Around the League 2020/2021 Thread | Stanley Cup Final Edition

[Breakers]

The wild F'd up the first expansion soo bad.

Then they proceeded to make the same damn mistake with Zuccarello give him protections which nobody understood.
now they are using these buyouts and screwing their cap for protection slots.

 

[bossram]

protection spot for Dumba, gives them an additional 10mil cap(eichel?), probably banking on some type of cap raise in either 23-24 or 24-25

I get the expansion slot considerations, but the future cap penalties are enormous.

Minnesota is now incurring $13-15 million in dead cap for a 3 year stretch. That's insane.

They seriously couldn't make a side deal with Seattle to not select Dumba? Or y'know...just let them select him and avoid mountains of dead cap?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Minnesota throwing in the towel for the next 4 years with that dead cap hit?
Maybe a full rebuild. They can’t compete with the top teams with that much dead cap space.

 

[Nucker101]

Speculation that this was done because they're going hard after Eichel

 

[WishfulThinker]

That seems like a really shortsighted move by the Wild. What is the end goal here because all the ones that I can come up with don't seem to be worth it.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Eichel doesn't make sense, eichel + buyouts is almost 25M three of the next 4 years, can't build a competitive roster in that situation.

 

[Melvin]

That seems like a really shortsighted move by the Wild. What is the end goal here because all the ones that I can come up with don't seem to be worth it.

How is it not worth it? It ends up being a 1.7M penalty from 2025-2029. That's easily worth 10M in cap savings next year and 2M the year after.

 

[rypper]

 

[StreetHawk]

They have been paid $88 mill of their $98 mill contracts so far. $20 mill front loaded. Recapture if they both bailed now would be $5 mill per season each.

what is the incentive for guys like Fiala and KAprizov to sign any ufa years now? Fiala is a 2014 pick so he’s ufa in 2023 at the latest. KK is 3 years from ufa. Can’t compete for anything til 25-26 season when the massive dead cap hits go down to something more manageable.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

Did kaprizov resign yet? I wonder if he could be a factor somehow.

 

[GetFocht]

over 12.8 million used in dead space for the next 3 years -- now that's real cap hell

 

[Melvin]

I get the expansion slot considerations, but the future cap penalties are enormous.

Minnesota is now incurring $13-15 million in dead cap for a 3 year stretch. That's insane.

They seriously couldn't make a side deal with Seattle to not select Dumba? Or y'know...just let them select him and avoid mountains of dead cap?

They had "dead cap" regardless due to the massive contracts.

The Wild were set to pay $15M for Parise and Suter next year. Now they are set to pay them $4.5M. If you can find a decent defender for 3M and a decent forward for 4M then you're ahead by 3.5M and probably have a better roster.

Edit: before someone corrects me, the amount paid is the same, it's the cap hit blah blah we know.

 

[Melvin]

Like, Loui Eriksson is already 5M in "dead cap" as that is basically the difference between his value and his cap hit. If you could instead incur 3M and replace him with a 1M player, that would be a reduction in your dead cap (and we would do it instantly.)

 

[sting101]

The wild F'd up the first expansion soo bad.

Then they proceeded to make the same damn mistake with Zuccarello give him protections which nobody understood.
now they are using these buyouts and screwing their cap for protection slots.

as opposed to keeping them and paying them full pop to be crap?. not just that they avoid re capture which is huge.

Needed to be done. Good move for Minny

 

[vancityluongo]

Seems like a bit of a weird "win now" move from a team that isn't really that good?

Maybe they see the West as wide open, but they're in a tough division. So the real incentive must be the recapture? Anyone know what it would have been if they both retired next year?

Edit: nvm, just found a better link describing the actual cap hit structure. this makes perfect sense. especially seeing as they're buying cap space now in a flat environment and presumably incurring the hit when we're out of that and into a rising cap on the back of the ESPN TV deal.

Zach Parise Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Minnesota is now incurring $13-15 million in dead cap for a 3 year stretch. That's insane.

This was my reaction too, but when you think about their declining play (especially Parise), that was going to be dead cap anyways. Basically they're paying $1.7M per year on the back half of this decade to get $10M now, and $2M next year. On top of all the expansion draft benefits. That's honestly worth it. I might have waited one more year to buy out Suter, but not a big deal.

 

[Dissonance Jr]

The buyout seems like a good idea. If they'd kept Parise and Suter, they'd be using $15 million worth of cap in 2023-24 and 2024-25 on two potentially sub-replacement-level players pushing 40. Now they can just replace them both with guys making ~$1 million for those two years and instead they're devoting ~$17 million in cap to those two roster spots and are probably no worse off on the ice, possibly even a bit better depending on how badly those two would've declined.

Easy price to pay for lots more cap room in 2021-22 (and about $2 million more in 2022-23), and that's before worrying about the risk that they retire early and rack up huge recapture penalties.

Edit: Yeah, others beat me to it. Those two were already dead cap space, especially Parise. Possibly Suter could've been useful for another year or two but it's certainly a risk that he could fall off a cliff very soon.

 

[bossram]

They had "dead cap" regardless due to the massive contracts.

The Wild were set to pay $15M for Parise and Suter next year. Now they are set to pay them $4.5M. If you can find a decent defender for 3M and a decent forward for 4M then you're ahead by 3.5M and probably have a better roster.

Edit: before someone corrects me, the amount paid is the same, it's the cap hit blah blah we know.

And what I'm saying is that for a 3 year stretch, it'll be impossible to "save" any cap space in the manner you're talking about because their buyout charges combine for ~15 million on the cap anyway. Any roster player replacements will take them over their base AAVs.

They're not on the same level as Loui Eriksson (who's not an NHLer). Suter, while slowing down, is still reliably top-four calibre. Parise's underlying numbers actually aren't bad either and is certainly still a bottom-six player.

A more convincing argument regarding the buyouts is that they avoid any cap recapture penalties for when they retire (potentially up to $20 million per year).

 

[Vector]

I haven't been paying too much attention, is Suter still good? Not great but at least good?

There's no chance he'll be a factor to the Canucks but him entering the market could have a small effect on other potential deals.

 

[Melvin]

And what I'm saying is that for a 3 year stretch, it'll be impossible to "save" any cap space in the manner you're talking about because their buyout charges combine for ~15 million on the cap anyway. And they need to add roster players to replace them.

They're not on the same level as Loui Eriksson (who's not an NHLer). Suter, while slowing down, is still reliably top-four calibre. Parise's underlying numbers actually aren't bad either and is certainly still a bottom-six player.

A more convincing argument regarding the buyouts is that they avoid any cap recapture penalties for when they retire (potentially up to $20 million per year).

It was already going to be impossible to save that cap space in future seasons. They were going to be paying 15M for the husks of Parise and Suter in 2024 regardless. Now at least they have some flexibility and some savings for next season. I'm not saying it's a no brainer (the way Eriksson would be,) but it makes sense to me.

It's not about how good they "are." It's about how good they project to be.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I haven't been paying too much attention, is Suter still good? Not great but at least good?

There's no chance he'll be a factor to the Canucks but him entering the market could have a small effect on other potential deals.

He’s still a 2nd pair D

 

[supercanuck]

Would love Suter on a fair deal

Yeah...but I'm assuming there will be plenty of suitors that he would choose before us.

 

[Vector]

I'll get this out of the way quick, there's no way a Suter will sign with the Canucks unless it's an incredible overpay. He's a 36 year old American that was just bought out and will sign with whatever American team is closest to winning the Cup and offers him the best situation.

 

[Dab]

Ditching Parise and Suter is worth a little dead cap space.

 

[WishfulThinker]

I feel like recapture was always a very slim chance with these 2 guys. They came to play for their home town team to try and bring a championship. I have a hard time thinking that they'd actively choose to tank their 'childhood' team by retiring early instead of LTIR like all the other players caught in the similar situation.

I also felt Suter wasn't way off his 7.5 cap hit and don't think it's that easy to replace him. Using a player's performance this year as a determining point for impactful decisions is super risky in my opinion.