Around the League - 2022 offseason thread

[Bleedred]

No, they would not have. Schneider is the only thing worth something, they could've gotten a 1st for him, but the other two were signed until 2020 and 2021 respectively; Greene maybe you get a 2nd round pick, Zajac was worth less than nothing.

I actually wonder if we could have even gotten a first for Schneider back in 2015, just because he was signed through 2022 and that was the first year of his deal. He was to turn 30 years old later that season, but was still a very low mileage 1986 when compared to guys like Jonathan Quick or an 87 like Carey Price or an 88 like Bobrovsky.

He definitely was the only thing of value though, Greene and Zajac were still good players, but would have merely been cap dumps. Both were early in their deals, both were already in their 30's and neither were quite as good at their positions as Schneider was at his at that time.

I think at the time the only particularly valuable pieces were Schneider, Larsson and maybe Henrique to a lesser extent. Larsson might have actually been more valuable than Schneider at the time, just because of his age, being a defenseman and still potentially having a high ceiling. He was only 22 years old and a 4th overall pick from 4 years earlier at the time of the regime change.

And as we saw, Larsson did return a PRETTY BIG piece. Although, I've always maintained and still maintain that Edmonton overpaid for him by giving us Taylor Hall one for one.

 

[JrFischer54]

NJ has one potential player from 2015, one good player from 2016, one good player from 2017, one good player from 2018. If NJ was getting two good players from half these drafts that's two more needle movers on NJ and the team would be better as a result. I'll give 2019 and more recent drafts more time to percolate but only getting one guy out of a draft is not going to really build the team without some luck in trades and UFA.


Watley does the drafting? That explains a lot. Did he also convert to scouting for the jokes?

this is why i've said the devils getting the #1 pick and not coming out of the draft without the best player really hurt this rebuild. no that doesn't mean i'm blaming them for not drafting cal. no that doesn't mean i would've drafted cal. just coming out of the draft with a good player at #1 instead of a tremendous player hurts. everyone will slam me for not agreeing that nico is a tremendous player but whatever i'm not denying the team doesn't need him just not at #1

 

[My3Sons]

this is why i've said the devils getting the #1 pick and not coming out of the draft without the best player really hurt this rebuild. no that doesn't mean i'm blaming them for not drafting cal. no that doesn't mean i would've drafted cal. just coming out of the draft with a good player at #1 instead of a tremendous player hurts. everyone will slam me for not agreeing that nico is a tremendous player but whatever i'm not denying the team doesn't need him just not at #1

If they had hit on a couple of extra guys it would seem like less of an issue. The problem is trying to ratchet another single top of the league guy doesn't make up for a bad team around them. I don't see the team much better if the only change is Nico for Makar. They still roll out Smith/Subban on the third pair and the goalies still implode and Wood is out and Mercer has to be the 2C all year even after he hits the rookie wall. Tatar has to play in the top six all season. It's still a very bad season. Look at the good teams like Colorado and TB, they have very good players down to the third line. Look at Toronto. Some really great players up top and then meh. The results reflect that in my view.

 

[Brodeur]

I actually wonder if we could have even gotten a first for Schneider back in 2015, just because he was signed through 2022 and that was the first year of his deal. He was to turn 30 years old later that season, but was still a very low mileage 1986 when compared to guys like Jonathan Quick or an 87 like Carey Price or an 88 like Bobrovsky.

Fun exercise to look up the goalie duos from not that long ago:

Florida: Luongo/Montoya
Tampa: Bishop/Vasilevskiy
Detroit: Mrazek/Howard
Boston: Rask/Gustavsson
Ottawa: Anderson/Hammond
Montreal: Price/Condon
Buffalo: Johnson/Ullmark/Lehner
Toronto: Bernier/Reimer

Washington: Holtby/Grubauer
Pittsburgh: Fleury/Murray
NY Rangers: Lundqvist/Raanta
NY Islanders: Greiss/Halak
Philadelphia: Mason/Neuvirth
Carolina: Ward/Lack
New Jersey: Schneider/Kinkaid
Columbus: Bobrovsky/Korpisalo

Dallas: Lehtonen/Niemi
St. Louis: Allen/Elliott
Chicago: Crawford/Darling
Nashville: Rinne/Hutton
Minnesota: Dubnyk/Kuemper
Colorado: Varlamov/Pickard
Winnipeg: Pavelec/Hutchinson/Hellebuyck

Anaheim: Andersen/Gibson
Los Angeles: Quick/Enroth
San Jose: Jones/Stalock
Arizona: Smith/Domingue
Calgary: Ramo/Hiller
Vancouver: Miller/Markstrom
Edmonton: Talbot/Nilsson

At the 2015 Draft, Carolina got Eddie Lack (3rd rounder) and Edmonton got Cam Talbot (2nd+3rd). After the draft, San Jose traded a future first to Boston for Martin Jones; I don't think San Jose had cap room for Schneider, part of the allure for Jones was that he was relatively cheap (3 mil) for a potential starter.

It was a different management group, but Edmonton wanted Schneider at the 2013 Draft but Vancouver didn't want to deal him within the division. Maybe there's a scenario where they could have given up the Griffin Reinhart picks (#16+#33) for Schneider but that would have been tough for Shero.

Lou would later get Freddy Andersen at the 2016 Draft for a late first rounder.

St. Louis maybe could have had interest but they had just burned a 1st rounder to rent Ryan Miller. I was at the 2015 Draft and sat by the Blues table with the hopes of getting a Brodeur autograph. I wish I had taken a video of their table during the 1st round. It was a dozen guys sitting silently staring off into space.

 

[JrFischer54]

If they had hit on a couple of extra guys it would seem like less of an issue. The problem is trying to ratchet another single top of the league guy doesn't make up for a bad team around them. I don't see the team much better if the only change is Nico for Makar. They still roll out Smith/Subban on the third pair and the goalies still implode and Wood is out and Mercer has to be the 2C all year even after he hits the rookie wall. Tatar has to play in the top six all season. It's still a very bad season. Look at the good teams like Colorado and TB, they have very good players down to the third line. Look at Toronto. Some really great players up top and then meh. The results reflect that in my view.

yeah i agree its putting lipstick on a pig but i still rather have him then not. truth is like you said missing on picking up a second or even third guy in some drafts is just devastating. you have kids playing in the same draft class and contributing already when we missed on smith and muk isn't even close to playing here. maybe albany being bad for so long really set this franchise back too with their development down there.

 

[tailfins]

I think Detroit could finish on par or better than us this year, but that's predicated on what their goaltending does. I certainly don't think their team is better than ours.

Nedeljkovic is basically Blackwood, only about a half a foot shorter. He also had a horrid season in the AHL just like Blackwood did. His AHL career leaves a lot to be desired.

How will Husso perform this year? And how will he perform if he's starting way more games than he did last year? He did have a TERRIBLE rookie season that was on par with the disaster that Blackwood just had. And those two seasons are all the data we have on him in the NHL.

I'm not exactly very high on the Devils having a great season this year and I'm sure you can guess why. I'm an atheist when it comes to our goaltending situation. We really need Vanecek to become the starter and actually perform well while doing it. Blackwood's AHL career would strongly hint that he's merely a mediocre goalie and that last year is what happens when an already mediocre goalie plays injured.

What I like is that the Red Wings invested in Cossa. I'm not sure how good he'll be or if Cossa vs Wallstedt was the right decision. But, the Wings have put a focus on finding someone long-term at the position.

I'm not against the Devils strategy of lottery picks on the mid to late rounds. But, That feels like a better approach when there's a reasonably long-term solution at the NHL level.

Btw - I'm not touting the Wings as some great story yet. But, their playoff streak ended in 2016 (4 years after ours), so they do seem a good comparable.

 

[Bleedred]

Fun exercise to look up the goalie duos from not that long ago:



At the 2015 Draft, Carolina got Eddie Lack (3rd rounder) and Edmonton got Cam Talbot (2nd+3rd). After the draft, San Jose traded a future first to Boston for Martin Jones; I don't think San Jose had cap room for Schneider, part of the allure for Jones was that he was relatively cheap (3 mil) for a potential starter.

It was a different management group, but Edmonton wanted Schneider at the 2013 Draft but Vancouver didn't want to deal him within the division. Maybe there's a scenario where they could have given up the Griffin Reinhart picks (#16+#33) for Schneider but that would have been tough for Shero.

Lou would later get Freddy Andersen at the 2016 Draft for a late first rounder.

St. Louis maybe could have had interest but they had just burned a 1st rounder to rent Ryan Miller. I was at the 2015 Draft and sat by the Blues table with the hopes of getting a Brodeur autograph. I wish I had taken a video of their table during the 1st round. It was a dozen guys sitting silently staring off into space.

Ahh, that's right. That was the summer of goalie overpayment.

Particularly the Jones and Lehner trades. I actually thought Andersen made more sense in being worth a first round pick. He had shown to be a MUCH better goalie than Jones or Lehner at the time, and he had also played 125 regular season games, whereas Jones had only played 34 regular season games in the NHL at age 25. His first season was really good. His second season was not, but he also only played 15 games that year and started only 11.

 

[Bleedred]

What I like is that the Red Wings invested in Cossa. I'm not sure how good he'll be or if Cossa vs Wallstedt was the right decision. But, the Wings have put a focus on finding someone long-term at the position.

I'm not against the Devils strategy of lottery picks on the mid to late rounds. But, That feels like a better approach when there's a reasonably long-term solution at the NHL level.

Btw - I'm not touting the Wings as some great story yet. But, their playoff streak ended in 2016 (4 years after ours), so they do seem a good comparable.

I feel like the Wings from 2016 to 2019 were basically like us in the last Lou years. The GM wouldn't rebuild, but they were also not anywhere near good enough to compete.

I think the biggest difference is also that Ken Holland signed A LOT of bad contracts there. So Yzerman took over a team that had more bad contracts than the team Shero took over from Lou.

I've always said that about Lou, that while he signed many bad contracts throughout the years, there was really none that we were left with by the time he left. The Schneider contract became bad 2-3 years later and the Cammalleri contract became bad a year or so later, the Zajac contract wasn't great (but it really wasn't bad either), but I don't think there were really any bad contracts. There were a couple of guys still serving out the final year of the deals they already had. Or were bought out from them. The Zubrus contract was one of them, but it only had a year left and since the 35+ rule still existed at the time, we just had his entire cap hit for the year he didn't play here and there was nothing left of it after that year.

Zubrus getting a 3 year deal was highly questionable to me at the time and he became unplayable, but there was only a year left when Lou was ousted.

I think Cammalleri was the only particularly not great one that wasn't set to expire by the next year, and at the time Lou was last here, Cammalleri was still a pretty good player. He just had too much term left and was already 33 years old.

 

[Guttersniped]

Like us, I’m also not a believer in Ottawa’s goaltending for me to really be a believer that they’ll do much damage.

They’re made up of Anton Forsberg, who is turning 30 years old in November and has played games in the league for the last 8 years, but couldn’t crack the league full time/stay in the league until just last year. Even they got him off waivers the year before. And they signed him for 3 years based off of last season. It’s almost like Wedgewood having a season like Forsberg did last year (he wasn’t quite as good) and getting a 3 year deal out of it.

And then you got Cam Talbot, who has been a pretty poor goalie based on his goals saved above expected and appears to have been propped up a little bit playing behind Minnesota. He likely wont have that benefit playing behind Ottawa. And he turns 36 years old before this year ends.

I’m no more of a believer in their goaltending than I am ours. And there’s not many teams that I’d definitely rank below us in terms of goaltending coming into this season.

Forsberg is turning 30 in Nov and has had good seasons behind a not good defense. (He didn’t play much at all in 2020-21 but I can only go on what I have.)

Talbot was meh at best* while cocooned within one of the most stout, “goaltenders’ best friend” defenses in the league.

Put it this way, if I was playing fantasy hockey I wouldn’t touch Talbot with a 10 foot pole. He’s now 35, he’s stingy with quality starts and he doesn’t steal games. Until Ottawa gets a new coach and better defense I’m not buying (though Sanderson is without a doubt an exciting top prospect).

Also if I was in a keeper league I would murder people to get Wallstedt but that’s beside the point. Hell, Gustavsson might be kind of decent on the Wild.

*I think I’m being generous with “meh” but I’m not a fan (and the underlying numbers aren’t fans either).

 

[Bleedred]

Forsberg is turning 30 in Nov and has had good seasons behind a not good defense. (He didn’t play much at all in 2020-21 but I can only go on what I have.)

Talbot was meh at best* while cocooned within one of the most stout, “goaltenders’ best friend” defenses in the league.

Put it this way, if I was playing fantasy hockey I wouldn’t touch Talbot with a 10 foot pole. He’s now 35, he’s stingy with quality starts and he doesn’t steal games. Until Ottawa gets a new coach and better defense I’m not buying (though Sanderson is without a doubt an exciting top prospect).

Also if I was in a keeper league I would murder people to get Wallstedt but that’s beside the point. Hell, Gustavsson might be kind of decent on the Wild.

*I think I’m being generous with “meh” but I’m not a fan (and the underlying numbers aren’t fans either).

Outside of last year, Forsberg has been a - in goals saved above expected most years until last season. He just barely broke below even the year before, but he only played 8 games that year. He was a +1.68 in 15-16, but only played 4 games that year. And the last two years are the only years he's been a + in goals saved against average,

Talbot has been a - in goals saved above expected every year since 18-19. He was a + every year he played in the league before that. His save percentage and goals saved against average were poor his last full year in Edmonton in 17-18, but he actually had a +2.09 in goals saved above expected.

Now, the last 3 years he's been a plus in goals saved against average/save percentage, but has been a minus in goals saved above expected, although just by barely in 19-20.

These trends would certainly suggest that Talbot is in for a rough time in Ottawa or with any team that doesn't have a good defense, which both Minnesota and even Calgary (and that was pre-Sutter) seemed to have.

 

[NJDevs26]

Cuts keep cutting at The Athletic.

Devils (along with several other teams) already lost their beat reporter, the site now has obnoxiously large ads and they're still apparently cutting back on staff:

Yikes glad I let my subscription expire recently…I haven’t even really used it much the last few months as is, not that it didn’t have good content but there certainly wasn’t enough Devils stuff and the Mets/Jets get a shitload of traditional media coverage as is

 

[OmNomNom]

I really liked Slafkovsky as a prospect so ive been keeping tabs on his Habs prospect thread and its hella bad.

"he's a bust"
"He was a reach"
"Liga stats!"
"his play is very concerning"

etc

french canadiens are so dramatic

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

If the Athletic can't survive it's basically hobbyists and PR representatives doing all the sports reporting. Or ESPN+'s PR representatives doing some reporting too, as an add on for a subscription to their service.

 

[HBK27]

If the Athletic can't survive it's basically hobbyists and PR representatives doing all the sports reporting. Or ESPN+'s PR representatives doing some reporting too, as an add on for a subscription to their service.

Maybe these moves will help them survive, but personally I won't ever pay full price when there's so little Devils content.

They have one guy covering the Kings & Ducks - not sure why their writers for the Rangers and Islanders can't toss the Devils some content. They've completely given up on covering this team.

 

[NJDevs26]

Maybe these moves will help them survive, but personally I won't ever pay full price when there's so little Devils content.

They have one guy covering the Kings & Ducks - not sure why their writers for the Rangers and Islanders can't toss the Devils some content. They've completely given up on covering this team.

They sorta did that last year ‘loaning’ us Shayna from the Ranger beat

 

[HBK27]

They sorta did that last year ‘loaning’ us Shayna from the Ranger beat

Maybe she'll give us a few articles this season - as her look at Nemec 3 months ago was the last Devils specific content the site has produced. Since then, she's been focused on the team previews and fantasy hockey articles.

 

[RangerDoggo]

They sorta did that last year ‘loaning’ us Shayna from the Ranger beat

I’d rather have no writers than have a confirmed Rangers fan on the Athletic beat, if I’m being honest.

 

[Bone Density]

 

[Devils731]

It sounds funny but late in a game you’re losing or against a 4th line after an icing, going 4 forwards and 1 defenseman could be more beneficial than not.

 

[MauDevils]

Tweet is deleted. Was it the idiotic plan to have Marner play defense?

 

[Bone Density]

yes

 

[MartyOwns]

that’s some galaxy brain shit right there. throw matthews in net and let’s get nuts

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

In 20 years the players will all be rovers, or it will look like basketball basically with guards/defensemen heavily involved in offense.

 

[Brodeur]

Tweet is deleted. Was it the idiotic plan to have Marner play defense?

It's interesting, seems more of a situational thing not a permanent thing. Down by a goal, last minute of a period with an offensive zone draw, etc. Sergei Fedorov dabbled on defense occasionally for Scottie Bowman.

Maybe not coincidentally the Leafs had a couple depth D get hurt last night and Rasmus Sandin just signed this morning, so perhaps giving Marner some reps was easier today. With Timothy Liljegren hurt, Toronto's down to one right shot D projected for its opening night roster.

If they were loading up in a situation where they're not pulling the goalie, they could roll with Tavares-Matthews-Nylander-Rielly-Marner for a shift which could be fun.

 

[Patrik26]

That's a hit Scott Stevens would have been proud to call his own.

My exact first thought. Lindros 2.0