the quote, couldn't figure out how to correct it

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

I love when the 'personal responsibility' crowd bends themselves into pretzels to mitigate any personal responsibility Miller bares. Oh its just cancel culture lol sure. I guess some people don't think abusing a disables minority for 7+ years is a disqualifier...no wonder the abuser in chief still has some popularity.

 

[Stimpythecat]

ok, I missed that recent info.

 

[Lt Dan]

Finally had time to research...

NHL suspends Voynov for 2019-20 season for domestic violence. The NHL suspended defenseman Slava Voynov on Tuesday for the 2019-20 season and 2020 playoffs after determining he committed acts of domestic violence. Commissioner Gary Bettman suspended Voynov for what the league called unacceptable off-ice conduct.

NHL suspends Voynov for 2019-20 season for domestic violence.

Absolute bullshit to keep a guy from working at his highest level after he served his sentences and everyone knows he is not the only one in the league who has done the same act.

Edit: sorry for the bold on the quote, couldn't figure out how to correct it

For the sake of accuracy, that was shortened by an arbitrator

Arbitrator upholds Voynov suspension but says he served half

Arbitrator Shyam Das upheld Bettman’s decision that Voynov should be suspended for the equivalent of one NHL season but found he should be credited with having already served 41 games of the suspension last season. So Voynov will now be eligible to return midway through next season.