GDT: Around the League - 2021/22 - Playoffs edition

[BertCorbeau]

i told you before context matters!

did sakic inherit a team on the rise, with plenty of cap space, plenty of assets.

did he sit on his butt when the team wasn't achieving anything or did he trade the core and retool?
(Rantanen, Makar, Girard, Byram)

Did Sakic make claims in media?

It is just frustrated posting in leafs forum. everytime someone says anything about dubas they get jumped by everyone

He did inherit a team on the rise. Look at his core at the time. He failed with that core.

He sat on his butt for 4 years with that core before making the ROR trade including missing the playoffs 3 consecutive times.

 

[Stephen]

Speed and skill beating a big team. Tampa's size is nice on the back end, but talent wins in the end

Tampa is a high skilled team with a big skilled back end and their game plan is any way you want to throw down. But they do look a little old and slow vs Colorado.

 

[socko]

Tampa literally won the past 2 cups before this year with their size and skill

Once again your not making any sense

Very true. We usually hear the opposite this time of year that you can't win with speed and skill. But Avs are proving that wrong.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Yes. None of that is important. Losing to game 7 to stanly cup winners is better than going to conference finals


I'll add this though. Sakic took over a team that was rebuilding. He drafted Nathan and so on
Dubas took on a team that had all the key players already drafted and played few seasons

One's 5 year isn't like other's 5 years

The had Mackinnon, ROR, Landeskog, and Duchene as their building blocks when he first arrived.

 

[hamzarocks]

Sakic took 5 years to get to the 2nd. round.

May 2013 Sakic took control.
May 2019 Sakic's team made the 2nd. round.

And as everyone talked about here earlier, making the conference finals isn't important, remember the Oilers making the conference finals this year wasn't important?

Dubas fans said making the 2nd round isn't important

Winning series helps a team grow into a true contender.

You usually don't fluke your way to a cup. Need to win some hard fought series and go through tough losses along the way

We've gotten the tough losses part down but no series wins in 6 tries

Shanahan the biggest fraud on the team has been here for what 8 years now? 0 series wins. Any organization with a lick of accountability would have moved him.

MLSE is one of the worst ownership groups in the league. They haven't given a damn about progression and management results.

Dubas has been GM for 4 years so fine maybe he can get another year or two

Shanahan should not be with the leafs after a near decade of failure

 

[fahad203]

The had Mackinnon, ROR, Landeskog, and Duchene as their building blocks when he first arrived.

Sakic wasn't the GM. Greg Sherman was
It's the same as saying Dubas has been here for 7 years

But I agree with you. Sakic too had a decent team

But are they good as Matthews, Kadri, JVR, Hyman, Reilly, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Andersen

 

[socko]

Tampa is a high skilled team with a big skilled back end and their game plan is any way you want to throw down. But they do look a little old and slow vs Colorado.

Tampa could play this way vs a lot of teams but the Avs aren't 1 of them. The speed differential is very noticeable. It made me jealous really to be honest. I really think we should have a team like the Avs do now with a competent GM. But nope, we have Dubas.

 

[fahad203]

Tampa could play this way vs a lot of teams but the Avs aren't 1 of them. The speed differential is very noticeable. It made me jealous really to be honest. I really think we should have a team like the Avs do now with a competent GM. But nope, we have Dubas.

But we are like them. Bedner said so and some leafs fans are happy with that

 

[ULF_55]

i told you before context matters!

did sakic inherit a team on the rise, with plenty of cap space, plenty of assets.

did he sit on his butt when the team wasn't achieving anything or did he trade the core and retool?
(Rantanen, Makar, Girard, Byram)

Did Sakic make claims in media?

It is just frustrated posting in leafs forum. everytime someone says anything about dubas they get jumped by everyone

No one is being jumped here.

The Avs have taken a long time to get here, and their line up has a 2nd. overall, 1st. overall, 4th. overall, 4th. overall, 10th. overall and they traded Jost a 10th. overall during this period of time.

This is year 9 for Sakic and he's in the SCF's. Right?

 

[hamzarocks]

He did inherit a team on the rise. Look at his core at the time. He failed with that core.

He sat on his butt for 4 years with that core before making the ROR trade including missing the playoffs 3 consecutive times.

Shanahan has also not accomplished anything at all in his tenure.

Been here for 9 years. Came when we were supposed to be a contender in 2014. Missed 3 straight playoffs. Tried to rebuild a contender but now 0/6 since AM34 came

He should be canned. Dubas is still only 5 years in so another year is fine.

What does Shanahan even bring to leafs management?

 

[Stephen]

If he can be a GM, all of us can. That's the appeal.

Dubas' popularity stems from being the young guy avatar for the online community from the early 2010s. Sort of the over-correction on the combined boogie man of Burke/Nonis/Wilson/Carlyle that just wanted to Orr/McLaren the league and trade up to draft Luke Schenn and Tyler Biggs every chance they could. In those days the Leafs were under talented and always seemed to miss out on those value skill players, and now we have a program that is optimizing for a 2010s inefficiency while extremely reluctant to even go near certain 'non skill' player types.

Overall, I think the premise on more skill is right, but the mix is still a little off.

 

[Stephen]

Tampa could play this way vs a lot of teams but the Avs aren't 1 of them. The speed differential is very noticeable. It made me jealous really to be honest. I really think we should have a team like the Avs do now with a competent GM. But nope, we have Dubas.

Aside from the Makar led blueline, I think what separates the Avalanche this year from the Maple Leafs or the Panthers is their drive to win. They really have that Mackinnon tendency to want to turn it up and run the opponent out of the building. Makes me more disappointed thinking about the victory lap mentality the Leaf went into Game 2 and 4 with. They played like they were satisfied to have the lead in the series, not to gut punch the other team.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes. None of that is important. Losing to game 7 to stanly cup winners is better than going to conference finals


I'll add this though. Sakic took over a team that was rebuilding. He drafted Nathan and so on
Dubas took on a team that had all the key players already drafted and played few seasons

One's 5 year isn't like other's 5 years

True enough, you don't get 4 picks in the top 5 if you're a good team.

No, the argument posted here was, winning the Cup was all that matters, winning a round, or taking the Cup winner to a 7th. game is meaningless. Leafs effort was meaningless, and Oilers winning 2 rounds was meaningless. 2 weeks ago it was meaningless for the Oilers to have won 2 rounds, therefore today it was meaningless for the Avs to win 1 or 2 rounds.

 

[fahad203]

Dubas' popularity stems from being the young guy avatar for the online community from the early 2010s. Sort of the over-correction on the combined boogie man of Burke/Nonis/Wilson/Carlyle that just wanted to Orr/McLaren the league and trade up to draft Luke Schenn and Tyler Biggs every chance they could. In those days the Leafs were under talented and always seemed to miss out on those value skill players, and now we have a program that is optimizing for a 2010s inefficiency while extremely reluctant to even go near certain 'non skill' player types.

Overall, I think the premise on more skill is right, but the mix is still a little off.

Everyone loves skills. Problem with Dubas fan boys is they mistake being competitive with being a Goon
There's not a single goon in Avs team. But they all compete and compete hard

Same with Tampa. There is no Wayne Simmonds on their team. But they all compete
Pointe puts his body on the line to block shots. that's competitiveness

Dubas fans boys love Engvall and Mikayev types of players..... Just skates, turns, turns skates. No body contact what so ever

 

[ToneDog]

Very true. We usually hear the opposite this time of year that you can't win with speed and skill. But Avs are proving that wrong.

It is not that simple. We have plenty of speed and skill but we did not make Tampa look silly like they did tonight.

 

[Not My Tempo]

Tampa literally won the past 2 cups before this year with their size and skill

Once again your not making any sense

There’s no one way to win a cup despite what a lot of people think. You just have to be the best team, how you get there is entirely up in the air.

I think the Leafs as a team are just poorly structured right now. We have a second line that can’t defend. We have a third line that can’t score. We have a fourth line that can’t do anything really.

Something I wish we do more of next year is just try and give some hungry kids a chance. We need to find the next Hyman or Brown in our system. Doesn’t need to be some highly touted prospect, but hungry guys that give 100% every shift.

 

[ToneDog]

True enough, you don't get 4 picks in the top 5 if you're a good team.

No, the argument posted here was, winning the Cup was all that matters, winning a round, or taking the Cup winner to a 7th. game is meaningless. Leafs effort was meaningless, and Oilers winning 2 rounds was meaningless. 2 weeks ago it was meaningless for the Oilers to have won 2 rounds, therefore today it was meaningless for the Avs to win 1 or 2 rounds.

Not losing in round 1 is not meaningless. Especially for a team that has failed to to so 6 straight years.

 

[Menzinger]

Shanahan has also not accomplished anything at all in his tenure.

Been here for 9 years. Came when we were supposed to be a contender in 2014. Missed 3 straight playoffs. Tried to rebuild a contender but now 0/6 since AM34 came

He should be canned. Dubas is still only 5 years in so another year is fine.

What does Shanahan even bring to leafs management?

That was absolutely not the case.....

He was hired in April of 2014 when the team was clearly a tire fire

 

[ULF_55]

Sakic wasn't the GM. Greg Sherman was
It's the same as saying Dubas has been here for 7 years

But I agree with you. Sakic too had a decent team

But are they good as Matthews, Kadri, JVR, Hyman, Reilly, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Andersen

Just splitting hairs, but:

Joe Sakic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On May 10, 2013, the Avalanche promoted Sakic to Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations. In this expanded role, Sakic has the final say on all matters regarding hockey personnel.[83] During Patrick Roy's time as head coach, they shared most of the duties normally held by a general manager. General Manager Greg Sherman remained in his post, but served mainly in an advisory role to Roy and Sakic. This de facto arrangement was formalized the following season, when Sakic was formally named general manager and Sherman was demoted to assistant general manager.

 

[fahad203]

That was absolutely not the case.....

He was hired in April of 2014 when the team was clearly a tire fire

David Clarkson was still a Leaf... Just saying

Just splitting hairs, but:

Joe Sakic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for the clarification. You are correct.

 

[socko]

David Clarkson was still a Leaf... Just saying



Thanks for the clarification. You are correct.

That meant smoother ice with that in-period Zamboni effect.

 

[hamzarocks]

That was absolutely not the case.....

He was hired in April of 2014 when the team was clearly a tire fire

2015 we didn't change anything up. He kept the same core and we were going for the playoffs.

He sat around and watched the first 40 games where we were in a playoff spot. Then we imploded and fell to 4th overall pick.

Shanahan has been here for near a decade. He's gotten nothing to show for it.

When is he held accountable?

No body in the leafs organization apparently is at fault

Dubas, Keefe, Shanahan, the core 4, the depth etc

People are so delusional in their belief that this team is a serious contender that they spin tales to take away fault from anyone in a relevant position or role in the organization

 

[ULF_55]

David Clarkson was still a Leaf... Just saying



Thanks for the clarification. You are correct.

I really think some are looking at the Leafs in the passenger mirror.

However, Rielly is so inferior to Makar that the huge gap there is an issue.

Makar 4th. overall >>> Rielly 5th. overall. Instinct seems to be missing in Rielly.

And going forward, no goaltender.

 

[Stephen]

Everyone loves skills. Problem with Dubas fan boys is they mistake being competitive with being a Goon
There's not a single goon in Avs team. But they all compete and compete hard

Same with Tampa. There is no Wayne Simmonds on their team. But they all compete
Pointe puts his body on the line to block shots. that's competitiveness

Dubas fans boys love Engvall and Mikayev types of players..... Just skates, turns, turns skates. No body contact what so ever

I always admired the play style of the 2000s Red Wings and wanted some version of that hockey for the Leafs. But I think Dubas and Keefe are trying to translate Pep Guardiola possession soccer to hockey and there's a lot lost in translation. T

he curl backs and possession and clock time is great for certain situations but there's always a balance between who is holding that puck and what you are losing in up ice tempo that gets lost in the conversation. The lower half of the forward group and bottom 2 pairs of the blueline shouldn't have the greenlight to play like they're Datsyuk curling back to Lidstrom to Rafalski. Because you need Franzen, Cleary, Holmstrom too.

 

[hamzarocks]

I really think some are looking at the Leafs in the passenger mirror.

However, Rielly is so inferior to Makar that the huge gap there is an issue.

Makar 4th. overall >>> Rielly 5th. overall. Instinct seems to be missing in Rielly.

And going forward, no goaltender.

Not just Makar >> Rielly

Mack >> Matthews in the playoffs
Rantanen >> Marner in the playoffs
Landeskog > Nylander in the playoffs etc

The Avs lost the past few years due to poor goaltending. They've gotten elite production form their stars however

This year a guy like Valeri Nichkushkin having a better playoffs (13 pts in 16 games) than JT has had as a leaf these past 4 years (14 pts in 19 games)

Leafs don't compare whatsoever to them.

They're better at basically every position

1C, 1W, 1D, 1G they're clearly ahead