Around the League - 2022-23 Season Edition

[hockeywiz542]

Learning from the drafting of Toronto under Kyle Dubas

What does the past say about what Kyle Dubas likes to do (and avoid) in the NHL draft?

www.pensburgh.com

Now that Kyle Dubas is getting to work in Pittsburgh to shape and guide the future of the Penguins, what better time to look back at his history in Toronto? Today we’ll dive into the history and performance of Dubas in the NHL draft and later on in the week dig into the trades and free agency signings that he has done in the past.

Dubas was the full general manager from 2018-2023, so we will concentrate mainly on that, though it is worth pointing out that he is often credited in his stint as assistant general manager to help make decisions to select players like Mitch Marner, Travis Dermott, Joseph Woll, Timothy Lilejgren and others in the years prior while he was an assistant GM for the Maple Leafs.

As GM, Dubas made 35 total draft picks for Toronto over the years, an average of 7.0 per draft. This amount is skewed higher from the 2020 draft, when the Leafs had six total picks late in the draft’s final two rounds.

................

While his tendencies can be all over the board, some trends and tenets of Dubas to boiled down into nice, little bite-sized bullet points would be:

• Heavy on forwards early in the draft, with no particular preference in what area in the world they come from

• Lots of right handed defensemen

• Eventually an emphasis on US players later in the draft

• Probably drafting a goalie at some point, but only during Round 4 or later

• More of a European haul (especially in Russia) than most other NHL teams in the modern era

• Lack of frequent first round picks, but keeping second rounders

• Despite a willingness to get a big guy like Matthew Knies, general forward profile of draftees trends towards smaller, higher-skilled type of players. Pittsburgh kid Ty Voit (fifth round pick in 2021) could be perfect example of that- has blossomed into the OHL’s second-leading scorer in 2022-23 with 105 points, despite being listed at 5’9 and 151 pounds. Not all Toronto players are that small, but under Dubas they’ve definitely been looking for the “next Jake Guentzel” types who might be small on draft day but have high ceilings for the future.

• Generally defensively, Toronto was compiling puck moving defensemen (Sandin, Durzi) with skating/IQ qualities over physical profiles.

• Trading down to accumulate more picks has been common for Dubas with examples in 2022 (moving back in the first round to ditch Petr Mrazek’s bad contract and again dealing back in the third round), and again 2020 (when he traded back in the second round), 2018 (in the first round) and as an interim GM in 2015 Dubas traded down twice in the first round. [/SIZE]Save for dealing a 2023-fourth rounder to get back into the fourth round in 2022, trading up hasn’t been a strategy often used.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Great deal for the Habs

 

[Mess]

Its been a little while, so why are we not hearing any news from Mirtle, Siegel and Johnston about Matt Murray being re-united with his former GM in Pittsburgh yet. who claimed he was trying to work on Pens goaltending?

Once Murray is off the Leafs books I'd like to see Treliving go hard after Connor Hellebuyck for the Leafs.

 

[ZEBROA]

Blue Jackets Sunday Gathering: Intention to hire Mike Babcock conjures memories of two previous coaching hires

The Blue Jackets have a history of turning to strict, demanding coaches when they lose their way as an organization.

theathletic.com

When news broke on Saturday that the Blue Jackets intend to hire Mike Babcock as soon as his contract expires with Toronto at the end of the month, the response across the hockey world was a mixture of incredulity and scorn.

Babcock, 60, has been one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game, but his reputation was sullied after he was fired by Toronto early in the 2019-20 season.

Stories surfaced involving former players Mitch Marner (Toronto) and Johan Franzen (Detroit) who alleged verbal and mental abuse under Babcock. He hasn’t coached in the NHL since, although he interviewed with Washington the following summer.

To be clear, Hitchcock and Tortorella have never been accused of mentally or verbally abusing players to the degree that Babcock has, but the response this weekend to the Blue Jackets’ decision to hire Babcock conjured images of those two previous hirings.

In both cases, the reputations did not meet the reality. Hitchcock and Tortorella both established order in the dressing room and high expectations on the ice. There were difficult days over the course of a season where relationships became frayed, absolutely.

But most players look back on their experiences with Hitchcock and Tortorella as positives. Jake Voracek and Nash have credited Hitchcock for helping to launch their NHL careers. Zach Werenski, Cam Atkinson, Seth Jones and others will always defend Tortorella.

When the Blue Jackets lose their way as an organization — and let’s be honest, they’ve spent most of their 23 seasons wandering aimlessly — they turn to strict, demanding coaches who set high standards and insist on players meeting them.

These are not always easy people to be around, and the Blue Jackets will have to fill out Babcock’s coaching staff accordingly. Hitchcock and Tortorella both needed assistant coaches to build up young players after particularly tough practices or to tell the coach when they’re pushing too hard on the pedal.

Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen, under immense pressure to get this hire right, will need to keep a close eye on Babcock and his relationship with players, just as he did throughout Tortorella’s tenure in Columbus.

But these coaches have typically served the Blue Jackets very well. Five of the franchise’s six playoff berths have come with Tortorella (four) and Hitchcock (one). With Hitchcock and Tortorella, the franchise had a .543 points percentage. All other coaches combined? A .447 points percentage.

It is telling that Babcock was one of the first candidates to interview for the job after Brad Larsen was fired in mid-April. Kekalainen insisted that associate coach Pascal Vincent was a candidate, but that the imperative was to land a coach who could restore a professional atmosphere in the dressing room.

In that sense, the hiring of Babcock should not be a surprise. Their interest in Patrick Roy and a willingness to consider Joel Quenneville for the NHL (if he were reinstated by the league) was proof that they were looking for a firm, demanding coach.

The Blue Jackets clearly believe Babcock’s version of the stories regarding Marner, Franzen and others, that the way he’s been castigated since his firing in Toronto has been wildly inaccurate and deeply unfair.

Franzen said Babcock was well prepared for games and a good coach in that way, But not good as a coach to player. Even Zetterberg said Babcocks way of coaching was outdated, even if he and Babcock always cleared things out. The lashing out on players and staff for no reason was probably true. But if it still is, who knows.

No matter what , if i was CBJ i would find a coach with a modern take on hockey.

 

[Mess]

Franzen said Babcock was well prepared for games and a good coach in that way, But not good as a coach to player. Even Zetterberg said Babcocks way of coaching was outdated, even if he and Babcock always cleared things out. The lashing out on players and staff for no reason was probably true. But if it still is, who knows.

No matter what , if i was CBJ i would find a coach with a modern take on hockey.

CBJ has already tried Hitchcock and Torts so they're not afraid to ignore personality and age and rely on winning %.

Babcock also the 5th fastest NHL coach to record 700 wins in a career,

 

[Menzinger]

Franzen said Babcock was well prepared for games and a good coach in that way, But not good as a coach to player. Even Zetterberg said Babcocks way of coaching was outdated, even if he and Babcock always cleared things out. The lashing out on players and staff for no reason was probably true. But if it still is, who knows.

No matter what , if i was CBJ i would find a coach with a modern take on hockey.

Now that Sutter is out of a job, there's ver few NHL coaches, if any now that follow a similar style.

Torts is often perceived as such, but he's really more of a players coach off the ice (apparently)

 

[Fogelhund]

9.52% of the cap, for .68 PPG over 123 games in his first three seasons.

Nylander
8.76% of the cap, for .72 PPG over 185 games in his first three seasons.

Caufields is an ok contract, a touch on the high for comparables, but not bad.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Bet the under on him lasting the full 7 years. Those post Crosby Malkin years will be dark.

I would think he could stay the full 7 if he hires a GM to take the brunt of the shitty years coming up and then fire him after 4yrs and insert himself as GM when all the smoke clears up a bit.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

According to NHL insiders including James Mirtle and Elliotte Friedman, Pittsburgh Penguins President of Hockey Operations Kyle Dubas is interested in hiring away Brandon Pridham, Wes Clark, Darryl Metcalf, as well as other members of the Toronto Maple Leafs’ analytics department.

Here is an article from The Athletic which profiles Wes Clark, current Director of Amateur Scouting and Assistant Director of Player Personnel for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

‘He’s that silent assassin’: Wes Clark is helping Kyle Dubas shape the Leafs

As the Leafs continue to forge a path as a forward-thinking organization, Clark’s influence will likely only continue to grow.

theathletic.com

(Top photo of John Tavares, Wes Clark and Matt Moulson: Courtesy of Richard Clark)

July 8, 2020

As the 2018 NHL Draft inched closer, Jason Bukala and Wes Clark continued to argue.

Bukala, the Florida Panthers’ director of amateur scouting, and Clark, an amateur scout with the organization, couldn’t agree on whether to select Peterborough Petes forward Semyon Der-Arguchintsev. The forward was skilled but small.

If he was available beyond the second round, Clark believed they should take him. Bukala disagreed. With other undersized prospects in the system, Bukala didn’t want to add too many of the same body types to their pool.

The Panthers never got the opportunity as Der-Arguchintsev was selected in the third round, 76th overall, by the Maple Leafs.

It was a typical suggestion from Clark, who made a name for himself with the Panthers by looking beyond size and other typical hockey attributes.

“He’s a very deep thinker,” Bukala said. “He digs in on players but he also understands the vision of the organization and the leadership ahead of him and what they’re looking for in players.”

Clark has brought those attributes with him to Toronto, where he works as the Leafs’ assistant director of player personnel and, unofficially, Kyle Dubas’ right-hand advisor. He is unorthodox and influential. And although he was among Craig Custance’s list of the top 40 under 40 shaping the NHL’s future in 2018, he still operated largely behind the scenes. Many Leafs fans would be justified in not knowing his name. The Leafs declined to make Clark available for this story.

But those who know Clark say he is one of the more unique people in professional hockey. As the Leafs continue to forge a path as a progressive, forward-thinking organization, Clark’s influence will likely only continue to grow.

“He thinks so differently from so many people in the hockey world,” said Brandon DeFazio, a longtime friend and recent KHL player. “He appreciates so many different things that often aren’t valued at a high level.”

It was called the “Dungeon.”

Richard Clark’s homemade gym in the basement of his Oakville home didn’t have air conditioning and was stuffed with as much old gym equipment he could find.

“It was archaic,” said Richard Clark, Wes’ father. “But it worked.”

In the late ’90s and early 2000s, the “Dungeon” was where local athletes found the kind of intense workouts they couldn’t get elsewhere. Richard had tried working out with his son and his son’s friend Matt Moulson at a local YMCA. But Clark didn’t want to be seen around his father, whose workouts were considerably aggressive.

And so they gathered with other local teenage hockey players in the “Dungeon” to push each other.

If this is what Dubas will fight over...let him have his buddy Wes IMO. He is afflicted with small mans syndrome and was probably a significant reason a lot of our players drafted outside of Matt Knies are all 5'10 and 175lbs. We have seen that trying to reinvent the wheel is not working and I doubt it will ever work. If the playoffs are a game where 80% of the time the players and puck are within 3ft of the boards, I think there is a reason we come up short every year.

 

[Mess]

9.52% of the cap, for .68 PPG over 123 games in his first three seasons.

Nylander
8.76% of the cap, for .72 PPG over 185 games in his first three seasons.

Caufields is an ok contract, a touch on the high for comparables, but not bad.

Don't forget 4 full years of UFA were purchased as well from Caufield and its those years that are the costly ones.

Nylander's contract included 4 full years of RFA and only 2 X UFA ones.

So there is a apples vs oranges direct comparison here in play to factor in.

 

[Fogelhund]

Don't forget 4 full years of UFA were purchased as well from Caufield and its those years that are the costly ones.

Nylander's contract included 4 full years of RFA and only 2 X UFA ones.

So there is a apples vs oranges direct comparison here in play to factor in.

Sure.. but then there is the small guy often injured risk in there too. He's missed a lot of time, not unlike Nick Robertson... shoulder injuries from checks. Nylander had played 50% more games, due to being more durable.

 

[Dekes For Days]

CBJ has already tried Hitchcock and Torts so they're not afraid to ignore personality and age and rely on winning %.

You didn't show winning percentage. You showed total wins, and ignored the corresponding losses that created pretty mediocre winning percentages for the coaches you named.

 

[Mess]

Sure.. but then there is the small guy often injured risk in there too. He's missed a lot of time, not unlike Nick Robertson... shoulder injuries from checks. Nylander had played 50% more games, due to being more durable.

No question I'd prefer to give Nylander $7 mil before I would Caufield for the very reason size and durability fear.

In fact my prefered deal at the time was 8 X $7.5 for Nylander.

 

[Menzinger]

Great deal for the Habs

It's a decent gamble. But it's definitely one based on future potential. He's best season pace of 64 points (0.78ppg) only scored 36 actual points.

 

[Peasy]

Another day, another young player signing a fair 8 year deal with the club that drafted them.

If only that could happen for the Leafs.

 

[Mess]

You didn't show winning percentage. You showed total wins, and ignored the corresponding losses that created pretty mediocre winning percentages for the coaches you named.

My apologies, I assumed most people would look at the last column of the chart and see W% and understand that is what is referred to as winning % and see Babcock has .538 listed.

Others still could see a coach with 700 wins in 1301 games = .538 winning % and do the math also themselves.

Note: That is actual W% and not expected xW% if that helps clarify things for you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

My apologies, I assumed most people would look at the last column of the chart and see W% and understand that is what is referred to as winning % and see Babcock has .538 listed.
Others still could see a coach with 700 wins in 1301 games = .538 winning % and do the math also themselves.
Note: That is actual winning % and not expected xW%.

You assumed that most people would look at the winning percentage column when you specifically sorted by total wins? That seems quite odd.
Why would you not just sort by winning percentage if that is what you're discussing?
Is it maybe because that would showcase Keefe as one of the highest winning percentage coaches of all time?
Also why are you praising winning percentages of 0.481, 0.531, and 0.538, as if they're good? Those aren't very good.
Note: expected xW% is not a stat.

 

[Superstar]

Its been a little while, so why are we not hearing any news from Mirtle, Siegel and Johnston about Matt Murray being re-united with his former GM in Pittsburgh yet. who claimed he was trying to work on Pens goaltending?

Once Murray is off the Leafs books I'd like to see Treliving go hard after Connor Hellebuyck for the Leafs.

They only write articles that benefit Dubas, not the Leafs.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

9.52% of the cap, for .68 PPG over 123 games in his first three seasons.

Nylander
8.76% of the cap, for .72 PPG over 185 games in his first three seasons.

Caufields is an ok contract, a touch on the high for comparables, but not bad.

PPG is the metric we use? If that's the case, then Matthews post elc contract was the worse in league history. At time of signing, Matthews had something like 0.85 ppg. Second highest aav in the league at the time for 0.85 ppg? Also, why didn't your elc injuries argument apply to Matthews?

I was told in all those Matthews contract threads that *goals* are what's significantly more important.

Nylander: (lol) 0.25 gpg.

Caufield: 0.43 gpg.

Let's also add that Caufield gave up TWO more ufa years and is paid hardly any in signing bonuses. It's a FAR more team-friendly contract than Nylander.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Another day, another young player signing a fair 8 year deal with the club that drafted them.

If only that could happen for the Leafs.

another day, another decent young player being compared to our superstars

if only we had drafted worse players, we'd have so many steals

 

[MCR74]

The Habs signed Cold Cauliflower to a decent contract. Why can't our guys do that?

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Dubas certainly deserves a lot of critique for getting none of WN, MM or AM on an 8 year deal.

 

[Fogelhund]

PPG is the metric we use? If that's the case, then Matthews post elc contract was the worse in league history. At time of signing, Matthews had something like 0.85 ppg. Second highest aav in the league at the time for 0.85 ppg? Also, why didn't your elc injuries argument apply to Matthews?

I was told in all those Matthews contract threads that *goals* are what's significantly more important.

Nylander: (lol) 0.25 gpg.

Caufield: 0.43 gpg.

Let's also add that Caufield gave up TWO more ufa years and is paid hardly any in signing bonuses. It's a FAR more team-friendly contract than Nylander.

Matthews missed 20 games due to injury in his first two years. Caufield has missed 51 and is 5'7". So far, it looks like he as some of the small player risks as Robertson.

Goals are more important, and that was mentioned... plus the two more years. Nylander had played 50% more games at the time of signing... I think they are both fair contracts, about equally valuable. I do think given Caufield's size, and injury history, there is more risk. If he becomes a 40-50 goal scorer, and is durable, it will no doubt be a fantastic contract.

 

[BallardEra]

9.52% of the cap, for .68 PPG over 123 games in his first three seasons.

Nylander
8.76% of the cap, for .72 PPG over 185 games in his first three seasons.

Caufields is an ok contract, a touch on the high for comparables, but not bad.

Nylander will want 9.5-10 per now.

 

[MCR74]

Dubas certainly deserves a lot of critique for getting none of WN, MM or AM on an 8 year deal.

I can't wait to see Dubas work his magic in Pittsburgh.