Around the League 36-But Who's Counting...

[Borsig]

Wow Mrazek looked bad last night.

Did we dodge a bullet or will we but low on Pulijari?

TDA a healthy scratch and now out for personal reasons. Does he hate Torts, lost his game because he doesn't have Slavin, or something else?

 

[mikeyfan]

I mean, if it came as the lone Caps goal in a 7-1 shelling that I could be in attendance for I wouldn't mind that.

But ideally for him it comes in DC. Maybe against the Oilers or Kings for just that little extra bit of history.

I would love for it to come against Boston, late in the season knocking Boston out of the playoffs

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Wow Mrazek looked bad last night.

Did we dodge a bullet or will we but low on Pulijari?

TDA a healthy scratch and now out for personal reasons. Does he hate Torts, lost his game because he doesn't have Slavin, or something else?

Allegedly, he's out due to family issues.

Also, regarding the OV talk, what's lost a lot of the time is his consistency. The man puts up goals... consistently. Doesn't matter where the Caps are in the standings, who they're playing, who the coach is, OV just scores goals.

Dividing his career games played into thirds, here are the goal totals, as of now -

1st third (435 GP): 283 goals
2nd third (435 GP): 256 goals
3rd third (435 GP): 261 goals

Also:

 

[MinJaBen]

Allegedly, he's out due to family issues.

Also, regarding the OV talk, what's lost a lot of the time is his consistency. The man puts up goals... consistently. Doesn't matter where the Caps are in the standings, who they're playing, who the coach is, OV just scores goals.

Dividing his career games played into thirds, here are the goal totals, as of now -

1st third (435 GP): 283 goals
2nd third (435 GP): 256 goals
3rd third (435 GP): 261 goals

Also:

Russian machine never breaks.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

Do we know what number or % of goals have come from his "office"?

 

[Svechhammer]

Wow Mrazek looked bad last night.

Did we dodge a bullet or will we but low on Pulijari?

TDA a healthy scratch and now out for personal reasons. Does he hate Torts, lost his game because he doesn't have Slavin, or something else?

One game he was a healthy scratch, but he had a family emergency and had to fly home in the middle of their current road trip

 

[CandyCanes]

Koochie has a better SV % over Vasi, Shesti, & Sorokin

 

[Borsig]

Koochie has a better SV % over Vasi, Shesti, & Sorokin

The thing I worry about with Kochetkov is shooters figuring him out, him being young, and it screwing up his confidence at an early age. if they find a weakness and exploit it, it could ruin him before he has a chance to mature into an NHL starter

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Indeed, it says a lot that goalies of that era didn't particularly need large shoulder pads to play the game safely. Their shoulders were over the top of the net, so why try to block those pucks at all? Same with the mask, which is designed on an assumption that shots wouldn't be coming at an angle that could hit him in the throat. Today's goalies would literally die if they wore that mask in an NHL game, because they're sliding around on the ground taking point-blank shots that are coming off the ice at 45 degree angles.

Everything changed when they added landing gear to the leg pads. Instead of a shorter guy who can cover the corners with his hands and feet, you look for a taller guy who can block off angles with his shoulders and legs. So goal-scoring techniques change, and you get a different aesthetic to the game.

Moved it out of the GDT to the appropriate thread.

That's all true, but when you take everything into account, the data shows that scoring was anywhere from .5 - 1 goal per game higher in the 80s than it is today. So more advanced training, better stick technology, goal-scoring techniques, etc.. doesn't overcome the changes to the goaltender position (size and equipment) and the fact that defensemen are far superior skaters overall these day. It's harder to score now than it was back then.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Moved it out of the GDT to the appropriate thread.

That's all true, but when you take everything into account, the data shows that scoring was anywhere from .5 - 1 goal per game higher in the 80s than it is today. So more advanced training, better stick technology, goal-scoring techniques, etc.. doesn't overcome the changes to the goaltender position (size and equipment) and the fact that defensemen are far superior skaters overall these day. It's harder to score now than it was back then.

For sure... I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just focusing in on the issue of goalie development over time.

To me, the question of whether a particular 2023 player is objectively better than a particular 1983 player is just kind of a moot point. It's like asking whether Charles Lindbergh was a better pilot than the guy flying your 747. Objectively speaking, the guy flying the 747 is a better pilot. He can make expert use of technology that Lindbergh couldn't even imagine, to do things that weren't even within the bounds of possibility back then. If we were giving out Objectively Best Pilot of All Time awards, your random commercial pilot would probably be top-100 or something. But it's a meaningless way to evaluate the two individuals against one another. What actually matters in the moment is whether your 747 pilot is competent to do the things expected of him in 2023. If he's below-average in today's context, then he doesn't have much claim to greatness. He's just a dude who happened to be born later.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

To me, the question of whether a particular 2023 player is objectively better than a particular 1983 player is just kind of a moot point.

Agree. When I watch clips like this below and see the goaltending, how much of the net they leave open, and immobile defensemen, my first thought is "McDavid would score 100 goals in that era." Of course, McDavid probably wouldn't be the same player in that era because he wouldn't have been brought up the same, trained the same, been coached the same, etc... He'd still be elite due to natural ability, but there's way more to it so it's impossible to compare.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

For sure... I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just focusing in on the issue of goalie development over time.

To me, the question of whether a particular 2023 player is objectively better than a particular 1983 player is just kind of a moot point. It's like asking whether Charles Lindbergh was a better pilot than the guy flying your 747. Objectively speaking, the guy flying the 747 is a better pilot. He can make expert use of technology that Lindbergh couldn't even imagine, to do things that weren't even within the bounds of possibility back then. If we were giving out Objectively Best Pilot of All Time awards, your random commercial pilot would probably be top-100 or something. But it's a meaningless way to evaluate the two individuals against one another. What actually matters in the moment is whether your 747 pilot is competent to do the things expected of him in 2023. If he's below-average in today's context, then he doesn't have much claim to greatness. He's just a dude who happened to be born later.

I agree to a point. But as a devil's advocate, I'd say some of the early pilots (think aces and such) could do and had to do things that today's pilots cannot. They did not have all the high tech gear/systems these guys have today. Especially big plane commercial pilots who basically push buttons and let the software and hardware do the rest.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I agree to a point. But as a devil's advocate, I'd say some of the early pilots (think aces and such) could do and had to do things that today's pilots cannot. They did not have all the high tech gear/systems these guys have today. Especially big plane commercial pilots who basically push buttons and let the software and hardware do the rest.

To an extent, that principle also true of today's hockey players. I don't think your average fan or player understands just how hard it is to pick a corner with a flat-bladed wooden stick. Nor it is easy for to appreciate the amount of skill it took to play NHL-level hockey on tube skates. Old-time hockey looks slow and simple for a reason. Those are strong, athletic men who professionally learned to push the boundaries of the equipment they had available. The difference between the eras largely comes down to material/tech advancements and training players to exploit them as much as possible.

Easy example -- NHL players are incredibly good at flicking loose pucks over goalies, regardless where the puck started. It could be in their skates, way out in front of them, they can be shooting from their knees, whatever. They still get enough lift and speed to create a dangerous shot. That is not even an option with a wood stick, where you can't get the kind of flex needed to lift the puck with shot-like speed without any kind of body leverage.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Training, diet and science in the 70s and 80s wasn't anything like what it is today for NHLrs. They may have pushed the limits of their equipment, but it was also a totally different era where their training and nutrition wasn't something that was taken as seriously (on the whole). That's also a big piece of it.

Many of those guys used training camp to get in shape as they did very little in the off-seasons. Many players were habitual smokers (Bossy used to smoke while taking post game pressers for instance). I recall reading a story where Keenan tried to get Denis Savard (pack a day) to stop smoking and he went through withdrawals and his play tailed off so he began smoking again. It was commonplace back then. Fast forward to 2010 and Alex Semin get's tons of shit for being seen lighting up a cigarette.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Training, diet and science in the 70s and 80s wasn't anything like what it is today for NHLrs. They may have pushed the limits of their equipment, but it was also a totally different era where their training and nutrition wasn't something that was taken as seriously (on the whole). That's also a big piece of it.

Many of those guys used training camp to get in shape as they did very little in the off-seasons. Many players were habitual smokers (Bossy used to smoke while taking post game pressers for instance). I recall reading a story where Keenan tried to get Denis Savard (pack a day) to stop smoking and he went through withdrawals and his play tailed off so he began smoking again. It was commonplace back then. Fast forward to 2010 and Alex Semin get's tons of shit for being seen lighting up a cigarette.

That's a big part of why both Bossy and Savard (and Lafleur, Trottier, Perreault, Sittler, etc.) were all done as high-impact players by age 30.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So I turned on the Wings / Wild midway through the game. I expected to see Ned in net on a B2B...but instead the coach went with 31 YO AHL goalie Magnus Hellberg instead.

 

[Canes]

I agree to a point. But as a devil's advocate, I'd say some of the early pilots (think aces and such) could do and had to do things that today's pilots cannot. They did not have all the high tech gear/systems these guys have today. Especially big plane commercial pilots who basically push buttons and let the software and hardware do the rest.

It's a different skillset these days. My grandfather flew P-47s in WWII but if you asked him to fly a Boeing 737 or any modern commercial airliner, he'd be completely lost. Also the modern day pilot still does need to know how to fly, general flight characteristics, etc. Yes, there is autopilot and such but you ain't flying a plane like that until you have thousands of hours flying on lesser aircraft where you actually need to know how to fly in the first place.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

So I turned on the Wings / Wild midway through the game. I expected to see Ned in net on a B2B...but instead the coach went with 31 YO AHL goalie Magnus Hellberg instead.

Ned’s confidence is in the shitter right now, and it’s really affected his play. He’s allowed 4 or more goals in 3 straight starts, and 6 of his last 7 outings.

 

[zman77]

 

[Sens1Canes2]

So I turned on the Wings / Wild midway through the game. I expected to see Ned in net on a B2B...but instead the coach went with 31 YO AHL goalie Magnus Hellberg instead.

Did you see Reaves truck Hronek? Myyyyyyyy goodness.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Did you see Reaves truck Hronek? Myyyyyyyy goodness.

That was brutal. One of those hits you can feel through the screen while watching it.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

That was brutal. One of those hits you can feel through the screen while watching it.

Yep. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a guy that unaware of what was about to happen.

 

[HisIceness]

Did you see Reaves truck Hronek? Myyyyyyyy goodness.

First thing I thought of was Brian Campbell trucking RJ Umberger in the 2006 playoffs.

 

[Canes]

Did you see Reaves truck Hronek? Myyyyyyyy goodness.

That was also one of the cleanest destroying of a man I've seen in quite awhile. The fact it was Ryan Reaves seemed to break some people's brains. Yes Reaves is a bad hockey player but that was as clean as you can get for a hit so devastating.

 

[AD Skinner]

Holy cow are those green wild jerseys gorgeous