Around the League '18-'19

[YP44]

I'm on board with that. He's constantly reshaping. And this is a guy who pursued Forsberg and Kariya as well, and not scared to change the roster to match the times. But I guess within that praise also lies the criticism that 1. he doesn't know how to win and 2. if that weren't Nashville and were, say, LA, he'd be getting absolutely raked. It's about perspective. But I also hate Nashville so

It is remarkable how long he has been a GM. You are right that criticism. I imagine the same was said about DL before 2012.

 

[Sol]

The only reason people shit on DL is because of the dramatic fall from grace and obvious blunders.


If Tampa falls apart or never wins, Yzermans legacy as GM will be quickly forgotten.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The only reason people **** on DL is because of the dramatic fall from grace and obvious blunders.


If Tampa falls apart or never wins, Yzermans legacy as GM will be quickly forgotten.

It's kind of a dead-end job in a way. No GM has a happy ending. If you're lucky, you'll last long enough to have a terrible end.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The only reason people **** on DL is because of the dramatic fall from grace and obvious blunders.


If Tampa falls apart or never wins, Yzermans legacy as GM will be quickly forgotten.

This is the part I have a problem....obvious blunders.....nothing was freaking obvious....hindsight is 20/20 but in the moment, you either believe in the team that JUST dominated the league for 3 years, or you don't. Obviously people here would have blown that 2014-2015 to kingdom come because, it's obvious.....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is the part I have a problem....obvious blunders.....nothing was freaking obvious....hindsight is 20/20 but in the moment, you either believe in the team that JUST dominated the league for 3 years, or you don't. Obviously people here would have blown that 2014-2015 to kingdom come because, it's obvious.....

To be fair I think more than a few guys made their calls at the time and were right--i.e. @Herby on buying out Richards at the right time--but I agree that it's the context and perspective that I'm talking about as well.

 

[Reaper45]

This is the part I have a problem....obvious blunders.....nothing was freaking obvious....hindsight is 20/20 but in the moment, you either believe in the team that JUST dominated the league for 3 years, or you don't. Obviously people here would have blown that 2014-2015 to kingdom come because, it's obvious.....

The only one I think most would say is the obvious blunder is Richards.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

To be fair I think more than a few guys made their calls at the time and were right--i.e. @Herby on buying out Richards at the right time--but I agree that it's the context and perspective that I'm talking about as well.

And even then, was it THAT much of a blunder? Again, context, perspective, you either believe in the team, or you don't, 2014-2015, yes, Richards showed signs of slowing down, but he still makes a helluva 3rd line C, and on a team that is contending, didn't everyone just spend 20 pages bitching about depth? I don't know if it's as OBVIOUS as some people like to say it is, context and perspective, by not buying Richards out, Lombardi essentially told everyone else, we believe in you, let's get it done etc. He could have bought him out, sure, but we don't know what affect that might have had on the morale of everyone else, buying out a guy who was a warrior when you needed him to be, to me, that screams lack of faith, lack of trust, and that hurts a locker room just as much.

 

[YP44]

And even then, was it THAT much of a blunder? Again, context, perspective, you either believe in the team, or you don't, 2014-2015, yes, Richards showed signs of slowing down, but he still makes a helluva 3rd line C, and on a team that is contending, didn't everyone just spend 20 pages *****ing about depth? I don't know if it's as OBVIOUS as some people like to say it is, context and perspective, by not buying Richards out, Lombardi essentially told everyone else, we believe in you, let's get it done etc. He could have bought him out, sure, but we don't know what affect that might have had on the morale of everyone else, buying out a guy who was a warrior when you needed him to be, to me, that screams lack of faith, lack of trust, and that hurts a locker room just as much.

I still do not fault anyone but Richards for how things turned out. Richards made a promise to Lombardi. Lombardi knew the team was a tight group so chose to believe that promise and did not buy him out. Richard's needed to fullfill that promise.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I still do not fault anyone but Richards for how things turned out. Richards made a promise to Lombardi. Lombardi knew the team was a tight group so chose to believe that promise and did not buy him out. Richard's needed to fullfill that promise.

Agree, but too many on here think decisions are formed in a vacuum and they throw out context and perspective as irrelevant

 

[Herby]

I still do not fault anyone but Richards for how things turned out. Richards made a promise to Lombardi. Lombardi knew the team was a tight group so chose to believe that promise and did not buy him out. Richard's needed to fullfill that promise.

It didn't matter. Richards could have stayed in LA, stayed clean, worked out , eaten perfect, said his prayers and taken his vitamins. He was done as an NHL player and it wasn't his responsibility to retire and leave $30m on the table, it was the responsibility of the Kings management to pull the plug.

And even then, was it THAT much of a blunder? Again, context, perspective, you either believe in the team, or you don't, 2014-2015, yes, Richards showed signs of slowing down, but he still makes a helluva 3rd line C, and on a team that is contending, didn't everyone just spend 20 pages *****ing about depth? I don't know if it's as OBVIOUS as some people like to say it is, context and perspective, by not buying Richards out, Lombardi essentially told everyone else, we believe in you, let's get it done etc. He could have bought him out, sure, but we don't know what affect that might have had on the morale of everyone else, buying out a guy who was a warrior when you needed him to be, to me, that screams lack of faith, lack of trust, and that hurts a locker room just as much.

You act like every championship team stays the same. It's a cap league, changes happen, especially to successful teams. And LOL at a two time cup winning lockerroom with Kopitar, Williams, Mitchell, Brown, Greene, Quick and Stoll collapsing at some kind of supposed mistreatment of Mike Richards, the teams 4th line center. The players were all watching the same player we all watching on TV. Yes he is a teammate and a friend but come on, we know nothing would be said to the media, but you know those players had to have been thinking what everyone else was about MR.

 

[Herby]

delete

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It didn't matter. Richards could have stayed in LA, stayed clean, worked out , eaten perfect, said his prayers and taken his vitamins. He was done as an NHL player and it wasn't his responsibility to retire and leave $30m on the table, it was the responsibility of the Kings management to pull the plug.



You act like every championship team stays the same. It's a cap league, changes happen, especially to successful teams. And LOL at a two time cup winning lockerroom with Kopitar, Williams, Mitchell, Brown, Greene, Quick and Stoll collapsing at some kind of supposed mistreatment of Mike Richards, the teams 4th line center. The players were all watching the same player we all watching on TV. Yes he is a teammate and a friend but come on, we know nothing would be said to the media, but you know those players had to have been thinking what everyone else was about MR.

LOL BS and you know it, first of all, Mitchell left, Williams and Stoll left quickly after.

Most championship teams core stays the same, and if you think Richards wasn't thought of as part of the core, you are lost, you are out of your mind, him, Carter, Brown, Kopitar, doughty, Quick, were all considered CORE players, and again, you are throwing context and perspective out of there by saying Richards was done no matter what yadda yadda yadda, there's not a player in that room who thought that, but in the real world, it absolutely matters how you treat players on AND off the ice, and players notice that...

 

[King'sPawn]

It didn't matter. Richards could have stayed in LA, stayed clean, worked out , eaten perfect, said his prayers and taken his vitamins. He was done as an NHL player and it wasn't his responsibility to retire and leave $30m on the table, it was the responsibility of the Kings management to pull the plug.



You act like every championship team stays the same. It's a cap league, changes happen, especially to successful teams. And LOL at a two time cup winning lockerroom with Kopitar, Williams, Mitchell, Brown, Greene, Quick and Stoll collapsing at some kind of supposed mistreatment of Mike Richards, the teams 4th line center. The players were all watching the same player we all watching on TV. Yes he is a teammate and a friend but come on, we know nothing would be said to the media, but you know those players had to have been thinking what everyone else was about MR.

The pragmatic side of me thought it was best to buy out Richards, but I still maintain Lombardi made a defensible stance not to buy him out. Furthermore, we don't know what the teammates or management thought of Richards. They've worked with him and traveled with him for three years; seeing a player struggle who really did give his all is a very hard thing to evaluate from a more up front perspective.

Lombardi's biggest downfall is his loyalty, which also brought a lot of closer relationships. He knew Richards before he was a GM in LA. To see someone fall from grace so quickly is not an easy thing to process, whether you're a Mom & Pop shop owner or a GM of an NHL team.

It was the wrong call, but I can certainly understand Lombardi's dilemma.

 

[Herby]

LOL BS and you know it, first of all, Mitchell left, Williams and Stoll left quickly after.

Most championship teams core stays the same, and if you think Richards wasn't thought of as part of the core, you are lost, you are out of your mind, him, Carter, Brown, Kopitar, doughty, Quick, were all considered CORE players, and again, you are throwing context and perspective out of there by saying Richards was done no matter what yadda yadda yadda, there's not a player in that room who thought that, but in the real world, it absolutely matters how you treat players on AND off the ice, and players notice that...

So in two of your posts you have said as of June 2014 he was "Still a Core player" and "he was showing some signs of slowing down". I mean this is a guy who went from being a member of Team Canada in a best vs. best tournament to struggling to keep his job over Colin Fraser and Linden Vey and he was "showing signs of slowing down", I mean, really, like saying Keith Tkachuk's showing signs of getting fat.

And the players understand this is a business, everyone knew what kind of career he had, in his prime he was a world class two-way center and was paid like it. There was no justification to keep paying that type of money to an AHL/NHL tweener.

 

[Sol]

Hindsight is true. But really? Keeping Richards when he was OBVIOUSLY done. Playing much worse than brown ever did.

It was clear as day he was toast. It was an awful mistake then and remained that way.


There's no defense for it. Then extending Greene for 4 years when he was toast. Lucic trade wasn't bad ?? Sekera?


Obvious blunders.


There's a reason why a 2 cup winning GM is out of a GM position.

 

[kingsholygrail]

So you can't understand at all why he kept him?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

In 2014, during the last Cup run, Richards was a 4th line center averaging 15 mins of ice time. He was 16th on the team in average ice time during the post season. Paying over $5M for that for the long haul probably wasn't a great idea, especially when holding a "Get out of Jail" card.

 

[lexlavender]

Are we still talking about Richards? I'll eat f***ing crow, Herby was right and keeping Richards was wrong. It's almost a waste of server power to keep talking about it at this point.

 

[Sol]

So you can't understand at all why he kept him?

With the way he was playing, no. There was no reason to keep Richards. He was being paid a lot for an eternity while playing like total garbage offensively, and defensively.

The only reason to keep Richards was purely based on emotion not logic. Ignored all the evidence and neon signs that he was done.

The Richards topic is beaten to death. But I admit, I'm actually surprised a few people think that there was a good defense to keep Richards. That surprises me.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Are we still talking about Richards? I'll eat ****ing crow, Herby was right and keeping Richards was wrong. It's almost a waste of server power to keep talking about it at this point.

Seems like someone else is convinced that Dean Lombardi made no mistakes. I wonder why he was let go. The owners and fans should be satisfied with the results post 2014.

 

[Herby]

So you can't understand at all why he kept him?

I truly can’t. I mean I guess people will say sentiment, but for hockey reasons there was literally nothing.

They had Kopitar and Carter as a championship caliber center duo and Gaborik, Brown, Williams and rising talents Toffoli and Pearson at wing. Asking the guy who was by far the worst defensive forward the year before to play a defensive role never made sense.

 

[BigKing]

Richards was an obvious blunder. They don't get past SJ in Round 1, Richards is bought out. The high of the amazing 2014 run helped cloud Lombardi's judgment.

Sekera trade was not a blunder at the time. Defending champs riding a long winning streak decide to fill the Voynov hole. Unfortunate he got hurt and still insane that they missed the playoffs.

Lucic was a huge gamble at the time and an even bigger one if you knew Voynov was not going to be back. Regardless, this is the move where he doubled down after losing the Sekera hand. Should of kept his powder dry.

After that, the biggest blunders are stripping Brown of the C and keeping Sutter with these two pretty much intertwined. He did not mortgage anything asset wise in his last year here and knew he needed to regroup. Never got the chance to prove it though and is now forever known as the guy that would have traded JAD and a 1st for Kane at last year's deadline and Vilardi + a 2nd for Skinner after not being able to re-sign Kane because that's all he does is trade picks and prospects, completely forgetting that he hoarded these things prior to the Kings being competitive.

 

[KINGS17]

The pragmatic side of me thought it was best to buy out Richards, but I still maintain Lombardi made a defensible stance not to buy him out. Furthermore, we don't know what the teammates or management thought of Richards. They've worked with him and traveled with him for three years; seeing a player struggle who really did give his all is a very hard thing to evaluate from a more up front perspective.

Lombardi's biggest downfall is his loyalty, which also brought a lot of closer relationships. He knew Richards before he was a GM in LA. To see someone fall from grace so quickly is not an easy thing to process, whether you're a Mom & Pop shop owner or a GM of an NHL team.

It was the wrong call, but I can certainly understand Lombardi's dilemma.

Lombardi's visit to Mike Richards in the summer of 2014 was akin to George W. Bush looking into Putin's eyes and seeing his soul.

Sorry, Dean blew it on that decision. I can't blame him for Voynov. That screw up by Voynov created a hole which set in motion a list of cascading decisions which in the end were not correct.

 

[KINGS17]

Seems like someone else is convinced that Dean Lombardi made no mistakes. I wonder why he was let go. The owners and fans should be satisfied with the results post 2014.

Just some bad puck luck, that's all.

 

[KINGS17]

So in two of your posts you have said as of June 2014 he was "Still a Core player" and "he was showing some signs of slowing down". I mean this is a guy who went from being a member of Team Canada in a best vs. best tournament to struggling to keep his job over Colin Fraser and Linden Vey and he was "showing signs of slowing down", I mean, really, like saying Keith Tkachuk's showing signs of getting fat.

And the players understand this is a business, everyone knew what kind of career he had, in his prime he was a world class two-way center and was paid like it. There was no justification to keep paying that type of money to an AHL/NHL tweener.

The vast majority of players have no problem treating it like a business when it's time to negotiate the next long term contract.