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Around the League - 2023/24

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Pokecheque said:
That proves nothing in terms of hockey sense.

Guy Lafleur was legendary in terms of his talent and also his lack of hockey sense. Larry Robinson said in an interview that in practice, Flower was always the first guy to screw up a basic drill. Didn’t matter though because his skills and talent were more than enough to make up for it. And Lafleur had plenty of end-to-end rushes himself.

I don’t see why it’s so controversial to say Nate isn’t great in terms of hockey IQ. Neither was Eric Lindros and he’s in the Hall of Fame.

Also, while 29 isn’t a hockey scholar, he ain’t Sampo Ranta either. He just gets it done with skill, speed, size, and work ethic. Different players get it done different ways.
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Agree on all of this. Mack had his best game of the season and he still managed to do at least three bonehead plays that I counted when he had time and space to do much better plays instead of turning over the puck. Great players are great players because they take some chances but his are not calculated. I find that his turnovers kill momentum especially on the PP. If he would go for safer plays there would be less turnovers which means the PK players wouldn't be able to change. They would get more tired which in turns would start opening up lanes.

At this point in his career he is what he is. He would have changed by now if he could. We just have to accept it. I am not looking forward for the years when he loses a few steps. That will be even more frustrating than it is now. He will need to adjust his game accordingly but then again it brings us back to same issue...does he have the hockey IQ to do that? I believe he doesn't.
 
Pokecheque said:
That proves nothing in terms of hockey sense.

Guy Lafleur was legendary in terms of his talent and also his lack of hockey sense. Larry Robinson said in an interview that in practice, Flower was always the first guy to screw up a basic drill. Didn’t matter though because his skills and talent were more than enough to make up for it. And Lafleur had plenty of end-to-end rushes himself.

I don’t see why it’s so controversial to say Nate isn’t great in terms of hockey IQ. Neither was Eric Lindros and he’s in the Hall of Fame.

Also, while 29 isn’t a hockey scholar, he ain’t Sampo Ranta either. He just gets it done with skill, speed,size, and work ethic. Different players get it done different ways.
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Dude I was joking. I know that play had nothing to do with hockey sense.
 
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I really like the fact that the Sharks went all-teal, but they messed up bad by making the white away jerseys have black numbers. Now they have the same issue the Avs did that first year they switched to blue helmets and pants and kept the numbers colored the same way. It's made worse by the fact the Sharks insist on wearing teal helmets with their whites, which I'll admit is an increasingly grating pet peeve of mine.
 
Columbus has played 27 games and Ottawa only 20. I know Ottawa was over in Sweden, but still a bit weird.
 


Obviously Jared Bednar's NHL coaching debut was quite possibly the most disastrous in league history, but I'm hard-pressed to think of one that was more rife with gross incompetence than Pascal Vincent's.

This of course is not ALL on him as the entire organization, from ownership on down is completely rudderless, but at some point you have to just f***ing make some tough decisions. Play the goddamned kids...you can't stand the veterans anyway!
 
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LOFIN said:
Considering what has happened to Ristolainen under Tortorella, if you could just find the coaches who could actually teach him to defend, he does have awesome tools. He's big and can actually skate pretty well. And yes, you can actually teach people to defend. It would just need effort and resources of the team, which is probably not usually the case. They don't have time for individual coaching all that much.

Ristolainen is an interesting example, because under Tortorella he has actually become a really solid defensman. Considering how his scoring has dropped off, probably not worth the cap hit he's on but he's not the horrible defensman he used to be with Buffalo on and Philly to start. So if you could give Zadorov the same treatment... Will be interesting to see if Foote can do something there.
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Can’t really teach IQ though. Zadorov is just not a smart player. He does some good things in offensive zone, physical on opposition zone entries, but when it comes to positioning and defending in his own zone, he’s just bad.
 
Pokecheque said:


Obviously Jared Bednar's NHL coaching debut was quite possibly the most disastrous in league history, but I'm hard-pressed to think of one that was more rife with gross incompetence than Pascal Vincent's.

This of course is not ALL on him as the entire organization, from ownership on down is completely rudderless, but at some point you have to just f***ing make some tough decisions. Play the goddamned kids...you can't stand the veterans anyway!
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Bednar was dealt a roster that simply couldn't play his desired system and over half the team IIRC was out of the league entirely the very next season.

This Vincent fella legitimately has talent on his team. It's obviously not a contending team, but there's skill with Fantilli, Johnson, Jiricek, Gaudreau, Laine, Marchenko, Provorov, etc.

He is showing the league why he should never be given another HC opportunity when he is inevitably fired next Summer.
 
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the_fan said:
Can’t really teach IQ though. Zadorov is just not a smart player. He does some good things in offensive zone, physical on opposition zone entries, but when it comes to positioning and defending in his own zone, he’s just bad.
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The same with Ristolainen, yet Tortorella seems to have been able to fix it. That was the entire point.
 
Z is only really effective in man defensive schemes... any time you ask him to play defense in space it all falls apart.
 
LOFIN said:
Considering what has happened to Ristolainen under Tortorella, if you could just find the coaches who could actually teach him to defend, he does have awesome tools. He's big and can actually skate pretty well. And yes, you can actually teach people to defend. It would just need effort and resources of the team, which is probably not usually the case. They don't have time for individual coaching all that much.

Ristolainen is an interesting example, because under Tortorella he has actually become a really solid defensman. Considering how his scoring has dropped off, probably not worth the cap hit he's on but he's not the horrible defensman he used to be with Buffalo on and Philly to start. So if you could give Zadorov the same treatment... Will be interesting to see if Foote can do something there.
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Near as I can tell, Ristolainen still sucks, it's just that Torts has a better idea now that he sucks, and has made the proper adjustments, namely burying him in the lineup.

His ATOI has dropped from last year from around 20 minutes to 15, and his OZ/DZ starts have shifted dramatically. Torts inexplicably (or as I'm about to point out perhaps explicably) put him out there for over 60% defensive zone starts. This year he's over 50% in the offensive zone. It's possible Torts HAD to do this because he was too busy sheltering the living hell outta Tony DeAngelo, who had offensive zone starts at over 60%.

It's clear RR was used as a top four guy last season (spent most of his time out there last year with Sanheim and they were a disaster, now it's a combo of Staal/Zamula and the numbers are much better) to a third pairing/clear number 5.

Also, the goaltending behind Ristolainen and the rest of the Flyboys has gotten a TON better than it was last year. Coupled with the improved offense, that sure makes even the worst players look a ton better.

As for Zadorov, yeah we'll see. With him it really depends on the kind of defensive system they use. Also, Zadorov only really thrived that one year in Calgary where he and Gudbranson were basically stapled to the Tkachuk/Lindholm/Hockey line. He almost didn't have to play defense because those three ALWAYS had the puck.
 
Say what you will about his blow up and dealings with the press... Torts is one hell of a coach. There are not many coaches that I think make a drastic difference on their teams, but he is certainly one of them. Philly has no business making the playoffs with their roster and yet they are right in the thick of it.
 
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henchman21 said:
Say what you will about his blow up and dealings with the press... Torts is one hell of a coach. There are not many coaches that I think make a drastic difference on their teams, but he is certainly one of them. Philly has no business making the playoffs with their roster and yet they are right in the thick of it.
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Agreed. I freely admit his antics got on my nerves but you can't deny the guy knows what he's doing.

It helps tremendously that they're getting semi-competent goaltending and Sean Couturier is playing.
 
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dahrougem2 said:
Bednar was dealt a roster that simply couldn't play his desired system and over half the team IIRC was out of the league entirely the very next season.

This Vincent fella legitimately has talent on his team. It's obviously not a contending team, but there's skill with Fantilli, Johnson, Jiricek, Gaudreau, Laine, Marchenko, Provorov, etc.

He is showing the league why he should never be given another HC opportunity when he is inevitably fired next Summer.
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Honestly he should be fired this year, but the issue is the organization committed to competing this season and they aren't going to change course after committing all that money and assets to Gaudreau, Gudbranson, Provorov, Severson, etc.

I find it really funny that guys like Kuraky, Danforth, Roslovic, are top 6 in forward ice-time. when they have so many other players that would benefit.
 
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I can't believe how quickly I lost all respect for Jarmo, but to be honest I think these latest rounds of hot piles of stink (Babcock, then replacing him with an assistant coach they've already passed over twice) were created by John Davidson.
 
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