GDT: Around the League - 2021/22 - Playoffs edition

[Nineteen67]

That’s was a bad call.

 

[kb]

Thats a tough take, we were coming off a series where our RD was outright exploited. Kadri had back to back playoff suspensions and wasnt happy in his role. His numbers would continue to drop as his role decreased, impacting his value.


You can argue about the value, but motivation, timing and need all made a ton of sense.

Bingo. People need to understand this.

 

[TheShape]

Dubois, Wheeler and apparently Scheifele all on the block.

I think Hellebucyk could shake free.

 

[Trapper]

No Tampa would be third because they beat Colorado one game. Then it gets hairy. Is Edmonton 4th because they lost to Cororado or are the Rangers or Leafs because the won some games against Tampa ?

Some Leaf fans will say Leafs > Rangers because Leafs took 3 games from Tampa and outscored them in the series while Rangers won 2. Ranger fans will argue they won a round. LOL

I see. So we could get the trophy of being the team that lost to the team that lost to the potential winner, beating the other teams that made it further than we did while we continued to lose.
Understood. That’s a great banner for 8 years.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Dubois, Wheeler and apparently Scheifele all on the block.

I think Hellebucyk could shake free.

I’d also be interested in PLD if he would re-sign here. Physicality and scoring in a nice package.

 

[ToneDog]

I’d also be interested in PLD if he would re-sign here. Physicality and scoring in a nice package.

You'd have to send Nylander or Marner the other way to fit him in under the cap.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Way to not quote the Kerfoot part of the paragraph. Kerfoot is insignificant.

You don't get full quotes with Dekes. Just bits of what you wrote. Not sure how it is constantly allowed to be honest.

P.s. I miss Kadri.

 

[socko]

You'd have to send Nylander or Marner the other way to fit him in under the cap.

No deal unless I can throw Dubas and Shanahan in there too.

 

[Jmo89]

Thats a tough take, we were coming off a series where our RD was outright exploited. Kadri had back to back playoff suspensions and wasnt happy in his role. His numbers would continue to drop as his role decreased, impacting his value.


You can argue about the value, but motivation, timing and need all made a ton of sense.

The bolded is an assumption, especially if he was given a top 6 role. That said, I think it's a fair assumption and as you said, I can understand the motivation in trading him and the need for a different position.

I disagree on the timing, and the value completely ruined both the motivation and need. In fact, Dubas proved this himself by initially going after Brodie. Brodie would have actually filled the need of what the team lacked (though the value considering Brodie's term would have been a bit underwhelming.)

To pivot and go from a dman like Brodie to a dman like Barrie made very little sense. Barrie was more of the same. As others have said, Kerfoot doesn't move the needle either. He's a replacement level player you can pick up any offseason.

My overall point is that Dubas got pushed into doing something that many of his staunchest supporters accuse others of doing: making a trade for the sake of making a trade. Outside of Barrie being an RD it made very little sense for what this team already was stylistically.

If they were that adamant on trading him they should have been more patient in waiting for a better return.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You actually brought up the two time winners, current finalists as rebuke

Doesn't matter which team. Every team has players that walk in UFA, especially when they are high-end teams that aren't rebuilding. Many are losing a lot more than Mik and Soup.

You call Spezza, Blackwell, Mik, Kase, Kampf and Engvall depth. At the end of the day our depth cost us the series.

Bunting, Kase, Kampf, Blackwell > Hyman, Galchenyuk, Thornton, Simmonds, and most of the common depth improved as well.

 

[ToneDog]

Doesn't matter which team. Every team has players that walk in UFA, especially when they are high-end teams that aren't rebuilding. Many are losing a lot more than Mik and Soup.

Bunting, Kase, Kampf, Blackwell > Hyman, Galchenyuk, Thornton, Simmonds, and most of the common depth improved as well.

You are not wrong but we need more from our bottom 6 if we want to beat Colorado in the final next year.

 

[Nineteen67]

Doesn't matter which team. Every team has players that walk in UFA, especially when they are high-end teams that aren't rebuilding. Many are losing a lot more than Mik and Soup.

Bunting, Kase, Kampf, Blackwell > Hyman, Galchenyuk, Thornton, Simmonds, and most of the common depth improved as well.

I think Bunting will be a depth 3rd line player, too.

 

[TheShape]

I’d also be interested in PLD if he would re-sign here. Physicality and scoring in a nice package.

I’d stay away from him tbh, dude seems like a problem. That’s two trade demands now in 18 months.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The missed too many men call at such a crucial moment is a bad look for the league, but it's hard to have much sympathy for the Bolts considering how they benefitted from very questionable officiating in their series against us, especially in games 6 and 7.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You are not wrong but we need more from our bottom 6 if we want to beat Colorado in the final next year.

Getting more from our bottom six would definitely help in winning the cup, but our depth has been improving, and we're set up to get a lot more help from the prospect pool over the next few years than the past few. Colorado has a difficult path back to the finals, with about half of their roster hitting UFA.

I think Bunting will be a depth 3rd line player, too.

If you'd prefer to remove Bunting and Hyman, Kase/Kampf/Blackwell > Galchenyuk/Thornton/Simmonds still remains true.

 

[Gallagbi]

The bolded is an assumption, especially if he was given a top 6 role. That said, I think it's a fair assumption and as you said, I can understand the motivation in trading him and the need for a different position.

I disagree on the timing, and the value completely ruined both the motivation and need. In fact, Dubas proved this himself by initially going after Brodie. Brodie would have actually filled the need of what the team lacked (though the value considering Brodie's term would have been a bit underwhelming.)

To pivot and go from a dman like Brodie to a dman like Barrie made very little sense. Barrie was more of the same. As others have said, Kerfoot doesn't move the needle either. He's a replacement level player you can pick up any offseason.

My overall point is that Dubas got pushed into doing something that many of his staunchest supporters accuse others of doing: making a trade for the sake of making a trade. Outside of Barrie being an RD it made very little sense for what this team already was stylistically.

If they were that adamant on trading him they should have been more patient in waiting for a better return.

We needed a puck mover on the right side. We had it on the left, but puck movement was a huge issue vs the Bruins. So there was obvious need on that front.

Kadri had a partial NTC and waiting likely devalued him, as i think we both agree. Nothing here suggests change for changesake, it was to address a nedd within the team at a time that allowed them to enter UFA with a realistic cap outlook

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Getting more from our bottom six would definitely help in winning the cup, but our depth has been improving, and we're set up to get a lot more help from the prospect pool over the next few years than the past few. Colorado has a difficult path back to the finals, with about half of their roster hitting UFA.

If you'd prefer to remove Bunting and Hyman, Kase/Kampf/Blackwell > Galchenyuk/Thornton/Simmonds still remains true.

I don't share the same faith in the prospect pool. Outside of a couple of guys, I'm not sure there are too many NHLers, let alone impact players in the group. I hope I am wrong, but I just haven't seen enough at this point to make me think that there will be any real impact players (playing time wise) coming from the Marlies or elsewhere.

I think the improvement will have to come from outside of the organization....this is where the pro scouts can really make a difference.

 

[BackPassChampions]

Just curious, is there anything you can criticize Dubas for or has every move he's made been the right one? I'm pretty sure even he would acknowledge he's made a number of mistakes since taking over.

The Kadri trade was bad from the outset and many people knew it. Avs fans knew Barrie would be a disaster and very few people, at least on this board, thought it was a steal.

Kerfoot is a replacement level player with very little impact. He makes stupid decisions, and in this past playoffs alone took two stupid penalties that impacted two different games.

If you want to argue that Kadri's decision making was equally bad or worse, go for it, but let's not pretend that Kerfoot couldn't easily be replaced in any offseason.

Kadri for Brodie would have also been bad value based on term, although Brodie has been a much better dman for the Leafs.

Much like how Dubas put himself in a weak position to negotiate the post-ELC contracts for Marner and Matthews, he put himself in a poor position to trade Kadri. There was no reason to get rid of Kadri that summer, certinsly not for mediocre value and a dman whose style really didn't fit. The Avs knew management was frustrated with Kadri, and Dubas traded him after a down year.

Kadri would have been fine on the wing with Tavares until he rebuilt his value. It was a bad trade then and a worse trade now.

Spot on.

Dubas’ wording after the Columbus or Montreal series (can’t remember which one) started to include making less emotional knee jerk reactions.

To me, that emotional knee jerk reaction was Kadri.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Thats a tough take, we were coming off a series where our RD was outright exploited. Kadri had back to back playoff suspensions and wasnt happy in his role. His numbers would continue to drop as his role decreased, impacting his value.


You can argue about the value, but motivation, timing and need all made a ton of sense.

Personally I think the value wasn't bad at the time but the fit made no sense. Leafs had Rielly and Gardiner penciled in for the top 4 LD slots meaning if Barrie was to play in the top 4 he would have to play with 2 other less than stellar defensive players who were offensively inclined.

As we saw (and many on here predicted) that didn't work and he ended up on the third pairing before all the injuries at the end of the season. Evidently the leafs were even trying to trade Barrie at the TDL which i respect that Dubas admits his mistakes and tries to cut his losses (same with Ritchie too):

"Based on Bob McKenzie’s reporting and what we know of Toronto’s intentions at the deadline, Kyle Dubas is trying to thread the needle in moving out a pending unrestricted free agent in Barrie for something of longer-term value. Getting another RD back with more term is one option. A return that involves futures like prospects or picks that can be quickly reinvested in another RD may also work."

Mirtle: Should the Maple Leafs trade Tyson Barrie? Examining some scenarios

Who could Toronto get back if the Leafs do decide to move Barrie by the trade deadline?

www.google.com

Edit: my mistake was thinking of Muzzin not Gardiner

 

[Gallagbi]

Personally I think the value wasn't bad at the time but the fit made no sense. Leafs had Rielly and Gardiner penciled in for the top 4 LD slots meaning if Barrie was to play in the top 4 he would have to play with 2 other less than stellar defensive players who were offensively inclined.

As we saw (and many on here predicted) that didn't work and he ended up on the third pairing before all the injuries at the end of the season. Evidently the leafs were even trying to trade Barrie at the TDL which i respect that Dubas admits his mistakes and tries to cut his losses (same with Ritchie too):

"Based on Bob McKenzie’s reporting and what we know of Toronto’s intentions at the deadline, Kyle Dubas is trying to thread the needle in moving out a pending unrestricted free agent in Barrie for something of longer-term value. Getting another RD back with more term is one option. A return that involves futures like prospects or picks that can be quickly reinvested in another RD may also work."

Mirtle: Should the Maple Leafs trade Tyson Barrie? Examining some scenarios

Who could Toronto get back if the Leafs do decide to move Barrie by the trade deadline?

www.google.com

Gardiner went to Carolina. Our left side was Rielly, Dermott Muzzin, Marincin/Sandin. So anywhere but Rielly was fine, and even then Rielly had some experience with offensive D in Gardiner which worked well

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Getting more from our bottom six would definitely help in winning the cup, but our depth has been improving, and we're set up to get a lot more help from the prospect pool over the next few years than the past few. Colorado has a difficult path back to the finals, with about half of their roster hitting UFA.

If you'd prefer to remove Bunting and Hyman, Kase/Kampf/Blackwell > Galchenyuk/Thornton/Simmonds still remains true.

Do you expect the depth to improve this upcoming season or get worse?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Gardiner went to Carolina. Our left side was Rielly, Dermott Muzzin, Marincin/Sandin

My mistake, you are correct, it was Muzzin who was penciled in for the other LD slot. One of those days lol.


It still didn't make sense for Barrie to play on the shutdown pairing with Muzzin considering his massive sheltering in Colorado. Same principle applies, he wasn't a fit for the top 4, got demoted to bottom pairing as a result and then dubas tried to cut his losses and trade him like half a season later. If he was a good fit why did Dubas try to get rid of him mid-season?

 

[Nineteen67]

Getting more from our bottom six would definitely help in winning the cup, but our depth has been improving, and we're set up to get a lot more help from the prospect pool over the next few years than the past few. Colorado has a difficult path back to the finals, with about half of their roster hitting UFA.

If you'd prefer to remove Bunting and Hyman, Kase/Kampf/Blackwell > Galchenyuk/Thornton/Simmonds still remains true.

The three latter are horrible signings, no question.

 

[Lightsol]

The bolded is an assumption, especially if he was given a top 6 role. That said, I think it's a fair assumption and as you said, I can understand the motivation in trading him and the need for a different position.

I disagree on the timing, and the value completely ruined both the motivation and need. In fact, Dubas proved this himself by initially going after Brodie. Brodie would have actually filled the need of what the team lacked (though the value considering Brodie's term would have been a bit underwhelming.)

To pivot and go from a dman like Brodie to a dman like Barrie made very little sense. Barrie was more of the same. As others have said, Kerfoot doesn't move the needle either. He's a replacement level player you can pick up any offseason.

My overall point is that Dubas got pushed into doing something that many of his staunchest supporters accuse others of doing: making a trade for the sake of making a trade. Outside of Barrie being an RD it made very little sense for what this team already was stylistically.

If they were that adamant on trading him they should have been more patient in waiting for a better return.

The issue was that Kadri refused to waive his no-trade to go to Calgary, which meant he knew the Leafs were trying to trade him, and he was already disgruntled and complaining about his role in Toronto. I didn't like the deal much, but I saw why it had to be made; once Kadri found out about the Calgary trade, he had to go because you don't want a disgruntled player in the dressing room, especially one with a history of disciplinary issues in the past. He might have matured since then, but he'd never been in that situration before, and no one could predict how he'd react to it.

So Dubas went out and found another team that were willing to trade a RD defenseman with a history of playing 20+ minutes a night that he could trade Kadri for. Issue was a combination of Barrie being too similar to Reilly to make them a good D-pairing, and Babcock's refusal to play Barrie the way he should have been to start the season. And by the time Keefe took over, Barrie had already checked out mentally.

 

[Fogelhund]

Do you expect the depth to improve this upcoming season or get worse?

Our bottom six last year was essentially Engvall, Mikheyev, Kase, Kampf, Spezza and Simmonds.

Engvall, Simmonds and Kampf will be back. Kase might be back, and if so, no raise.

So the question will be.. can we replace Mikheyev, Spezza? It's not like that's impossible, and then you take into account, that nobody would have predicted what we'd get out of Bunting....

At this point, who knows??