GDT: Around the League 2023-24 I : "Wake Up. September Has Ended!"

[K1984]

Fully and completely agree with Fonzie.

The modern game is fast and skilled. However it has crushed the physical contact aspect that is another incredible part of this sport. Overall there's too much subjectivity within the rule book which erodes consistency in calls being make (tap on gloves, sneeze on light contact, etc.) and today's generation of players growing up with little hitting and no idea of how to protect themselves when it happens. A goofy consequence is a higher number of fake tough pillow fights where a teammate feels compelled to stand up for his deer in the headlights buddy who's caught with his head down on a clean hit. The game is becoming too soft.

When I was a kid if I crossed through the train tracks and got lit up I heard from my coach/Dad/whomever that it was my fault and was an idiot for running through center with my head down. Message was "you play with matches you get burned. Nobody is going to do you any favors so protect yourself first before you worry what anyone else will do." I'm also not even that old, I finished playing competitively less than 15 years ago.

The narrative has now shifted to "it's HIS fault for blowing you up when you put yourself in that vulnerable position." All this does it allow collisions that are exceedingly more intense to occur because the puck carrier is now being trained to not worry about it because the other guy isn't supposed to hit you that way anymore. Just leads to more injuries and a shittier, softer game.

 

[Tarus]

Hits to the head have effectively been removed from the game and rightfully so. Remove hits from behind and blindside hits are also usually penalized now as well. But plain shoulder to shoulder Body contact, including bracing for hits which Hughes failed to do, which is what Torts is talking about. Hughes was ill prepared for this clean bodycheck, had he been prepared there would have been no issue.

For years I taught coaches how to teach proper bodychecking and body contact at the U13 age and up so I know of what I speak.

I've watched the replay from that specific hit. You can see from various angles that he came out of Hughes' blindspot, when the player thought the play was dead, there is helmet on head contact and a significant portion of the hit up high. I'm not at all surprised that Hathaway got ejected, they've been calling those for over a decade now. You're more likely to get away with a hit from behind than a borderline high/blindside hit like that these days. So no, it's not just that the player didn't brace himself for a big hit. Worst you can say on Hughes is that you play to the whistle rather than taking it on faith that the refs are going to do their jobs, but he's also a rookie and almost everyone lets up on icing races now.

Wasn't actually responding to the Hughes's hit though, but the content of Tort's complaint. After seeing the hit, I agree even less with his statements.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Hits to the head have effectively been removed from the game and rightfully so. Remove hits from behind and blindside hits are also usually penalized now as well. But plain shoulder to shoulder Body contact, including bracing for hits which Hughes failed to do, which is what Torts is talking about. Hughes was ill prepared for this clean bodycheck, had he been prepared there would have been no issue.

For years I taught coaches how to teach proper bodychecking and body contact at the U13 age and up its a skill like skating passing or shooting and its a skill rapidly disappearing in the game. EDIT - sorry not meaning for that to sound condescending or anything like that, just know how safe body contact both receiving and giving a hit should be done. It is contact so there will be occasional injuries just like in football or rugby or any contact sport but like tackling, body contact can be done safely and without brain trauma.


Which is why Hughes should have been prepared for body contact coming. He assumed there would be a whistle but that is not how the game is played.

Fully agree with your post. In a high speed, collision sport, learning how to give and take a check is a critical skill, often a survival skill at apex level of play.

About the Hughes play, I agree with how you see it. First, the referees blew the call with a late, hesitation whistle as the collision was happening versus at the hashmarks. But watching the angle of attack, Hathaway is going to the puck not targeting Hughes who he could have easily blown up into a complete trainwreck. You see as both players go for the puck, Hathaway changes his angle to explode into Hughes to win the puck battle. Unfortunately, rookie college guy has stopped playing and has his head down and pays the price for it. This is a different, apex league where aggression is still a big part of play and Hathaway drove through a player to win a puck battle that hadn't been whistled until essentially the moment of contact.

Jack Hughes:

"Thank God I didn't get hurt," Hughes said.

"However, the incident has become a valuable learning experience for the young player, who acknowledged the importance of self-protection in high-intensity games."

Also Jack Hughes:
"I probably got to protect myself there but learn from it," Hughes added.

Of course Hughes is ultimately fine and scores the game winning goal.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I've watched the replay from that specific hit. You can see from various angles that he came out of Hughes' blindspot, when the player thought the play was dead, there is helmet on head contact and a significant portion of the hit up high. I'm not at all surprised that Hathaway got ejected, they've been calling those for over a decade now. You're more likely to get away with a hit from behind than a borderline high/blindside hit like that these days. So no, it's not just that the player didn't brace himself for a big hit. Worst you can say on Hughes is that you play to the whistle rather than taking it on faith that the refs are going to do their jobs, but he's also a rookie and almost everyone lets up on icing races now.

Wasn't actually responding to the Hughes's hit though, but the content of Tort's complaint. After seeing the hit, I agree even less with his statements.

We see the hit completely differently. Your statement saying the player assumed the play was dead is the first sign of unpreparedness. In a contact sport with no out of bounds you never ever assume the play is dead, ever. Until you hear a whistle the play is live and you must be aware of your surroundings at all times which means head up and on a swivel. Hughes even essentially said so himself post game.

As for Torts in proper context he is 100% correct. If you want no contact then remove it completely. You can’t do it subjectively.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Lockout 4.0 on its way. Earnings remained flat due to Covid. That changes this coming year. Expansion gives players more jobs, adds revenue to HRR which adds to the salary cap.

Zero chance owners give part of franchise values or expansion fees to players. It would be like owners asking for non-guaranteed contracts.

Stupid ask and a non-starter.

 

[bellagiobob]

He’s not wrong.

Agree with Torts. When I saw the hit I thought it was pretty vicious, but a clean hit. Stripes screwed up big time on the play. And it seems like all three brothers get smoked fairly often, still have too much of the college psyche in them.

 

[Tarus]

We see the hit completely differently. Your statement saying the player assumed the play was dead is the first sign of unpreparedness. In a contact sport with no out of bounds you never ever assume the play is dead, ever. Until you hear a whistle the play is live and you must be aware of your surroundings at all times which means head up and on a swivel. Hughes even essentially said so himself post game.

As for Torts in proper context he is 100% correct. If you want no contact then remove it completely. You can’t do it subjectively.

You can see the linesman throwing his hand up by the players bench for an icing call, and for whatever reason didn't blow the whistle until Hughes touched the puck(right when Hathaway threw the hit), negating the whole point of the no touch icing rule to prevent dangerous high speed collusions in that area of the ice. It's a mistake that almost got Hughes severely injured, and while I'm sure he'll take it to heart that he has to play to the whistle and always be prepared, the real lesson here is that you never know if/when the linesmen/refs are going to do their job and never to rely on them. It's pretty clear Torts knows the linesman mades a mistake too, you can tell with his "please don't fine me" platitudes section of the quote that he doesn't think it was Hughes who made the mistake either, and laments that it's his team that had to suffer for the mistake while couching it in a bit of victim blaming so the NHL doesn't extract 50K from his paycheck.

The hit itself is decently predatory, it's probably at the very least worth a charging penalty even if Hughes is braced. Then again, maybe not, NHL reffing is rarely consistent on those things.

But again, I was arguing against Tort's other sentiments in my original post when he starts waxing on about the players policing themselves(which absolutely doesn't work), and his desire to see the league move back to a big hitting league(which the NHL and it's partners clearly don't want)

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Lockout 4.0 on its way. Earnings remained flat due to Covid. That changes this coming year. Expansion gives players more jobs, adds revenue to HRR which adds to the salary cap.

Zero chance owners give part of franchise values or expansion fees to players. It would be like owners asking for non-guaranteed contracts.

Stupid ask and a non-starter.

It's just part of negotiations. You reach for the stars but end up landing on the moon.

I'm pretty sure most players like Huberdeau don't want to lose a years pay for increases in salary cap at some point in the future

 

[TheNumber4]

I missed that Hughes hit. Did it not get posted on the Mains? I didn’t see it…. Speaking of which the mains kinda sucks for keeping up with NHL happenings nowadays. This forum seems to be dying.

Anyways my take on that hit:
- Typical NHL Ref incompetence lead to potential injury for the Devils and a dumb penalization for the Flyers. A double whammy of incompetence.

- I don’t get the argument that players used to police themselves which made the game safer. Two superstars in Kariya and Lindros I’m sure had ample protection on their teams. Didn’t prevent them from getting their brains scrambled and careers shortened, a detriment to the League.

- If you are going to ask players to be better prepared for hits to come, they need to have an idea of what hits are coming, the NhLs rules on head hits, blind side hits, or “clean” hits are so f***in hazy and enforcement so inconsistent, how can they be expected to know what to expect?

- Even when those types of hits like blindsides were to be “expected” back in the day, players still got blasted.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

You can see the linesman throwing his hand up by the players bench for an icing call, and for whatever reason didn't blow the whistle until Hughes touched the puck(right when Hathaway threw the hit), negating the whole point of the no touch icing rule to prevent dangerous high speed collusions in that area of the ice. It's a mistake that almost got Hughes severely injured, and while I'm sure he'll take it to heart that he has to play to the whistle and always be prepared, the real lesson here is that you never know if/when the linesmen/refs are going to do their job and never to rely on them. It's pretty clear Torts knows the linesman mades a mistake too, you can tell with his "please don't fine me" platitudes section of the quote that he doesn't think it was Hughes who made the mistake either, and laments that it's his team that had to suffer for the mistake while couching it in a bit of victim blaming so the NHL doesn't extract 50K from his paycheck.

The hit itself is decently predatory, it's probably at the very least worth a charging penalty even if Hughes is braced. Then again, maybe not, NHL reffing is rarely consistent on those things.

But again, I was arguing against Tort's other sentiments in my original post when he starts waxing on about the players policing themselves(which absolutely doesn't work), and his desire to see the league move back to a big hitting league(which the NHL and it's partners clearly don't want)

It doesnt matter if the linesman had his hand up or not, Hughes didnt see the linesman put his hand up and made an assumption that put himself in a dangerous position - which he said himself. We teach the players you have to be aware at all times when the play is live.

The hit is the furthest thing from predatory as Hathaway also has no idea if the play is being blown dead or not. He is coming in for contact and is expecting at worst a reverse hit and at best a player prepared for the hit and ready to engage in body contact. Instead he got a wet noodle.

Define a "big hit". Any hit where the opposing player is unprepared will turn into a big hit. Players playing with heads down or unaware of their opponent are going to get hit in a big way. If the league didnt want hitting (big or small) they would ban all hitting. What the league doesnt want are hits to the head or predatory hits, which the Hughes hit was most certainly not.

Insofar as players policing themselves, they cannot rely on the referees to do it as they get more wrong than right which results in unsafe situations. Torts does not want a return to the Philly Flyers of the 70s. He wants players to be able to engage in contact without a fight happening after a player is hit or referees making the egregious mistakes that actually put more players in danger.

Again, I taught bodychecking to coaches and players at 11 years and up for a decade and have Hockey Canada certification to do so. I do not believe that the game when properly played puts players in danger, players do that themselves, and referees have exacerbated the problem.

But it’s a fast high speed game and there will be “big” collisions from time to time. If clean, the league will take them all day long.

 

[TheNumber4]

Haven’t really been following Hall in Chicago. Just now watched some videos of those injuries he suffered. Pretty brutal run he had over there in such a small amount of time:

Injury 1:


Injury 2:


Injury 2 play, Eyssimont grabs his arm the whole way pulling his body and causing the twist in the knee. Kinda dirty IMO, but it’s tough to tell cause of how fast the play happened.

Anyways, see what happens when you leave Edmonton.

Bring Hall Home.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Haven’t really been following Hall in Chicago. Just now watched some videos of those injuries he suffered. Pretty brutal run he had over there in such a small amount of time:

Injury 1:


Injury 2:


Injury 2 play, Eyssimont grabs his arm the whole way pulling his body and causing the twist in the knee. Kinda dirty IMO, but it’s tough to tell cause of how fast the play happened.

Anyways, see what happens when you leave Edmonton.

Bring Hall Home.

Its too bad. I still appreciate how he brings it and plays on that edge with speed. But thats gonna land with a bit of injuries. It was uncanny how Glenn Anderson was able to play the type of game he did and be so resilient to effects. For all the crashes Andy took there weren't commensurate injuries. But then he's probably strong fisherman stock. Guy was on fishinboats in Pacific when he was a kid. Built strong. Wonder how much of his beyond the pale sense of balance was due to spending so much time on the seas in fishing boats. heh, it could be training.

 

[mkatcherin00]

DAL killing Tampa 8-1

They sh** the bed against CGY twice. NHL makes no sense.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

DAL killing Tampa 8-1

They sh** the bed against CGY twice. NHL makes no sense.

The NHL is chock full of mediocre teams.

 

[GMofOilers]

Jesus Christ this kid is special

 

[mkatcherin00]

Looks like a Draisaitl like pass

 

[GMofOilers]

Looks like a Draisaitl like pass

At 18 years old

 

[bellagiobob]

DAL killing Tampa 8-1

They sh** the bed against CGY twice. NHL makes no sense.

Just had a couple of bad games, they are a really well rounded team with good depth. No F played more than 17 mins or less than 12 today.

 

[Drivesaitl]

DAL killing Tampa 8-1

They sh** the bed against CGY twice. NHL makes no sense.

Its what I said. Dallas are either very good or very bad in games. No inbetween. Strange club to figure out. Fortunately for them the very bad is the minority of time. When that team gets going on their transition game they are tough to play.

with their transition game though its hard to be in sync. Easy to off in passes and spaces and some days they just don't pack it.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

DAL killing Tampa 8-1

They sh** the bed against CGY twice. NHL makes no sense.

Tampa doesnt seem to be the same team as they once were. The shine has indeed started to wear off the Covid Cup Champions.

 

[yukoner88]

At 18 years old

All that talent and he can't even have a beer to celebrate with after

 

[RegDunlop]

Its too bad. I still appreciate how he brings it and plays on that edge with speed. But thats gonna land with a bit of injuries. It was uncanny how Glenn Anderson was able to play the type of game he did and be so resilient to effects. For all the crashes Andy took there weren't commensurate injuries. But then he's probably strong fisherman stock. Guy was on fishinboats in Pacific when he was a kid. Built strong. Wonder how much of his beyond the pale sense of balance was due to spending so much time on the seas in fishing boats. heh, it could be training.

I know he could drink like a sailor that's for sure!!

 

[FlameChampion]

Looks like Arizona is this year’s Seattle. I am sure they are better than last year. But feels like another team, that other teams just can’t get up for. Probably more worried about playing golf when they are there.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Leafs can't hey anything done in reg

They either miracle tie games or blow leads

5 reg wins in 20+ games

 

[VainGretzky]

Kesselring looks like a solid defender, looks like Oilers dropped the ball on another dman