Around the League - 2023/24

[henchman21]

I have to disagree. You're talking 33.33% - 50% of your top 6 missing.

Winning a Stanley Cup takes a LOT of tangibles to achieve (injuries, chemistry, form, luck, goal-tending, culture, officiating, home ice advantages etc etc etc). We didn't have much "cup luck" (I call it) last season.

Give it a go mate. Next season, we (once again) have a top end team, consisting of generational talent, hard work, dedication, quality, culture, ambition, coaching, systems to be able to absolutely blow any other team away on our day.

Bookmark this post. As we challenge in the 3rd round (and beyond) next season, I'm going to want to hear your updated thought's and opinion.

I literally have 100% faith that if everything "goes to plan", our club is bringing the Stanley Cup back to Colorado. Bank it !

Dedication, culture, ambition… doesn’t seem to jive with Nuke. Or the other issues simmering.

Avs need to make a few moves to move to the higher contender level. Possible, but they’ll have to be aggressive. If they aren’t, this team isn’t built like a top team anymore. Sad, but true at this point.

 

[LOFIN]

Plus injuries happen (I’ll consider Nuke a nasal injury)… they’ll always happen.

Injuries like with Nuke don't always happen.


But we were losing that series regardless. Tough to blame it on missing one player if you lose 4-2

 

[henchman21]

Last year I agree. FO punted on the season at the deadline.

We did this year tho. You could make an argument they were a top 5 team this year. At worst maybe the 7th/8th best team. I think it was even more obvious after the finals as well. East got overrated. Edmonton was the 2nd best team and Dallas was an obvious 3rd. Avs have as good of a case as anyone after that.

The Avs were aggressive this year and that’s what I really ask. Win while you can.

I don’t buy that listing of teams. We’ll see it differently, but the Avs were dominated by Dallas who was dominated by Edmonton. Edmonton had to have the best player in the world stage a massive comeback to have shot. IMO Avs weren’t a top 5 team last year and the Dallas series showed it wasn’t that close.

Injuries like with Nuke don't always happen.


But we were losing that series regardless. Tough to blame it on missing one player if you lose 4-2

Well… Nuke had it 3 times in 13 months… odds are he won’t make it through next seasons as an Av or eligible.

 

[ANewHope]

The Avs were aggressive this year and that’s what I really ask. Win while you can.

I don’t buy that listing of teams. We’ll see it differently, but the Avs were dominated by Dallas who was dominated by Edmonton. Edmonton had to have the best player in the world stage a massive comeback to have shot. IMO Avs weren’t a top 5 team last year and the Dallas series showed it wasn’t that

Bob stood on his head early in the series. McDavid also had 0 points and 0 shots in game 6 and they forced a game 7. Florida was supposed to dominate them and they didn't. Your selling them short. It went beyond McDavid. They almost won with 0 points from him in games 6/7. Teams like Boston and to a lesser extent Carolina get really overrated which makes people think the East is better than it is.

Dallas lost a game 6 to Edmonton where they outshot them 34-10. Edmonton was clearly better but Dallas still had a shot.

I think it's fair to slot the Avs anywhere from 4th-7th this season. A team that absolutely needs everything to fall their way and get really lucky. Low end contender but to each his own. I think the majority(atleast outside of HFAvs lol) would have had them in that range. Will take some work to get back that level tho.

 

[henchman21]

Bob stood on his head early in the series. McDavid also had 0 points and 0 shots in game 6 and they forced a game 7. Florida was supposed to dominate them and they didn't. Your selling them short. It went beyond McDavid. They almost won with 0 points from him in games 6/7. Teams like Boston and to a lesser extent Carolina get really overrated which makes people think the East is better than it is.

Dallas lost a game 6 to Edmonton where they outshot them 34-10. Edmonton was clearly better but Dallas still had a shot.

I think it's fair to slot the Avs anywhere from 4th-7th this season. A team that absolutely needs everything to fall their way and get really lucky. Low end contender but to each his own. I think the majority(atleast outside of HFAvs lol) would have had them in that range. Will take some work to get back that level tho.

Florida had a big lead and got tight. Combined with McDavid doing McDavid things in games 4 and 5 kept that from being an early out. If Bob also doesn’t struggle, that series could have easily been done in 5. Edmonton was a very good team. Have zero qualms with people starting they were the 2nd best. They were a couple notches above the Avs.

6th to 9th (and I’d probably say around 7th) is fair. Semantics though. Thats not really a a contender IMO. Avs live in the media and other fans off reputation. Just like Tampa the last couple years and Penguins prior to that. There is star power and a lightning in a bottle chance, but not a top contender. Next season, there is a good amount of work that’ll need to be done by the deadline to elevate.

 

[ANewHope]

Florida had a big lead and got tight. Combined with McDavid doing McDavid things in games 4 and 5 kept that from being an early out. If Bob also doesn’t struggle, that series could have easily been done in 5. Edmonton was a very good team. Have zero qualms with people starting they were the 2nd best. They were a couple notches above the Avs.

6th to 9th (and I’d probably say around 7th) is fair. Semantics though. Thats not really a a contender IMO. Avs live in the media and other fans off reputation. Just like Tampa the last couple years and Penguins prior to that. There is star power and a lightning in a bottle chance, but not a top contender. Next season, there is a good amount of work that’ll need to be done by the deadline to elevate.

I hate the Oilers but they were the better team in game 1. The big lead Florida got wasn't sustainable and it showed. That was a close series that either team could have won. Bob's play early in the series and McDavid getting shutdown the final 2 games ended up being the biggest factors IMO.

I think that's why we always disagree on this. 6th best team is a contender for me personally. It's certainly subjective. To me that's a low end contender that needs luck/right matchups to win. Different from a Boston who doesn't have a 1C and would require breaking the mold but is a step above playoff fodder like the Kings/Isles. Basically Contenders/Cinderella teams/Fodder.

I'd say a good amount of work is underselling it at this point. Next season is where the Avs wind up like Pittsburgh/Tampa unless everything goes their way. We were a step up from that this season.

 

[PAZ]

Dedication, culture, ambition… doesn’t seem to jive with Nuke. Or the other issues simmering.

Avs need to make a few moves to move to the higher contender level. Possible, but they’ll have to be aggressive. If they aren’t, this team isn’t built like a top team anymore. Sad, but true at this point.

Nuke is a lot of things, but I do think he's dedicated and ambitious. He just also makes a lot of stupid decisions. He constantly played 22+ minutes a night and busted his ass in every single minute, along with putting in reps after games/workouts to stay in shape.

If he didn't give a damn he wouldn't be doing any of that. He's a flawed individual, but I do think he still wants to win and is dedicated to the sport. He just also has his vices.

 

[crusen86]

Guys, I'm finding it really difficult to understand. We have an absolute top tier, generational talented filled team, capable of winning a Stanley Cup year-on-year.

I didn't know where to write this, but can people please explain to me? There is so much concern, negativity and pessimism by people who are posting about our chances.

Agreed. After watching 2017, every season is sunshine and rainbows.

 

[Grigowski]

Winning a Stanley Cup takes a LOT of tangibles to achieve (injuries, chemistry, form, luck, goal-tending, culture, officiating, home ice advantages etc etc etc). We didn't have much "cup luck" (I call it) last season.

And all starts with a lucky seeding....

Dallas won the west and had to play Vegas and Colorado in Round 1 and 2...

While Edmonton got a bye-week with possible the worst team in this years playoff and faced Vancouver down on their 3rd goalie in Round 2.....

Sounds familiar, right?
The difference to our run and cup is, that the AVS from 2022 were a juggernaut on every level. Even with one-eye-Darcy in net.

 

[henchman21]

Nuke is a lot of things, but I do think he's dedicated and ambitious. He just also makes a lot of stupid decisions. He constantly played 22+ minutes a night and busted his ass in every single minute, along with putting in reps after games/workouts to stay in shape.

If he didn't give a damn he wouldn't be doing any of that. He's a flawed individual, but I do think he still wants to win and is dedicated to the sport. He just also has his vices.

Dedication and ambition would be putting the powder away during a Cup run. Where your team needs you. Not snorting lines and partying with hookers. Clearly his priorities are elsewhere. Which isn’t a surprise as he’s an addict. But dedication to the team is severely lacking.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

IMO the Oilers' PK made that team look a lot better than they actually were. People will say that PK is part of the team but theirs was pretty well historic.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1810682462466634229

https://x.com/i/web/status/1810682913861628412

 

[Pokecheque]

IMO the Oilers' PK made that team look a lot better than they actually were. People will say that PK is part of the team but theirs was pretty well historic.

Well, the Avs’ already-struggling PK imploded even further right before the end of the regular season, so…

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Well, the Avs’ already-struggling PK imploded even further right before the end of the regular season, so…

I'm not sure I understand your comment with regard to mine.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1810654986658869625

 

[Balthazar]

1- McDavid is much closer to Gretzky than he is to the 4th guy (Forsberg)

2- Mack would be significantly higher without the Duchene era.

3- Era adjusted, Mario is the best hockey player that ever played the game

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm not sure I understand your comment with regard to mine.

Sorry, probably should've added more context. I'm in agreement with you, just saying the Avs' PK was abominable in this year's playoff run, they took, like, almost zero penalties against the Jets and I'm pretty sure that was about the only time the Jets actually managed to create legitimately dangerous scoring chances the whole series. No way was that PK making a long playoff run. A really good PK, as you pointed out, can take you far, but a bad one almost assuredly dooms you.

 

[dahrougem2]

1- McDavid is much closer to Gretzky than he is to the 4th guy (Forsberg)

2- Mack would be significantly higher without the Duchene era.

3- Era adjusted, Mario is the best hockey player that ever played the game

Adjusted points has always been an incredibly stupid argument to me.

 

[Balthazar]

Adjusted points has always been an incredibly stupid argument to me.

It is extremely important and relevant.

When one year there's like 1 guy who's PPG in the whole league vs 30 PPG guys a few year later things are obviously not the same.

It's not because they all sucked and all of a sudden everyone is elite.

 

[dahrougem2]

It is extremely important and relevant.

When one year there's like 1 guy who's PPG in the whole league vs 30 PPG guys a few year later things are obviously not the same.

It's not because they all sucked and all of a sudden everyone is elite.

No, it's not extremely important and relevant. You can't just adjust someone's points because the league was more or less offensive in given years. It completely removes all context to how good that player was.

 

[The Abusement Park]

1- McDavid is much closer to Gretzky than he is to the 4th guy (Forsberg)

2- Mack would be significantly higher without the Duchene era.

3- Era adjusted, Mario is the best hockey player that ever played the game

Meh Mario isn’t better than Gretzky imo even including era adjustments imo. Gretzky has a higher PPG and played ~600 more games. He also did everything that Mario “could’ve” done and for all the shit that McDavid gets for being a PP merchant Mario was the PP merchant.

 

[AslanRH]

If Mario stayed healthy I think I could project him equal to or slightly above Gretz, but he didn't so we will never know.
I feel Crosby is still underrated (despite the stats) by many folks when brought up in conversation. Hopefully in time that changes. Such a good all around player

 

[Pokecheque]

I think you can make a strong argument that Mario was undoubtedly the most talented player to ever take NHL ice. But I still rank Gretzky ahead of him if we're talking about the GOAT, simply because Mario couldn't stay healthy.

 

[dahrougem2]

IMO it's no question Connor McDavid is the most talented player to ever play.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

It will always be very difficult to compare players of different eras. So many things can affect how a player plays and how good he was in that era. For instance Gretzky played in an era that he was very well protected by goons on his team. He certainly wasn't challenged physically like McDavid, Crosby (concussions), etc. Obviously the other stars in that era were not as well so I don't want to take away anything from him. My point is more about would he have been to maintain that pace if he had been getting a few hard bodychecks per game. Maybe his body would have broken down sooner therefore slowing him down considerably. Just a thought.