Speculation: Armchair GM Thread - Looking to the offseason

[glenngineer]

If you're Trotz, do you keep Hynes around? Some will say, look what he's done with the lineup he's had since the blow-up party. Others will say, those players are by-products of Taylor and the work that happened in Milwaukee. I see what Taylor has done with a depleted roster of still managed to keep it together. Hynes has had no choice but to play the young guys. Maybe this was a directive from Poile/Trotz so they could evaluate the young talent. There's no way in hell that the kids would've played the minutes they have in vets were on this roster. All of them have made terrible mistakes but Hynes no choice but to let them grow or play the bottom 6 bigger minutes, which I'm sure Poile/Trotz find of no value at this point.

All that to say, I don't think Hynes should be back. I don't think he's had that type of impact. I think it's young kids having fun, playing hockey and being afforded ice time. I fire Hynes at the end of the year and once the AHL playoffs are done, I'm handing the keys to Taylor in a nanosecond. I think he got these kids ready to be contributors and all they needed was a chance.

Then again, maybe we make the playoffs, go on a deep playoff run and Hynes gets to stick around for a while. That's why you gotta love hockey.

 

[Armourboy]

As I've said previously Hynes is a mediocre coach. He will bring a rough to up to being mediocre and bring a good team down to being mediocre. Reminds me of Paul Maurice in a lot of ways.

 

[NSH615]

If you're Trotz, do you keep Hynes around? Some will say, look what he's done with the lineup he's had since the blow-up party. Others will say, those players are by-products of Taylor and the work that happened in Milwaukee. I see what Taylor has done with a depleted roster of still managed to keep it together. Hynes has had no choice but to play the young guys. Maybe this was a directive from Poile/Trotz so they could evaluate the young talent. There's no way in hell that the kids would've played the minutes they have in vets were on this roster. All of them have made terrible mistakes but Hynes no choice but to let them grow or play the bottom 6 bigger minutes, which I'm sure Poile/Trotz find of no value at this point.

All that to say, I don't think Hynes should be back. I don't think he's had that type of impact. I think it's young kids having fun, playing hockey and being afforded ice time. I fire Hynes at the end of the year and once the AHL playoffs are done, I'm handing the keys to Taylor in a nanosecond. I think he got these kids ready to be contributors and all they needed was a chance.

Then again, maybe we make the playoffs, go on a deep playoff run and Hynes gets to stick around for a while. That's why you gotta love hockey.

I don't think he deserves it but I think Trotz may be asked to keep him by ownership right now while the ownership transition is going on since firing him means paying him another year to sit at home as there's no way another team hires him.

 

[PredsV82]

I don't think he deserves it but I think Trotz may be asked to keep him by ownership right now while the ownership transition is going on since firing him means paying him another year to sit at home as there's no way another team hires him.

I cant imagine Trotz was hired and then handcuffed like that.

 

[Enoch]

Hynes is a mistake. Move on. Quit doubling and tripling down.

 

[PredsV82]

Hynes is a mistake. Move on. Quit doubling and tripling down.

Yeah. "Fair" or not, it's time to turn the page.

I just cant imagine that the idea was to hire a new GM, trade a lot of the vets, but keep the same coach.

I really want Taylor to get a shot.

 

[hido]

Yeah. "Fair" or not, it's time to turn the page.

I just cant imagine that the idea was to hire a new GM, trade a lot of the vets, but keep the same coach.

I really want Taylor to get a shot.

On June 16, 2022, The Gold Standard pod interviewed Karl Taylor and it’s an impressive showing by Taylor. I highly recommend giving it a listen if you don’t know why so many of us want to see him get the job.

 

[LCPreds]

It's kind of a strange thing how pro sports teams tend to prefer retreads vs. giving someone new a shot. Our team is likely going to be filled with youngsters so why not pair them with a guy who they are familiar with and who also knows very well what it's like to coach a team of youngsters to their max potential. You've already got the pedigree of recent NHL coaching success and Stanley Cup winning experience in the front office. Seems like a good combo to me.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

It's kind of a strange thing how pro sports teams tend to prefer retreads vs. giving someone new a shot. Our team is likely going to be filled with youngsters so why not pair them with a guy who they are familiar with and who also knows very well what it's like to coach a team of youngsters to their max potential. You've already got the pedigree of recent NHL coaching success and Stanley Cup winning experience in the front office. Seems like a good combo to me.

Multi-millions of dollars are on on the line, you go with the known, even if subpar quantity, and believe you are able to mitigate the negatives you know are there over going with the completely unknown entity.

Look at professional football, a massive team like Chelsea takes a chance on the relative unknown in Graham Potter (coming from relative minnow Brighton) after canning their Champions League-winning coach shortly into the season, and now have sacked him because he was clearly out of his depth. Barring being able to close a 4-game gap with 10 games to play (would be a very unusual feat to pull off), they are out of the Champions League for next year, which affects revenue and player recruitment. Now football is a different beast (and Chelsea a unique example), but it's the same type of mentality.

 

[predwings]

Multi-millions of dollars are on on the line, you go with the known, even if subpar quantity, and believe you are able to mitigate the negatives you know are there over going with the completely unknown entity.

Look at professional football, a massive team like Chelsea takes a chance on the relative unknown in Graham Potter (coming from relative minnow Brighton) after canning their Champions League-winning coach shortly into the season, and now have sacked him because he was clearly out of his depth. Barring being able to close a 4-game gap with 10 games to play (would be a very unusual feat to pull off), they are out of the Champions League for next year, which affects revenue and player recruitment. Now football is a different beast (and Chelsea a unique example), but it's the same type of mentality.

There are plenty of re-treads that don't work out as well, they all had to be new coaches at one point along the way. The old gentleman's club vibe should be a thing of the past, try something new with the coach while we are in a transition. We can always give them a 3 year deal and fire them year 2 to find someone else if we need to once the rebuild is nearly complete and we're on the upswing.

I know some of you have playoff hopes for next year, but I'd temper expectations a little considering fast turn-arounds like this rarely (if ever) workout. We need a true #1 center again, don't think Joey will be around much longer and it's getting increasingly likely Duchene is going to start his slide downwards since he's 32 going on 33 now.

Outside of our ability to pay people money, I don't see a ton of top level UFA guys looking at us a legitimate landing spots considering our current rebuilding situation, so we will have to fortify ourselves from the draft and the pipeline or trades.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I don't really care about retread versus hot new coach. It's more about fitting the right fit for a team. Thankfully our new GM is a Hall of Fame coach so I'll trust his judgement in assessing what type of coach this team needs and picking the right guy.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't really care about retread versus hot new coach. It's more about fitting the right fit for a team. Thankfully our new GM is a Hall of Fame coach so I'll trust his judgement in assessing what type of coach this team needs and picking the right guy.

Trotz has a blank slate afaic anyway. I won't blanket trust his judgement until he earns it... but let's say instead that I am at least inclined to be optimistic about the likelihood that he makes a good choice. He has been an extremely successful NHL coach, one of the best of all time. But that doesn't completely preclude the possibility that he will fail as a GM, that the skills aren't entirely transferable.

The organization has certainly seen a lot of Karl Taylor, and should be very aware of his fit with at least the younger half of our team. If they still don't choose him, and go instead with either a retread, some other hot new coach, or (heaven forbid) retaining Hynes... well, it will be interesting to hear the rationale behind that vs. promoting Taylor.

 

[Scoresberg]

It's Taylor or bust for me. Don't care going for a guy like Boudreau or whoever's out there.

Taylor knows the organization, knows the players and is ready to take the next step.

 

[herzausstein]

With how much of this team has been in Milwaukee the last couple seasons, i think taylor makes alot of sense. My only question is do we let him get some time with L'Heureux, Svechkov (maybe), Kemell, Burke, and Schaefer next season so he can get an honest evaluation on potential or just bring him up and be done with the hynes experiment?

 

[ShagDaddy]

With how much of this team has been in Milwaukee the last couple seasons, i think taylor makes alot of sense. My only question is do we let him get some time with L'Heureux, Svechkov (maybe), Kemell, Burke, and Schaefer next season so he can get an honest evaluation on potential or just bring him up and be done with the hynes experiment?

Bring him up. Let Scott Ford take over as HC in Milwaukee or give Hinote a shot at HC in Milwaukee

 

[Armourboy]

Thing is if you don't promote Taylor fairly soonish you are going to lose him more than likely. I mean even Evanson got a shot and I don't think he was worth a damn in Milwaukee, so someone that's actually doing a decent job ain't going to be around long.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Thing is if you don't promote Taylor fairly soonish you are going to lose him more than likely. I mean even Evanson got a shot and I don't think he was worth a damn in Milwaukee, so someone that's actually doing a decent job ain't going to be around long.

Flip side to that is Old Boys network. Evason played, Taylor didn’t. So who knows. Nobody talks about Taylor except us here. Better to profit from that before it’s too late.

I do wish he had come here with an interim tag like 3 months ago though. Then everybody would know and his feet would be wet already.

 

[Armourboy]

Flip side to that is Old Boys network. Evason played, Taylor didn’t. So who knows. Nobody talks about Taylor except us here. Better to profit from that before it’s too late.

I do wish he had come here with an interim tag like 3 months ago though. Then everybody would know and his feet would be wet already.

Yeah but I get why we didn't. Granted that was before we knew most of the team was going to be out and we were going to take most of his players just to finish the season out. The fact he keeps winning despite that is one of the main reasons I think he deserves a shot.

 

[Enoch]

Hynes should be fired just on the basis of the Eli Tolvanen decision making. The Predators lost a top 6 forward due to stubbornness and poor coaching.

I could go on and on, but when you lose a first round talent caliber player, who immediately succeeds at another location (when given obvious chances) .... it is on the head coach who made those decisions.

Again, there are many other reasons, but it is really that simple.

Is John Hynes worth a first round pick? No. There isn't a team in the league who would be willing to sacrifice a first round selection for him (or any compensation for that matter). Well, he is costing us first round talents, getting outcoached, and getting stomped in the playoffs. Bye John. Please go. Wish we never had you here.

 

[101st_fan]

Hynes should be fired just on the basis of the Eli Tolvanen decision making. You lost a top 6 forward due to stubborness and poor coaching.

I could go on and on, but when you lose a first round talent, caliber player, who immediately succeeds when given obvious chances.... it is on you.

Again, there are many other reasons, but it is really that simple.

Is John Hynes worth a first round pick? No. Well he is costing us first round talents, getting outcoached, getting stomped in the playoffs. Bye John. Please go. Wish we never had you here.

Yet he didn't do those things when given chances in Nashville over the span of 98 games from when he suddenly fell off in April 2021 to when he was waived rather than the team putting Boro on LTIR to keep the team cap complaint while retaining Tolvanen. He put up one PP goal from April 4, 2021 - waiving while leading PP2 in TOI for 2021-22 ... plus 13 ES goals from Apr 21 while getting more average ES TOI than Novak.

For whatever reason, Tolvy was the ONE player that didn't figure out how to work his way back up the lines after he started struggling. Great for him to, at least in the short term, finally find that next level of play.

 

[triggrman]

Yet he didn't do those things when given chances in Nashville over the span of 98 games from when he suddenly fell off in April 2021 to when he was waived rather than the team putting Boro on LTIR to keep the team cap complaint while retaining Tolvanen. He put up one PP goal from April 4, 2021 - waiving while leading PP2 in TOI for 2021-22 ... plus 13 ES goals from Apr 21 while getting more average ES TOI than Novak.

For whatever reason, Tolvy was the ONE player that didn't figure out how to work his way back up the lines after he started struggling. Great for him to, at least in the short term, finally find that next level of play.

Not many have figured out how to score consistently for Hynes. Seems like no one repeats good numbers.

I also want to say Tolvanen still so young. It was a mistake all the way around.

 

[Enoch]

Yet he didn't do those things when given chances in Nashville over the span of 98 games from when he suddenly fell off in April 2021 to when he was waived rather than the team putting Boro on LTIR to keep the team cap complaint while retaining Tolvanen. He put up one PP goal from April 4, 2021 - waiving while leading PP2 in TOI for 2021-22 ... plus 13 ES goals from Apr 21 while getting more average ES TOI than Novak.

For whatever reason, Tolvy was the ONE player that didn't figure out how to work his way back up the lines after he started struggling. Great for him to, at least in the short term, finally find that next level of play.

We disagree on the opportunities he had here over the last season and a half. The stats are misleading to some degree on his true chances.

I think we all know how Hynes can be with line shuffling, the doghouse, and his decision to bench players.

It was the wrong call with Tolvanen. We wasted years of development and a true first round goalscoring talent because of Hyne's coaching methods.

 

[101st_fan]

Disagree. You and I are not on the same page here. You advocated and agreed with the move. You have the same blind spot here IMO.

I didn't advocate for it. It's impossible to advocate for or against something in the past that can't be changed. I said I understood why it was made based on 98 games of output by Tolvanen. Major difference.

What that I said about his performance is in any way wrong? What that I've highlighted in the past about the cap situation in December with the injury situation was wrong?

It was a complex situation where the team chose to waive him based on what he'd done over the span of a season plus rather than keep him up, put Boro on LTIR and then send down a different player. After being a healthy scratch for over two weeks, he put up a hell of a January, then held at a decent pace ... something he failed to do as a Pred. The change of scenery did him good.

ETA
What gets lost in all of this is that there is no guarantee that Tolvanen puts up similar numbers if he stays a Pred. What is a fact is the next forward called up once the blueline injuries resolved themselves was Tommy Novak who is performing in gold ... in fact outperforming Tolvanen.

 

[Enoch]

I am not ignoring you 101. I edited my response to not seem antagonistic. I do think we disagree about the Tolvanen situation. I think Hynes gave him very little rope this year. I do not want to beat a dead horse and go over all of this again, so I will just state, we see the situation differently. You agreed with the move. I did not. It is a fireable offense to me.

Regardless:

The Predators are not in the playoffs as of now with 5 games remaining. They are 5-5 in the last 10 games. They have a -11 goal differential on the year. They have a superb goaltender and norris caliber defenseman. They are only even at -11 because of Saros.

Hynes doesn't have it at the NHL level. It is painfully obvious. The players who are succeeding right now, had a full season with a different coach. He is only playing them because he has no choice at this juncture.

 

[101st_fan]

I am not ignoring you 101. I edited my response to not seem antagonistic. I do think we disagree about the Tolvanen situation. I think Hynes gave him very little rope this year. I do not want to beat a dead horse and go over all of this again, so I will just state, we see the situation differently. You agreed with the move. I did not. It is a fireable offense to me.

Regardless:

The Predators are not in the playoffs as of now with 5 games remaining. They are 5-5 in the last 10 games. They have a -11 goal differential on the year. They have a superb goaltender and norris caliber defenseman. They are only even at -11 because of Saros.

Hynes doesn't have it at the NHL level. It is painfully obvious. The players who are succeeding right now, had a full season with a different coach. He is only playing them because he has no choice at this juncture.

Yet the Preds are 12th in the league in wins since his taking over. He's midpoint in points percentage. Not great, not what you portray. That's using 3+ years of data for comparison.

Tolvanen didn't get much rope this season based on 85 +/- games of precedence. Sherwood didn't get much rope early in the season either. Once Parssinen came up, Granlund moved to wing, and Glass improved the top 9 was solidified and Tolvanen was relegated to the pressbox or 4th line.

Looking at his line combos at ES last sesaon ... Tolvy/ Kunin / Joey 204 minutes, Granny / Kunin / Tolvy 155 minutes, Dutchy / Granny/ Tovly 103 minutes ... so he got his chances with 2nd line linemates at ES (those three combos are over 50% of his ES TOI). Him / McCarron / Luff was 29 minutes for comparison.