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Around the League 2020-21 Part 3, Trade Deadline Edition

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tomd said:
Carter, Toffoli, Martinez, Campbell, Muzzin, Forbort...all guys who have gone on to success after leaving LA. Something is definitely in the water in Manhattan Beach that is a real problem. There is a culture issue here and I'm afraid Blake and Luc are part of it. It needs to be fixed now before it infects the next generation of players.
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Muzzin and Campbell were great here. Muzzin made sense to move to help the rebuild and LA needed to move one of Quick or Campbell. No takers on quick so Campbell was goner.

Forbort has been in a better role in Winnipeg and in Calgary last year. No way he should be a top line guy. I was up for him coming back to LA in a bottom 4 role where I think he would have excelled.

Toffoli needed a new contract and made sense for the re-build. Everyone knew he would score more once moved. Martinez sucked to move on from but again re-build.

Carter started the year so hot. He has always been a guy who, when motivated, is one of the best out there. This year his motivation was inconsistent. I imagine he will stay motivated as long as the Pens stay competitive. Look at his time in Columbus, his value on the ice is influenced greatly by how happy his is off ice, or how competitive the team is.

not saying there may not be a culture issue, or that there is. Just that those players having success after LA is not an indication for me.
 
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It still took the Pens 3-4 years after drafting Crosby to get it done. Then it was almost another 10 to get those b2b wins.
 
YP44 said:
Muzzin and Campbell were great here. Muzzin made sense to move to help the rebuild and LA needed to move one of Quick or Campbell. No takers on quick so Campbell was goner.

Forbort has been in a better role in Winnipeg and in Calgary last year. No way he should be a top line guy. I was up for him coming back to LA in a bottom 4 role where I think he would have excelled.

Toffoli needed a new contract and made sense for the re-build. Everyone knew he would score more once moved. Martinez sucked to move on from but again re-build.

Carter started the year so hot. He has always been a guy who, when motivated, is one of the best out there. This year his motivation was inconsistent. I imagine he will stay motivated as long as the Pens stay competitive. Look at his time in Columbus, his value on the ice is influenced greatly by how happy his is off ice, or how competitive the team is.

not saying there may not be a culture issue, or that there is. Just that those players having success after LA is not an indication for me.
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Why does this meme persist? He had 25 points in 39 games with the BJs. Even with only 39 games played, he remained the 4th highest goal producer on the BJs with 15 that season. Fans are just mad because he was open about not wanting to be there but who could blame him? He signed long term to be in Philly and got traded right after.
 
tomd said:
Carter, Toffoli, Martinez, Campbell, Muzzin, Forbort...all guys who have gone on to success after leaving LA. Something is definitely in the water in Manhattan Beach that is a real problem. There is a culture issue here and I'm afraid Blake and Luc are part of it. It needs to be fixed now before it infects the next generation of players.
Click to expand...

Do you remember what they were doing on the Kings before they were all traded, and what position this team was in? I'm afraid you are completely clueless and have zero comprehension of how rebuilds work.
 
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Gurglesons said:
I was a huge fan of the Kings when I was living in Idyllwild from 2007 - 2012. I used to have a game package. I made a bet when we signed JJ that he'd be a healthy scratch on the regular by December of that year. He wasn't a healthy scratch until the playoffs sadly.
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Maybe that JMFJ stood for Jack "Minus Four" Johnson.
 
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tomd said:
Carter, Toffoli, Martinez, Campbell, Muzzin, Forbort...all guys who have gone on to success after leaving LA. Something is definitely in the water in Manhattan Beach that is a real problem. There is a culture issue here and I'm afraid Blake and Luc are part of it. It needs to be fixed now before it infects the next generation of players.
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Most of them were here in 14-15. The God-King Williams was too. Couldn't even simply get into the playoffs.
 
I am torn if we I want LA to win all these games against hte ducks because i like when LA wins (obviously), or if losing them and hurting the Ducks draft lottery odds would be better.

I guess win/win either way. haha
 
KingsFan7824 said:
Most of them were here in 14-15. The God-King Williams was too. Couldn't even simply get into the playoffs.
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A tale of 5 franchises...LA, Chicago, Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh. All 5 drafted their core star players in the 2003-2008 timeframe. All 5 have won cups in the last decade. All 5 have routinely traded 1st round picks to stay on top. Why is it that 3 of those 5 teams have consistently remained on top despite their aging cores? Why is it that only LA has gone full-throated rebuild? The answers all point back to management. The teams like Boston, Washington, and Pittsburgh have competent management teams who know the value of trying to compete while they have their star players. All 3 of them will eventually rebuild but you won't see Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, Ovechkin, Marchand, or Carlson playing out the string on a last place team. Their management will move heaven and earth to prevent that. Why? Because their culture is all about winning. One team, however, decided to rebuild while their stars were still in their primes. Why? Because the management has no idea how to instill a winning culture. And so they take the easy way out and rebuild.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Do you remember what they were doing on the Kings before they were all traded, and what position this team was in? I'm afraid you are completely clueless and have zero comprehension of how rebuilds work.
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Yes I do...they were mired in a losing culture that didn't demand a winning effort. And even in a rebuild there are fans like yourself who aren't demanding accountability. Does Blake believe anything he says? Do you? Playoffs in 2022. Are you going to hold him accountable for that?
 
tomd said:
Yes I do...they were mired in a losing culture that didn't demand a winning effort. And even in a rebuild there are fans like yourself who aren't demanding accountability. Does Blake believe anything he says? Do you? Playoffs in 2022. Are you going to hold him accountable for that?
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I'm holding them accountable for a rebuild. The Kings were missing the playoffs with the aforementioned players you listed. The Kings had less than $500,000 in cap space and had a dry cupboard with no promising future when new management stepped in in 2017.
 
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Ziggy Stardust said:
I'm holding them accountable for a rebuild. The Kings were missing the playoffs with the aforementioned players you listed. The Kings had less than $500,000 in cap space and had a dry cupboard with no promising future when new management stepped in in 2017.
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What does that mean? Blake said when the rebuild started that the goal was to get back to the playoffs in 2022. He hasn't said otherwise since then. Are you holding him accountable for his rebuild goal of getting back to the playoffs in 2022? It's a simple question.
 
tomd said:
What does that mean? Blake said when the rebuild started that the goal was to get back to the playoffs in 2022. He hasn't said otherwise since then. Are you holding him accountable for his rebuild goal of getting back to the playoffs in 2022? It's a simple question.
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The rebuild didn't start in 17 and he was extremely optimistic about his 2022 projection. I'm sure he's tried to improve and AEG refuses to spend money or teams don't want to deal with expansion coming.
 
SFKingshomer said:
The rebuild didn't start in 17 and he was extremely optimistic about his 2022 projection. I'm sure he's tried to improve and AEG refuses to spend money or teams don't want to deal with expansion coming.
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The rebuild started in 2018...no one disputes that and I didn't say otherwise. And your sure he's tried to improve the team? Based on what evidence? AEG refuses to spend money? Based on what evidence? Teams don't want to deal with the expansion draft coming? Totally wrong...a team with pick/prospect assets and cap space (i.e. the Kings) can potentially make a killing ahead of the expansion draft as teams in trouble try to get something for valuable players rather than lose them for nothing in the ED. Will Blake take advantage? We'll see. It's time, however, to start holding him accountable for HIS rebuild and HIS goal to return to the playoffs in 2022.
 
tomd said:
A tale of 5 franchises...LA, Chicago, Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh. All 5 drafted their core star players in the 2003-2008 timeframe. All 5 have won cups in the last decade. All 5 have routinely traded 1st round picks to stay on top. Why is it that 3 of those 5 teams have consistently remained on top despite their aging cores? Why is it that only LA has gone full-throated rebuild? The answers all point back to management. The teams like Boston, Washington, and Pittsburgh have competent management teams who know the value of trying to compete while they have their star players. All 3 of them will eventually rebuild but you won't see Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron, Ovechkin, Marchand, or Carlson playing out the string on a last place team. Their management will move heaven and earth to prevent that. Why? Because their culture is all about winning. One team, however, decided to rebuild while their stars were still in their primes. Why? Because the management has no idea how to instill a winning culture. And so they take the easy way out and rebuild.
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Pittsburgh--fortunate enough to draft not one but TWO generational talents--yet they went nearly a decade between Cups and lost in the first round 6 times.
Washington--honestly they were almost a tale of a team that DIDN'T rather than a success story despite having the GOAT goal scorer. Won in 2018--otherwise lost in the 1st round 4 times, 2nd round 6 times.
Boston--I guess you're just conveniently forgetting that small stretch of "missed playoffs-missed playoffs-lost in the first round" in the middle there?

As much as I love Kopitar and Doughty, you're now comparing them to Crosby/Malkin, Ovy/Backstrom, and Bergeron/Marchand/Chara.

The difference between LA and the others, beyond the above, is twofold: 1. the type of game they played is pretty much dead; 2. the types of players they had playing that game were at or near the end of their careers. We said it before--you can't 'replace' Willie Mitchell and others.

Is it also management failures? I guess. That LA has more Cups than anyone but Pittsburgh/Chicago is a pretty weird measurement for 'failure.'
 
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tomd said:
The rebuild started in 2018...no one disputes that and I didn't say otherwise. And your sure he's tried to improve the team? Based on what evidence? AEG refuses to spend money? Based on what evidence? Teams don't want to deal with the expansion draft coming? Totally wrong...a team with pick/prospect assets and cap space (i.e. the Kings) can potentially make a killing ahead of the expansion draft as teams in trouble try to get something for valuable players rather than lose them for nothing in the ED. Will Blake take advantage? We'll see. It's time, however, to start holding him accountable for HIS rebuild and HIS goal to return to the playoffs in 2022.
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I'm sure he's tried to improve or he wouldn't be doing his job. The rebuild started in January of 19 once the Muzzin trade was official. They haven't had the pieces to move until now and even then they don't know what they have. There's been a few trades league wide that made me say "Blake maybe should have been in on that guy" but we don't know that he wasn't. To me the rebuild is really early into the process. How many teams moved guys out because of expansion? Not a lot...
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Pittsburgh--fortunate enough to draft not one but TWO generational talents--yet they went nearly a decade between Cups and lost in the first round 6 times.
Washington--honestly they were almost a tale of a team that DIDN'T rather than a success story despite having the GOAT goal scorer. Won in 2018--otherwise lost in the 1st round 4 times, 2nd round 6 times.
Boston--I guess you're just conveniently forgetting that small stretch of "missed playoffs-missed playoffs-lost in the first round" in the middle there?

As much as I love Kopitar and Doughty, you're now comparing them to Crosby/Malkin, Ovy/Backstrom, and Bergeron/Marchand/Chara.

The difference between LA and the others, beyond the above, is twofold: 1. the type of game they played is pretty much dead; 2. the types of players they had playing that game were at or near the end of their careers. We said it before--you can't 'replace' Willie Mitchell and others.

Is it also management failures? I guess. That LA has more Cups than anyone but Pittsburgh/Chicago is a pretty weird measurement for 'failure.'
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So much apologetics in your post. Now the loss of Willie frickin Mitchell is the reason why the Kings had to rebuild and the other teams didn't. Holy smokes.

And the point isn't how many cups those other teams won...the point is that they are still trying to win them! You guys are just hopelessly in the tank for the tank. Refusing to hold management for a shred of accountability is a sure way to get more of the same. Well you got want you wanted so continue on with gushing over the prospect pool and reading the draft guides. I'm sure the 2025 early draft guide will be coming out shortly...will be exciting to see who the top 3 prospects are and which one would fit the Kings rebuild the best.
 
tomd said:
So much apologetics in your post. Now the loss of Willie frickin Mitchell is the reason why the Kings had to rebuild and the other teams didn't. Holy smokes.

And the point isn't how many cups those other teams won...the point is that they are still trying to win them! You guys are just hopelessly in the tank for the tank. Refusing to hold management for a shred of accountability is a sure way to get more of the same. Well you got want you wanted so continue on with gushing over the prospect pool and reading the draft guides. I'm sure the 2025 early draft guide will be coming out shortly...will be exciting to see who the top 3 prospects are and which one would fit the Kings rebuild the best.
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I guess I made the mistake of thinking you were here for reasonable discussion. The above post is one of the whiniest things I've seen on this board.
 
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