Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[Dotter]

Your underlining theme is very predictable. Every accomplishment the franchise has had is because it fell into his lap; every snag the franchise has faced is due to failed GMing.

Ken Holland was Director of Amateur Scouting in 1987 for the DRWs. Lidstrom was drafted in 1989. Ken Holland was promoted to assistant GM in 1994. Wings won the cup in 97 and 98. Ken Holland became General Manager in 1997.

I would think by 2008 the team that won the cup, and the 2009 team that made the finals should, by then, be somewhat associated to Kenny Holland, no?

I know you want to give all the credit to cousin jimmy that may have given Henrik Zetterberg his first broken hockey stick when he was 7 years old, to which Hank knew at that moment he was going to be the future Captain of the Detroit Red Wings and HOFer, but maybe... just maybe Kenny Holland should be given a little credit for DRWs success and being part of not one, but two eras of dominant hockey?

But then again, I'm sure all that just fell into his lap and cousin jimmy should get the Nobel peace prize and named Detroit Red Wings' true monarch.

Your blind criticism towards the man looks more like pure hatred. It is unhealthy. You should look at the history of the Wings and take in the facts more objectively. But I doubt you will.

 

[The Zermanator]

Your underlining theme is very predictable. Every accomplishment the franchise has had is because it fell into his lap; every snag the franchise has faced is due to failed GMing.

Ken Holland was Director of Amateur Scouting in 1987 for the DRWs. Lidstrom was drafted in 1989. Ken Holland was promoted to assistant GM in 1994. Wings won the cup in 97 and 98. Ken Holland became General Manager in 1997.

I would think by 2008 the team that won the cup, and the 2009 team that made the finals should, by then, be somewhat associated to Kenny Holland, no?

I know you want to give all the credit to cousin jimmy that may have given Henrik Zetterberg his first broken hockey stick when he was 7 years old, to which Hank knew at that moment he was going to be the future Captain of the Detroit Red Wings and HOFer, but maybe... just maybe Kenny Holland should be given a little credit for DRWs success and being part of not one, but two eras of dominant hockey?

But then again, I'm sure all that just fell into his lap and cousin jimmy should get the Nobel peace prize and named Detroit Red Wings' true monarch.

Your blind criticism towards the man looks more like pure hatred. It is unhealthy. You should look at the history of the Wings and take in the facts more objectively. But I doubt you will.

This post just demonstrates so perfectly my often repeated point that you've completely distorted and misconstrued my position. Please, I invite you. Look at my post history. I have credited the man on many, many occasions.

There's not much criticism to be made of Holland in a non-cap era. Without a money constraint he can build a legendary team.

To his credit, he made a plan coming out of the lockout with the new cap to building through the draft and development. And he's built a very good development organization. It's resulted in lots of good young players.

Holland has done a very good job drafting over the years. He's made many clever picks and has shrewdly traded 1st round picks to get multiple later picks. But is it not also fair to say that he's squandered some? Like trading a 1st that could have been Vasilevskiy or Maatta or whoever for Quincey 2.0?

He's always been very good at building a strong front office and hiring competent coaches and assistants.

He's had a few good free agency signings in the cap era. Hossa, Alfredsson, Green (probably), etc. He's had a few bad ones too though if we're being honest. Weiss turned out pretty poorly and it wasn't all because of injuries. The guy just seemed to give up. And I liked the signing at the time, everyone's wrong sometimes.

He's got other faults too. Which have become more pronounced since the old guard (starting with Rafalski) have retired. And if he doesn't address the defense before Datsyuk retires we might be in trouble quick as we've seen in many games so far this season. Especially so after Zetterberg and Kronwall retire.

He's retained players beyond their usefulness until they become counter-productive by plugging up roster spots. This started long before Cleary, with Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, etc.

And since Lidstrom retired the defense has been treading water and relying on some forwards for help far too much. For a bit we were waiting to see how Sproul, Ouellet and Co. would turn out. Not looking too hopeful for that top pairing dman. He whiffed on Suter and Co. So where are we now? He's content going into the season with a defense that is pretty much universally recognized as being mediocre at best. He has plenty of assets to spend to acquire that player but has not done anything of real substance. That is my problem with him, now, in 2015. All those other things are in the past. But he's not changing his approach to the changing circumstances. That is my criticism.

Your claims about my positions are completely off the mark. I've told you that many times yet you refuse to listen. Maybe you should look at your own opinions, or at least chill out. What is said on here is absolutely inconsequential, just chill out.

EDIT: Here's a couple:

- Kenny signed Mike Green, and (so far, knock on wood) has avoided re-signing Cleary. He also signed Richards to a very low risk contract and bought out Weiss. Re-signed Nyquist to a reasonable contract.

- Cleary is no longer on roster.

- Quincey was halfway decent last season.

...

Man, I hate the off-season.

Yeah, just to be clear. I think both of them should be in the lineup and getting some top 6 and PP time. I just don't think Babcock and Holland deserve all the scorn they get around here. I think they've done a good job guiding this team through a transition. We haven't had to endure what Pittsburgh, Chicago, Edmonton, Toronto, etc. fans have had to endure over the years. I think the future is bright in Detroit.

And to show I'm not just 'regurgitating' other people's arguments, here are a couple posts that are 2 years old:

Holland likes to hoard vets, but hoarding prospects isn't necessarily any better. At some point you have to choose which ones to keep and play and which ones to cut loose. Callahan could potentially come up and play a decent 4th line role but if there are other prospects that are better suited to that role (like Sheahan or Ferraro), they should get that spot.

Question: Is Holland going to allow this team to slide into mediocrity because of his complacency or is he going to do SOMETHING?

I've been consistent in the areas I praise him for, and consistent in the areas I criticize him for. You're the one with the problem dude.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Your underlining theme is very predictable. Every accomplishment the franchise has had is because it fell into his lap; every snag the franchise has faced is due to failed GMing.

Ken Holland was Director of Amateur Scouting in 1987 for the DRWs. Lidstrom was drafted in 1989. Ken Holland was promoted to assistant GM in 1994. Wings won the cup in 97 and 98. Ken Holland became General Manager in 1997.

I would think by 2008 the team that won the cup, and the 2009 team that made the finals should, by then, be somewhat associated to Kenny Holland, no?

I know you want to give all the credit to cousin jimmy that may have given Henrik Zetterberg his first broken hockey stick when he was 7 years old, to which Hank knew at that moment he was going to be the future Captain of the Detroit Red Wings and HOFer, but maybe... just maybe Kenny Holland should be given a little credit for DRWs success and being part of not one, but two eras of dominant hockey?

But then again, I'm sure all that just fell into his lap and cousin jimmy should get the Nobel peace prize and named Detroit Red Wings' true monarch.

Your blind criticism towards the man looks more like pure hatred. It is unhealthy. You should look at the history of the Wings and take in the facts more objectively. But I doubt you will.

Id rather give the credit to Scotty bowman then Jimmy. Holland's made some bad moves recently. But this has been one of his best offseasons so far.

 

[Dotter]

He's got other faults too. Which have become more pronounced since the old guard (starting with Rafalski) have retired. And if he doesn't address the defense before Datsyuk retires we might be in trouble quick as we've seen in many games so far this season. Especially so after Zetterberg and Kronwall retire.

Older players are getting older, younger players are getting more experience. Circle of hockey, no?

He's retained players beyond their usefulness until they become counter-productive by plugging up roster spots. This started long before Cleary, with Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, etc.

Wings traded all their picks pre-2005 and had nothing in the cupboard to take over. There was a promising player who got in a car accident, another fled overseas, and Fischer who had heart conditions. But really, there were no promising prospects to play. Unless you wanted a tiny immature Tatar and Nyquist that took a long time to develop? Those guys might not be the players they are today had they been rushed to the NHL.

And since Lidstrom retired the defense has been treading water and relying on some forwards for help far too much. For a bit we were waiting to see how Sproul, Ouellet and Co. would turn out. Not looking too hopeful for that top pairing dman. He whiffed on Suter and Co. So where are we now? He's content going into the season with a defense that is pretty much universally recognized as being mediocre at best.

Actually, Mike Illitch played a big part in that. Remember Mike I. had his hands in the Suter FA from the get-go? If I'm not mistaken, Mike Ilitch made the final offer. From what I gather, Ken's Hands were tied. It's easy to blame Kenny, but Suter was just using Detroit to up his bid in Minny. He wasn't coming here, he really just wanted to be with his butt buddy.

He has plenty of assets to spend to acquire that player but has not done anything of real substance. That is my problem with him, now, in 2015. All those other things are in the past. But he's not changing his approach to the changing circumstances. That is my criticism.

He landed Mike Green and Danny Dekeyser for free.

For trading, do you think teams want to trade us their #1 guy for Ferrero and Pulkenen? Lol

I don't think Larkin+ would get us a legit #1 young stud dman.

Look at it like this, if the unforeseen heart condition didn't happen to Jiri Fischer, this team would looked a lot better the past 5 years. That was a huge blow to the future of the defense.

But yeah, you can blame Ken Holland for not employing scouts that have the ability to find the Drew Doughty's, Alex Pietrangelo's or Erik Karlsson's of the world with late round picks. Those guys are worth more than Larkin's+Mantha's or anything Wings have tucked away. Those guys are not available to trade for... so how exactly is that Ken Holland's fault?

You basically have 3 options:

- Trade Larkin+Mantha+Mrazek+picks for a legit top guy (which isn't going to get you the guy you think they are worth, top dman have more value than unproven prospects)
- Tank for about 3 to 5 years (sell off all aging players and go full-on-rebuild)
- Hope/pray to draft or sign a FA that turns out to be a stud (maybe Ken Holland needs to fire some scouts and find better ones?)

This isn't xbox or PR4 or whatever it is kids play these days...

 

[SpookyTsuki]

<snip>

Could you imagine this team with a Kronner/Fischer DannyD/Green and other pairings?

Could you imagine this team with a Lidstrom/Konstantinov/Fischer/Kronner + (I think the cap would allow Raf or Stuart to be here as well, Raf didnt want money he wanted to win) dcore? Ewwwwww

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

this conversation si very difficult to follow

so far it seems like this

"of course KH couldnt in the last 8 years find a suitable top pairing dman because we have neither had a top 3 pick OR it would have cost us as 100% proven by all NHL trades over the last 35 years and absolutely no exceptions nyquist plus tatar plus sheahan plus mrazek plus larkin plus mantha therefore its a good thing we didnt make any trades, OR acquiring any of the potential good dmen would mean we couldnt ice a competitive lineup as shown by nashville, minny, montreal, chicago, tampa, ottawa, etc phew...."

that sounds about right?

 

[Dotter]

this conversation si very difficult to follow

so far it seems like this

"of course KH couldnt in the last 8 years find a suitable top pairing dman because we have neither had a top 3 pick OR it would have cost us as 100% proven by all NHL trades over the last 35 years and absolutely no exceptions nyquist plus tatar plus sheahan plus mrazek plus larkin plus mantha therefore its a good thing we didnt make any trades, OR acquiring any of the potential good dmen would mean we couldnt ice a competitive lineup as shown by nashville, minny, montreal, chicago, tampa, ottawa, etc phew...."

that sounds about right?

What does all the bolded teams have in common, that Detroit didn't/doesn't have?

Using them as an example doesn't help your point.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What does all the bolded teams have in common, that Detroit didn't/doesn't have?

Using them as an example doesn't help your point.

sorry i am confused with your post.

I am referring to what was said in all the previous posts and in one it was suggessted that if we had weber we couldnt ice a competitive team and i was saying well clearly thats the case for nashville right(ie its sarcasm as nashvilles team is as good if not better then detroits)?

i listed those other teams as further examples to this made up rule

 

[Dotter]

sorry i am confused with your post.

I am referring to what was said in all the previous posts and in one it was suggessted that if we had weber we couldnt ice a competitive team and i was saying well clearly thats the case for nashville right(ie its sarcasm as nashvilles team is as good if not better then detroits)?

i listed those other teams as further examples to this made up rule

Oh, okay.

Well it's kinda simple. Nashville can afford Shea Weber and still afford to ice a good competitive hockey team because they drafted top 11 overall 4 times the past 8 years. some of those stud players are still on ELC. Seth Jones cap hit, for example, is $925,000 this year.

Seth Jones would be our 2nd best defenseman (or our best dman since Kronwall has been slumping). He was drafted 4th overall. Wings never had a 4th overall pick since the stone age.

Despite that, Nashville were still eliminated in the 1st round last year just as Detroit was. So despite picking top 11 numberous times, having stud franchise Dmen on ELC, and affording Shea Webers' 7.8 cap hit.... they have proven nothing more than Detroit.

Wings/Holland don't look so bad when you put things into real-life perspective, huh? Of course one could point to their .500 10 game start with a new coach/system/players/and $20 million sidelined injured players and say..... "Yup, Kenny Holland Suckszzz da ArZZZ!!!, LooK at thAt terribadz recordsz!!!"

 

[The Zermanator]

Older players are getting older, younger players are getting more experience. Circle of hockey, no?

Yep. And where's the next generation of defense? DeKeyser, Ouellet, Marchenko, Jensen, Sproul? Hopefully Saarijarvi turns into something but hard to really pinpoint any kind ceiling or potential at this juncture.

Not exactly the most confidence-inspiring group is it? Hence my desire for many years now for Holland to address the issue through other means.

Wings traded all their picks pre-2005 and had nothing in the cupboard to take over. There was a promising player who got in a car accident, another fled overseas, and Fischer who had heart conditions. But really, there were no promising prospects to play. Unless you wanted a tiny immature Tatar and Nyquist that took a long time to develop? Those guys might not be the players they are today had they been rushed to the NHL.

Are you kidding me? This is a problem that went on post-2010, 5+ years after the drafts you mentioned. Again, not a ringing endorsement of Holland. Much of this happened in the last 3 years. I just really don't even know how to respond to this part of your post, it's like an alternate reality...

EDIT: Are you just doing the t-word man?

Ask Wings fans. One example Babcock was notorious for press boxin' Tatar in favor of playing useless slow vets that couldn't score. Babcock loves his vets. He's proven he doesn't have patience for younger players and their development. When he does play kids, his limited ice time was mind boggling. Another example; a young Jiri Hudler. That's probably one of the reasons Hudler took the first train out of Detroit when he had a chance. REST CUT OUT FOR LENGTH

Why are we even arguing?

Actually, Mike Illitch played a big part in that. Remember Mike I. had his hands in the Suter FA from the get-go? If I'm not mistaken, Mike Ilitch made the final offer. From what I gather, Ken's Hands were tied. It's easy to blame Kenny, but Suter was just using Detroit to up his bid in Minny. He wasn't coming here, he really just wanted to be with his butt buddy.

Are we gonna blame the owner now? Really? I guess that means Illitch should get the credit for the '97-'02 Cups because he gave Kenny a blank cheque? I mean, I wouldn't say that, but you can make that case based on your logic.

He landed Mike Green and Danny Dekeyser for free.

Are you even reading my posts that you're responding to? I'm on record on this very page saying the Green signing was a good move. DeKeyser was a good move too, doesn't change the fact that it was a gimme for Holland. Look at the two threads I linked to earlier. The vast majority of people were expecting him to sign with Detroit before he signed, and just about no one was surprised when it happened.

Look at the Hossa situation, coming to Detroit to win a Cup. Sometimes things do fall in people's laps, man. It should't be such a controversial thing to say.

For trading, do you think teams want to trade us their #1 guy for Ferrero and Pulkenen? Lol

I don't think Larkin+ would get us a legit #1 young stud dman.

Look at it like this, if the unforeseen heart condition didn't happen to Jiri Fischer, this team would looked a lot better the past 5 years. That was a huge blow to the future of the defense.

But yeah, you can blame Ken Holland for not employing scouts that have the ability to find the Drew Doughty's, Alex Pietrangelo's or Erik Karlsson's of the world with late round picks. Those guys are worth more than Larkin's+Mantha's or anything Wings have tucked away. Those guys are not available to trade for... so how exactly is that Ken Holland's fault?

You basically have 3 options:

- Trade Larkin+Mantha+Mrazek+picks for a legit top guy (which isn't going to get you the guy you think they are worth, top dman have more value than unproven prospects)
- Tank for about 3 to 5 years (sell off all aging players and go full-on-rebuild)
- Hope/pray to draft or sign a FA that turns out to be a stud (maybe Ken Holland needs to fire some scouts and find better ones?)

This isn't xbox or PR4 or whatever it is kids play these days...

For the millionth time, mischaracterizing someone's position is completely pointless. "Pulkkinen and Ferraro lol"? Please point out to me when I have ever said anything even remotely close to that? Go ahead, I'll be waiting...

Trade chips not mentioned in your '3 options':

- Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, Quincey, Helm, Abdelkader, Richards...

Are you cherry-picking to try and strengthen your argument?

I've been on record many times saying that Larkin and Mrazek are untouchable. Not everyone agrees, though...

If Mrazek could land Detroit a top 2 dman, I'd consider that and keep Howard.

But that won't go over well with Wings fans. I'll probably get flamed for suggesting it.

You mention Doughty, Pietrangelo, and Karlsson. You mention trading Larkin, Mantha, Mrazek.

If you're so interested in what I'm calling for, perhaps you should read this very thread (and many others). I've been consistently favouring two avenues:

Nyquist/Svechnikov/Marchenko/2nd for Shattenkirk

or

Tatar/Quincey/Helm/2nd for Byfuglien

or something along those lines. You know, because we've got more to offer in trade than just prospects.

I've seriously proposed theses things many, many times now. Just in the past few weeks.

 

[The Zermanator]

Wings/Holland don't look so bad when you put things into real-life perspective, huh? Of course one could point to their .500 10 game start with a new coach/system/players/and $20 million sidelined injured players and say..... "Yup, Kenny Holland Suckszzz da ArZZZ!!!, LooK at thAt terribadz recordsz!!!"

There you go mischaracterizing people again...

Sure. Let's pretend everyone's issue is with the last 10 games, not problems they've seen Holland patch with bubble gum the last few years. Now that there's water leaking in the boat...

 

[Frk It]

Agree that Dekeyser and Hossa were gimme signings. But don't think Mike Green belongs with them.

 

[The Zermanator]

Agree that Dekeyser and Hossa were gimme signings. But don't think Mike Green belongs with them.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that if that's how it came across. Green was a good signing at a good term and price. Good job, Kenny.

 

[Dotter]

I've seriously proposed theses things many, many times now. Just in the past few weeks.

Just because you propose something doesn't mean the other team's GM is interested in trading for Detroit's players. (and how do you know Ken Holland hasn't made an offer, do you think all offers are reported?)

I, like everyone else on Detroit's board over-value our prospects/players. I am guilty of that. I would love to trade Tatar and parts for Buff. Do you think Jets really want to trade for that package? And do you think Jets couldn't get a better offer from another team?

And on top of that, if Wings did overpay (more than your proposal) is Buff really the answer to all our problems or a band-aid? And does losing Tatar + parts open up new holes that Wings don't have the pieces to fill?

I'm not trying to say you are out of touch with reality, but I'm think you are very, very 'optimistic' with how things really work.

Of course you can bring up 100 examples from the past 15 years to show me how your proposal is fair, and other/neutral members can bring up 100 examples how you're out of touch with reality.

But I think you would agree top dman are worth more than gold and very, very hard to acquire via trade?

Agree that Dekeyser and Hossa were gimme signings. But don't think Mike Green belongs with them.

I'll play. Do you think Dekeyser and Hossa would have signed with DRWs if they were the 2013-2015 version of Toronto? Holland built a desirable team to play for. He treats people fairly (too a fault, but FA take notice).

When you say "gimme", does that mean Holland put together an organization that players have a desire to play for?

 

[The Zermanator]

Just because you propose something doesn't mean the other team's GM is interested in trading for Detroit's players. (and how do you know Ken Holland hasn't made an offer, do you think all offers are reported?)

I, like everyone else on Detroit's board over-value our prospects/players. I am guilty of that. I would love to trade Tatar and parts for Buff. Do you think Jets really want to trade for that package? And do you think Jets couldn't get a better offer from another team?

And on top of that, if Wings did overpay (more than your proposal) is Buff really the answer to all our problems or a band-aid? And does losing Tatar + parts open up new holes that Wings don't have the pieces to fill?

I'm not trying to say you are out of touch with reality, but I'm think you are very, very 'optimistic' with how things really work.

Of course you can bring up 100 examples from the past 15 years to show me how your proposal is fair, and other/neutral members can bring up 100 examples how you're out of touch with reality.

But I think you would agree top dman are worth more than gold and very, very hard to acquire via trade?

Really? Tatar, Quincey, Helm, and a 2nd for an upcoming UFA Byfuglien? If you don't think that's more than fair, how can you claim to over-value our players? Giving up a guaranteed 20-goal and nearly 30-goal (1 goal away) scorer in Tatar + other pieces for a UFA. Quincey is there because he can play physical and soften the blow of losing Byfuglien for Winnipeg, a potential playoff team.

Why do you insist on personal attacks? It really makes these message boards a lot less fun. Everything is completely inconsequential here, man.

As for your first paragraph, may I refer you to the title and spirit of this thread? It's not the 'Don't question Holland and talk about the team' thread. It's the 'Armchair GM' thread. Capsize?

I'll play. Do you think Dekeyser and Hossa would have signed with DRWs if they were the 2013-2015 version of Toronto? Holland built a desirable team to play for. He treats people fairly (too a fault, but FA take notice).

When you say "gimme", does that mean Holland put together an organization that players have a desire to play for?

No, but you're the only one having that argument it seems. I think if you take the time to read through my previous posts you'll find that your idea of my (and others') position towards Holland is pretty far off the mark. But just because he's done some good things doesn't mean he hasn't had some good tailwinds at times or made mistakes. It's you who seems to be having trouble viewing Holland in any kind of nuanced way.

And Parise and Suter didn't desire Detroit, at least not enough to stop them both from going to a lesser team (at least at the time).

 

[Dotter]

Really? Tatar, Quincey, Helm, and a 2nd for an upcoming UFA Byfuglien? If you don't think that's more than fair, how can you claim to over-value our players? Giving up a guaranteed 20-goal and nearly 30-goal (1 goal away) scorer in Tatar + other pieces for a UFA. Quincey is there because he can play physical and soften the blow of losing Byfuglien for Winnipeg, a potential playoff team.

If Jets are a playoff team, then why do they want to get rid of a player that can help them win?

Makes no sense.

 

[FireBird71]

Older players are getting older, younger players are getting more experience. Circle of hockey, no?



Wings traded all their picks pre-2005 and had nothing in the cupboard to take over. There was a promising player who got in a car accident, another fled overseas, and Fischer who had heart conditions. But really, there were no promising prospects to play. Unless you wanted a tiny immature Tatar and Nyquist that took a long time to develop? Those guys might not be the players they are today had they been rushed to the NHL.



Actually, Mike Illitch played a big part in that. Remember Mike I. had his hands in the Suter FA from the get-go? If I'm not mistaken, Mike Ilitch made the final offer. From what I gather, Ken's Hands were tied. It's easy to blame Kenny, but Suter was just using Detroit to up his bid in Minny. He wasn't coming here, he really just wanted to be with his butt buddy.



He landed Mike Green and Danny Dekeyser for free.

For trading, do you think teams want to trade us their #1 guy for Ferrero and Pulkenen? Lol

I don't think Larkin+ would get us a legit #1 young stud dman.

Look at it like this, if the unforeseen heart condition didn't happen to Jiri Fischer, this team would looked a lot better the past 5 years. That was a huge blow to the future of the defense.

But yeah, you can blame Ken Holland for not employing scouts that have the ability to find the Drew Doughty's, Alex Pietrangelo's or Erik Karlsson's of the world with late round picks. Those guys are worth more than Larkin's+Mantha's or anything Wings have tucked away. Those guys are not available to trade for... so how exactly is that Ken Holland's fault?

You basically have 3 options:

- Trade Larkin+Mantha+Mrazek+picks for a legit top guy (which isn't going to get you the guy you think they are worth, top dman have more value than unproven prospects)
- Tank for about 3 to 5 years (sell off all aging players and go full-on-rebuild)
- Hope/pray to draft or sign a FA that turns out to be a stud (maybe Ken Holland needs to fire some scouts and find better ones?)

This isn't xbox or PR4 or whatever it is kids play these days...

Nobody is going to trade a #1 defenseman

 

[Frk It]

I'll play. Do you think Dekeyser and Hossa would have signed with DRWs if they were the 2013-2015 version of Toronto? Holland built a desirable team to play for. He treats people fairly (too a fault, but FA take notice).

When you say "gimme", does that mean Holland put together an organization that players have a desire to play for?

Wasn't really looking to "play".

Dekeyser is a Michigan kid who grew up as a Wings fan. Yeah, that one was a gimme.

Hossa courted us instead of us courting him, but yes he came here because we won the Cup so I guess that deserves some credit.

 

[FireBird71]

Big Buff isn't going to help this team much....

 

[The Zermanator]

If Jets are a playoff team, then why do they want to get rid of a player that can help them win?

Makes no sense.

If they can acquire other players that can help them win. Players who collectively can have more of an impact for Winnipeg than Byfuglien alone. And they'll have far more to show for it if/when Byfuglien leaves for FA. They may have a hard time justifying keeping Byfuglien, Myers, and Trouba on the right side. If you'll read the trade forums, there have been quite a few Jets fan on board with that return, and a few Blues fans on board the Nyquist, Svechnikov+ proposals (not just me proposing this, mind you).

EDIT: By your logic, no playoff team should/will ever trade an important piece during the season. That makes no sense.

Ex. St Louis-Callahan trade, Gaborik, Brassard, etc. trade, and others.

 

[Dotter]

Wasn't really looking to "play".

Dekeyser is a Michigan kid who grew up as a Wings fan. Yeah, that one was a gimme.

Hossa courted us instead of us courting him, but yes he came here because we won the Cup so I guess that deserves some credit.

My confusion is if Dekeyser was a gimme, then why did Nicklas Lidstrom have to call him and persuade him to come to Detroit?

“He [Lidstrom] called me the other day when I was going through the decision process and talked to me for a few minutes,'' DeKeyser said Saturday, after his first practice with the Red Wings. “Then I got to meet him here today. So it was pretty special. That helped in my decision, definitely.''

SOURCE

If Michigan born players want to play in Detroit, why did Torey Krug re-sign with Boston instead of "exploring the market"?

 

[Dotter]

If they can acquire other players that can help them win. Players who collectively can have more of an impact for Winnipeg than Byfuglien alone. And they'll have far more to show for it if/when Byfuglien leaves for FA. They may have a hard time justifying keeping Byfuglien, Myers, and Trouba on the right side. If you'll read the trade forums, there have been quite a few Jets fan on board with that return, and a few Blues fans on board the Nyquist, Svechnikov+ proposals (not just me proposing this, mind you).

By your logic, no playoff team should/will ever trade an important piece during the season.

Sounds like you might spend too much time on the trade proposal forum.

 

[The Zermanator]

Sounds like you might spend too much time on the trade proposal forum.

Very substantive, thanks for the reply.

Maybe your right. But since your reading comprehension is apparently an issue, may I again refer you to the title of this thread?

 

[Dotter]

Very substantive, thanks for the reply.

Maybe your right. But since your reading comprehension is apparently an issue, may I again refer you to the title of this thread?

Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

I would ship Kindl, Smith and Miller out.

I would replace them with Drew Doughty, Eric Karlsson and Andrew Ladd.

I would hire Mike Babcock to be assistant coach to Blashill and hire Yzerman to be assistant GM to Ken Holland.

I would trade Larkin for Toews. I would trade Pulkenen for Filip Forsberg.

But my daughter won't let me on her xBox right now, so that'll have to wait

 

[The Zermanator]

Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

I would ship Kindl, Smith and Miller out.

I would replace them with Drew Doughty, Eric Karlsson and Andrew Ladd.

I would hire Mike Babcock to be assistant coach to Blashill and hire Yzerman to be assistant GM to Ken Holland.

I would trade Larkin for Toews. I would trade Pulkenen for Filip Forsberg.

But my daughter won't let me on her xBox right now, so that'll have to wait

As I'm sure it must be abundantly clear to any outside observer that I haven't proposed anything even close to that, coupled with your repeated attempts to elicit reactions through condescension, I'm left with nothing but to believe that you are doing something that rhymes with schmolling. Lost all desire to interact with you in any way.

Congratulations, you've 'won'!