Around the League 2022-23 season

[SettlementRichie10]

My wife works pretty closely with the Phoenix Coyotes, and she says they're an absolute nightmare to deal with.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

My wife works pretty closely with the Phoenix Coyotes, and she says they're an absolute nightmare to deal with.

I can imagine. So much rapid (relatively) change, and turnover, and circumstances....even if everyone was great the lack of stability alone would make it suck hard.

 

[KINGS17]

I'm in the small minority but after seeing this i think it might be a good thing for the Coyotes. That barn is absolutely ROCKING and even though your'e going to shrink the arena for a bit its' going to be f***ing wild packing that thing and might actually be a good thing in the long run

The best hockey team in Arizona. The Arizona State University Sun Devils.

They still have their work cut out for them to get into the post season. They are going to have to get a split with some pretty good teams (mostly play two game series), and then sweep the lesser competition.

 

[Fishhead]

That's arguable, but I don't even mind the practice of marinating players.

It's:
1 - the assertion by posters here that playing players at a young age will ruin them
2 - the lack of flexibility of how forward prospects get opportunity
3 - the org's complete comfort in giving defensive prospects opportunity

Yeah, every player is certainly different. Vilardi has taken a good path, but it was expected given his injury. Byfield, I'd like to see get some more time in key situations. It's not like he's been terrible, he can handle more than he is given. Arty has been up and down. Some is on the org, but a lot of it is also on him.

I will say if you look at some of those Arizona players, lack of stability and bringing them up too early has ruined them - Hayton in particular. They completely put him in the revolving door and it was the worst thing to do for him. It didn't ruin Crouse, but, took him a long time to get confidence going. Doesn't mean it will happen with every player, though, not everyone is a Yakupov. I certainly don't think it would have ruined Byfield.

 

[Sybil227]

Did anyone else watch the ANA vs TB game? That was painful. TB so desperately wanted the Ducks to win, and the Ducks were all, "Nope." I don't know if we tired TB out or what, but lazy passing, poor coverage..
TB: "Go ahead, score. Here's a scoring opportunity. YOU get a scoring chance, and YOU get a scoring chance, and YOU, and YOU...."
ANA: "There's a law in Orange County against shooting the puck..."

Not a pretty game.

 

[Fishhead]

Did anyone else watch the ANA vs TB game? That was painful. TB so desperately wanted the Ducks to win, and the Ducks were all, "Nope." I don't know if we tired TB out or what, but lazy passing, poor coverage..
TB: "Go ahead, score. Here's a scoring opportunity. YOU get a scoring chance, and YOU get a scoring chance, and YOU, and YOU...."
ANA: "There's a law in Orange County against shooting the puck..."

Not a pretty game.

I can't figure out what they are doing in Anaheim. They have a few nice young pieces, but Drysdale is getting murdered out there in his own zone. Who's he learning defense from? Klingberg? Kulikov? Fowler is someone to look up to but he's never been a defensive stalwart.

Troy Terry is a great player, Zegras is one-dimensional but exciting. McTavish will be a pretty good one but so far this year looks to be in over his head. Comtois and Jones aren't anything. Lundestrom is OK, I guess. By the time they even start to put it together Gibson will be getting up there and they'll waste the rest of his prime years.

Just a weird rebuild, reeks of cheap management and internal caps.

 

[Bandit]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a bad look for the league, I mostly agree with every detail there. But for the franchise, I see so much of the boldfaced, so with a packed barn, different atmosphere...you get what I'm saying!

What happens when they don’t even sell out this rink?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Just a weird rebuild, reeks of cheap management and internal caps.

I don't know, it makes me think this is the exact kind of 'rebuild' many posters around here expected and wanted the Kings to orchestrate.

 

[YP44]

i definitely want to try and get down to Arizona for game while they are in the small barn

 

[AbsentMojo]

i definitely want to try and get down to Arizona for game while they are in the small barn

Now that AZ is in the central, they dont play much.. doing a quick check Kings only there once this season

 

[bland]

That's part of it, but you would think throwing all those young guys who were higher draft picks in there would have yielded more than one great player. I still think Arizona is a terrible example.

Garland turned out damn well for a 5th rounder I would say. He spent 2 years in the AHL despite getting close to 130 points in juniors his last 2 years. It paid off.

Dvorak didn't get any AHL time, late 2nd round pick. Solid I would say, but not great. In the 30 point range every year.

They brought up Fisher who was a high 2nd, put him in the A for a year then brought him up. Had a decent year when he was 20/21 but hasn't done shit since. Brought up way too early.

Hayton was 5th overall, they brought him in right away. That didn't work, so they sent him down. Then in Europe for a few games, then back to Phx. Then up and down. He's shown no sign of doing anything, they should have let him develop somewhere stable rather than try to force it. He looks like a bust at the moment.

Keller was 7th overall. Brought him up right away and he succeeded. Definitely the gem of their group. Had that great year right away, but then trailed off for a bit. Solidly in the 40 point range with a couple 60+ seasons. He's their biggest success of any player brought in right away.

Crouse was brought up right away with only a couple AHL games. Didn't do much, sent him down for half a season then right back up. 11th overall and his peak so far is the 24 points last year. He looks solid so far this year, but he didn't start scoring until after his AHL year. Had they did that right away, he'd be a much better player.

So.... bringing all those guys up early led to one really good player in Keller. That's it. Had they treated them all like Garland they would be in a lot better shape.

It isn't that the Kings should have brought the prospects in sooner, its that they should have been put into situations to succeed by playing to their strengths instead of working on their weaknesses.

Its a double-edged failure. On one hand you aren't allowing kids to expand their talents and confidence by putting them in scenarios in which they can comfortably and consistently work on adapting the attributes that made them worth rebuilding, and on the other hand you are weakening the current team by having players struggle in situations they aren't ready or suited for at that stage of their careers.

Its a path to mediocre present and it harms, or at the very least delays the development of the future. If the Kings were a consistent playoff team and had a hot shot rookie or two coming up, I could see the value in the delay tactics, but they THOUGHT that they were better than they really were for a long, long time and badly needed to change direction. Instead they just changed lanes.

 

[Kudelski37]

It isn't that the Kings should have brought the prospects in sooner, its that they should have been put into situations to succeed by playing to their strengths instead of working on their weaknesses.

On one hand you aren't allowing kids to expand their talents

I see these two statements as direct contradictions. Working on weaknesses IS expanding talents. You see baseball prospects get sent down to work on hitting a curve ball or taking the ball the other way. You can't have an easily exploitable weakness and have sustained success at the highest league in baseball or hockey. Constant failure kills confidence.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It isn't that the Kings should have brought the prospects in sooner, its that they should have been put into situations to succeed by playing to their strengths instead of working on their weaknesses.

Its a double-edged failure. On one hand you aren't allowing kids to expand their talents and confidence by putting them in scenarios in which they can comfortably and consistently work on adapting the attributes that made them worth rebuilding, and on the other hand you are weakening the current team by having players struggle in situations they aren't ready or suited for at that stage of their careers.

Its a path to mediocre present and it harms, or at the very least delays the development of the future. If the Kings were a consistent playoff team and had a hot shot rookie or two coming up, I could see the value in the delay tactics, but they THOUGHT that they were better than they really were for a long, long time and badly needed to change direction. Instead they just changed lanes.

A doubled edged failure. Just such final and emphatic statements. They have yet to fail though. Nothing is settled. They haven't lost any prospects. Maybe Turcotte with be nothing whatsoever, but that's injury. They might fail in whatever it is they're trying to do, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Fishhead]

It isn't that the Kings should have brought the prospects in sooner, its that they should have been put into situations to succeed by playing to their strengths instead of working on their weaknesses.

Its a double-edged failure. On one hand you aren't allowing kids to expand their talents and confidence by putting them in scenarios in which they can comfortably and consistently work on adapting the attributes that made them worth rebuilding, and on the other hand you are weakening the current team by having players struggle in situations they aren't ready or suited for at that stage of their careers.

Its a path to mediocre present and it harms, or at the very least delays the development of the future. If the Kings were a consistent playoff team and had a hot shot rookie or two coming up, I could see the value in the delay tactics, but they THOUGHT that they were better than they really were for a long, long time and badly needed to change direction. Instead they just changed lanes.

I generally agree with this, there is not always worth in putting players in roles they wont be playing unless its on a temporary basis. However following that path is not close to a guarantee, and there are just as many examples where it didn’t work out. It doesn’t always harm or delay development, either. Certainly not any more than players who were put in higher pressure spots on the top lines and fell apart. I would argue that the players thrown into the fire too early who don’t experience success right away are more likely to crash and burn, while guys eased in have a much higher chance of becoming solid NHL players down the road.

The key is understanding the prospect in question. If you can evaluate them correctly and make the right decision, you will get the maximum out of them regardless if they come directly into the league, go straight onto the top lines, go to the AHL, or cut their teeth on the 4th line. And regardless of opinion, the only absolute is there aren’t any absolutes.

 

[mysterman2]

Ducks recap for every game in 22/23- Terry and Zegras with goals; Ducks lose 5-2.

 

[Telos]

My wife works pretty closely with the Phoenix Coyotes, and she says they're an absolute nightmare to deal with.

This is because of their ownership. I live in Reno, Nevada and the same people that own the Arizona Coyotes own properties here as well and vendors in Arizona and Nevada have pretty unilaterally stated that working with the ownership group have been the worst experiences they've ever had. They operate like a mob, they fail to pay their own bills on time and literally send like a group of guys to negotiate payments owed in person from them to force them to accept less than what was agreed upon and to collect any payments owed immediately and in full for anything owed back to the ownership group.

 

[bland]

A doubled edged failure. Just such final and emphatic statements. They have yet to fail though. Nothing is settled. They haven't lost any prospects. Maybe Turcotte with be nothing whatsoever, but that's injury. They might fail in whatever it is they're trying to do, but it hasn't happened yet.

Its not the failure of the players, its the failure of the franchise.

Think about the fleet, not the individual boats. This organization hasn't won a playoff series in 8 years, missed the playoffs in 5 of those, including a stretch with just 1 single playoff game won in 7 seasons. Yet the same core players are in the same spots with the same minutes in the same situations.

The organization is failing because it won't embrace the changes that need to be made. If your assertion is that this is all part of a process and its too early to judge the success, well I completely disagree. You can break it down by season, portions of seasons, several seasons as a group - whatever incremental limit you want, and it is impossible to point to any of them as a situation that was a success. They stumbled forward last year NOT because they are seeing the fruits of the rebuild, but because they went out and bought a 2nd line.

 

[King'sPawn]

I see these two statements as direct contradictions. Working on weaknesses IS expanding talents. You see baseball prospects get sent down to work on hitting a curve ball or taking the ball the other way. You can't have an easily exploitable weakness and have sustained success at the highest league in baseball or hockey. Constant failure kills confidence.

Expanding talents relative to role.

Having a sniper work on different kinds of shots, breakouts, zone entries, and puck protection is different from having a sniper learn to grind, kill penalties, etc.

Right now it's like the Kings are training their pitchers to be power hitters.

Edit: and to be clear, it's not a problem with adding to the repertoire - but there is an issue that a sniper is put into a grinding role before they get a sniper role.

 

[bland]

I see these two statements as direct contradictions. Working on weaknesses IS expanding talents. You see baseball prospects get sent down to work on hitting a curve ball or taking the ball the other way. You can't have an easily exploitable weakness and have sustained success at the highest league in baseball or hockey. Constant failure kills confidence.

Totally irrelevant. Byfield isn't going to develop into a top offensive player by seeing time with Brown and Athanasiou. Kaliyev doesn't need to be a 200ft player to maximize his ability - he is a weapon that needs to be used as such so he can learn how to score at this level. Vilardi, jesus, if there is ever a player who HAD to be put into offensive situations to succeed its him.

It took 5 years before they put Kempe in a plavr to maximize his talents. Was he helped by.yhe way he was handled? The constant lack of attention to detail and blown coverages tell you that he wasn't "developed" properly as much as he was just unleashed.

The kids aren't supposed to be plug and play options for a team with playoff aspirations. One or two of them on a better team, sure, but there are 8 or 9 in a rebuilding situation that requires more patience with team results. Best case scenario sees them establish themselves based on developing their strengths while the team grows around them and they learn what they need to do to take the next step.

 

[shuchukfan]

Any idea why the Ducks/Knights game is at 3pm tomorrow in Vegas? Seems like a weird start time for a weekday.

 

[bouncesonly]

Any idea why the Ducks/Knights game is at 3pm tomorrow in Vegas? Seems like a weird start time for a weekday.

Ducks and Knights have an agreement to rage after the game.

 

[Fishhead]

Any idea why the Ducks/Knights game is at 3pm tomorrow in Vegas? Seems like a weird start time for a weekday.

After watching a few Ducks games this year they probably just want to get it over with. Showered by 6 and out on the town!

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Any idea why the Ducks/Knights game is at 3pm tomorrow in Vegas? Seems like a weird start time for a weekday.

The old “businessman’s special” like the Dodgers do when they need to fly out of town? Lol.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Totally irrelevant. Byfield isn't going to develop into a top offensive player by seeing time with Brown and Athanasiou. Kaliyev doesn't need to be a 200ft player to maximize his ability - he is a weapon that needs to be used as such so he can learn how to score at this level. Vilardi, jesus, if there is ever a player who HAD to be put into offensive situations to succeed its him.

It took 5 years before they put Kempe in a plavr to maximize his talents. Was he helped by.yhe way he was handled? The constant lack of attention to detail and blown coverages tell you that he wasn't "developed" properly as much as he was just unleashed.

The kids aren't supposed to be plug and play options for a team with playoff aspirations. One or two of them on a better team, sure, but there are 8 or 9 in a rebuilding situation that requires more patience with team results. Best case scenario sees them establish themselves based on developing their strengths while the team grows around them and they learn what they need to do to take the next step.

It’s absolutely bananas how much more you know about running a successful sports franchise than the people who actually get paid to do it.

What do you for a living? I hope whatever it is, it’s utilizing your noticeable talent.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Totally irrelevant. Byfield isn't going to develop into a top offensive player by seeing time with Brown and Athanasiou. Kaliyev doesn't need to be a 200ft player to maximize his ability - he is a weapon that needs to be used as such so he can learn how to score at this level. Vilardi, jesus, if there is ever a player who HAD to be put into offensive situations to succeed its him.

It took 5 years before they put Kempe in a plavr to maximize his talents. Was he helped by.yhe way he was handled? The constant lack of attention to detail and blown coverages tell you that he wasn't "developed" properly as much as he was just unleashed.

The kids aren't supposed to be plug and play options for a team with playoff aspirations. One or two of them on a better team, sure, but there are 8 or 9 in a rebuilding situation that requires more patience with team results. Best case scenario sees them establish themselves based on developing their strengths while the team grows around them and they learn what they need to do to take the next step.

Can we see a SUCCESSFUL rebuild.....following your plan?

I mean, Buffalo, Arizona, Detroit, Ottawa, Edmonton (finally showing fruit after what, decade of 1st round picks) is there a team that you feel has done exactly what you advocate for, AND won?