Speculation: Armchair GM Thread III: Post Deadline, Now with more armchairing

[InfinityIggy]

Here's the thing, Treliving was clearly okay with adding Zucker's 5.5M cap hit for the next four years with only Frolik going out. So while us fans believe Frolik would need to be moved just to re-sign everyone else, Treliving seems to have other plans. Either he thinks Tkachuk will be cheaper than everyone thinks or he already has plans to offload other salary. And based off of that, it's doesn't otherworldly to suggest that for better or worse, the Flames will be active in the trade or free agent market.

And for the record, I still like Neal signing despite him being a disappoint offensively. I really like what he brings to room, as much as something like that can be surmised by someone on the sidelines.

While this is true, there is only a 1.2M difference in cap hit between the two of them, and given the rumor of our 1st+ going the other way, some retention may have been in play as well. My suspicion is that in addition to Frolik being traded, Treliving thinks he can get some cap relief in the way of Smiths current contract coming off the books (and running a cheaper goaltending tandem next year) + 900k combined from Bouma and Murphy buyouts expiring.

 

[super6646]

Here's the thing, Treliving was clearly okay with adding Zucker's 5.5M cap hit for the next four years with only Frolik going out. So while us fans believe Frolik would need to be moved just to re-sign everyone else, Treliving seems to have other plans. Either he thinks Tkachuk will be cheaper than everyone thinks or he already has plans to offload other salary. And based off of that, it's doesn't otherworldly to suggest that for better or worse, the Flames will be active in the trade or free agent market.

And for the record, I still like Neal signing despite him being a disappoint offensively. I really like what he brings to room, as much as something like that can be surmised by someone on the sidelines.

What about cold hard numbers? How the hell do you fit tkachuk at saying 7.5 million and Bennett at 3 million if we add more to our tight situation already?

 

[DFF]

What about cold hard numbers? How the hell do you fit tkachuk at saying 7.5 million and Bennett at 3 million if we add more to our tight situation already?

We say goodbye to Bennett in that case

Time is up for him to be a real impact player...

 

[Sparky93]

Here's the thing, Treliving was clearly okay with adding Zucker's 5.5M cap hit for the next four years with only Frolik going out. So while us fans believe Frolik would need to be moved just to re-sign everyone else, Treliving seems to have other plans. Either he thinks Tkachuk will be cheaper than everyone thinks or he already has plans to offload other salary. And based off of that, it's doesn't otherworldly to suggest that for better or worse, the Flames will be active in the trade or free agent market.

And for the record, I still like Neal signing despite him being a disappoint offensively. I really like what he brings to room, as much as something like that can be surmised by someone on the sidelines.

In theory, moving Frolik and Brodie, while playing Stone one the bottom pairing, would essentially give us enough cap to bridge Tkachuk, as well as adding another forward.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to give Tkachuk a 3 year bridge. Matthews, Marner, Laine, Aho, Rantanen, McAvoy, Boeser, Provorov, Konecny and the list goes on. There’s going to be some insane contracts handed out and this might not be the year to be locking up a kid long term. Gio and Johnny both have 3 years left. After that, at least one of them won’t be on the team. Our goal should be signing Tkachuk to as little as possible, in order to add to the team in this timeframe. Looking at the comparables this year, that simply doesn’t seem possible, long term.

 

[Flameshomer]

^^ Been saying this since the deadline! Maximize this next 4 years, worry about the pain after that. This is the best core the flames have had in many of our lifetimes.

 

[Sparky93]

^^ Been saying this since the deadline! Maximize this next 4 years, worry about the pain after that. This is the best core the flames have had in many of our lifetimes.

Lightning did it with Koch and he already had two 60+ seasons under his belt.

 

[Flameshomer]

Lightning did it with Koch and he already had two 60+ seasons under his belt.

If we can get Tkachuk at 3 years around 5.75 that would be a hell of a deal (roughly the same as Kuch's bridge) it would be a hell of a steal. I think the leafs may have boned us on that one though. That Matthews contract is kind of silly. Great player but 3 RFA years at soooo much money.

 

[Sparky93]

Lightning did it with Koch and he already had two 60+ seasons under his belt.

The potential is there to have quite a few good players become cap casualties, from players signing long term too.

 

[Sparky93]

If we can get Tkachuk at 3 years around 5.75 that would be a hell of a deal (roughly the same as Kuch's bridge) it would be a hell of a steal. I think the leafs may have boned us on that one though. That Matthews contract is kind of silly. Great player but 3 RFA years at soooo much money.

They more or less did that to themselves with the $11 million Tavares deal. What you’re suggesting falls in line with every other deal on the Flames.

 

[Figgy44]

One team I am extremely curious about is the Ducks. I feel like they are teetering between retool for one last huzzah or rebuild. I think Gibson would be a guy worth paying a king's ransom for if Ducks go full rebuild. I'd offer huge combos of first and seconds plus prospects in a heartbeat and the Ducks scouting is ridiculous. They'd probably get very good pieces even with later firsts and seconds.

Another I am curious about is Jacob Markstrom. Vancouver fans seem interested in moving him and I think that he would be a decent fit talent/age/cap wise if they decide to move him.

Lastly, I still think Allen is a guy who is miscast. Due to the low volume of shots against, I think the Blues plays in a way that allows a guy like Elliott to thrive. On the other hand, I feel like Allen is a guy who needs a decent shot volume to stay ready. When a goalie doesn't get much action and essentially gets cold during the game, sometimes it makes it that much more difficult to make even basic saves. Allen still makes bonkers saves on occasion. I personally feel Allen would thrive in a consistent workload system as opposed to the Blue's system which seems like it goes from nothingness to firefighting. However, I think we are also a low SA styled system which means Allen might not be in a very different situation if we acquired him. Tampa for instance sits middle of the pack for SA.

I think Dubnyk is a guy worth looking into if Minny wants to move him, but I feel like it's more likely they plan to retool than rebuild. If that's the case, I'd consider blindsiding Fenton by throwing some assets for Kaapo Kahkonen. IIRC, Minny's prospect pool is quite shallow. Doing a quality for quantity move (Minny wouldn't necessarily need another goalie prospect for a while if they stick with Dubnyk) could possibly work as part of a bigger deal. I think Gilles/MacDonald etc. could turn out decent, but we don't have the luxury of sitting on Gilles/MacDonald/Parsons/Schneider if all of them are essentially at the same distance from the NHL. We need to either take on some longer term projects, or find guys who are closer to being able to be trusted as a backup. IMO, KK is in the same tier as goalie prospects like Jarry who also may shake free.

HM: Joonas Korpisalo. What the heck happened to this guy? He was one touted as a top tier up and comer in the same vein as Saros. But both he and Mrazek seemed to tumble quickly from that echelon.


I perceive there will be a big fight for certain goalies entering the market. The guys above are guys that I think other GMs aren't as focused on and a guy like Treliving could squirrel out one of these guys for a reasonable price while other teams fight over the other options in the spotlight. I often will have certain feelings about certain goalies and of the above, Markstrom and Allen are guys who have been there a for a little while now.

Varly and Bob do not impress me right now and it's not a talent thing. I don't feel like they will fit cap structure wise in our current setup due to how much spotlight there are on these guys right now. A bunch of teams are looking at them, so IMO, we should move away from where the main pack is looking. We also all know that Treliving isn't great in FA. I think Markstrom and Allen could be had for decent deals if those orgs are looking to upgrade or promote from within. I think Gibson would be idiotic expensive but worth it if he becomes available (it's also in Anaheim's benefit to get stomped by the Flames for a few seasons if they go full rebuild) but I'd guess the likelihood of an Anaheim rebuild is quite low.

 

[Body Checker]

Gaudreau-Monohan-Lindholm-Hanifin-Tkachuk-Andersson-Kylington-Valimaki-Bennett-Czarnik-Dube-Mangiapane-Jankowski...……...those are all guys 25 and under that will all be full time NHL regulars next year. That is an incredible list of players that 5 years ago we wouldn't have imagined having in this organization right now. Really the only thing Treliving has to do is NOT screw up this depth. Just move out a few vets for cap space; add the right vets in the right spots and watch this team be a perennial playoff contender for another 3 seasons at least.

Of course my opinion will change if we lose out in the first round, lol

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I'd love to pick up a Hayes or a Panarin in the summer, but realistically the Flames are out of any big name acquisitions in free agency. Look at what Stone got - $9.5 million - and factor down accordingly.

I think the Flames are OK down the middle. Not elite, but to get elite you're trading Monahan, not adding with him on the roster. Monahan - Backlund - Jankowski isn't sexy but it'll get the job done. So you upgrade on the wings instead.

Point could be a possible trade target. Tampa will need defense after this season as most of their corps are UFA in 2019. Brodie, Dube & stuff (Frolik?) for Point - is that any kind of realistic?

Point is their 1C lol, we pretty much aren't good trading partners, and the one player they'd want for Point aka Gaudreau is redundant with Kucherov. Besides Point wants way more than Gaudreau makes currently anyways.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

No, not even close. It would be Monahan or Lindholm ++, and that’s only if they couldn’t afford to sign him.

If Monahan was truly the main piece going for Point, Treliving should win GM of the year automatically.

 

[Kranix]

Point could be a possible trade target. Tampa will need defense after this season as most of their corps are UFA in 2019. Brodie, Dube & stuff (Frolik?) for Point - is that any kind of realistic?

No he couldn't be a trade target. It would start with Gaudreau.

 

[Calculon]

Point plays centre for the Lightning, correct? So naturally, they'd want a centreman to replace Point in the unlikely event they couldn't agree to terms and decide to trade him. It'd start with Monahan then; the four years left at 6.375M would be extremely attractive in that scenario. Flames would get the more dynamic centre (with a much higher cap hit) while the Lightning get a quality cost controlled pivot for the next four years plus maybe some more pieces.

And depending on what else the Flames would have to give up, a Monahan for Point as the basis of a deal would likely be a win for them.

 

[Sparky93]

If Monahan was truly the main piece going for Point, Treliving should win GM of the year automatically.

Why? There’s less than a year and a half between them and the difference between their production over the last 2 years, is 9 points. Both play with elite wingers, on top teams. Both are 30+ goal scorers. The difference is, one guy is going to be making $3-4 million more than the other, after this season. The incentive for Tampa, is pretty obvious, similar production and saving $3-4 million in cap space, especially with Stamkos already on the team. For it to make sense for Treliving, he would have to feel that Point was clearly, beyond all doubt, head and shoulders above Monahan, basically one of the very top centres in the game.

 

[Nanuuk]

I was reading somewhere (might have even been here!) that Dillon Dube is a Brayden Point 2.0 or will be a close facsimile. If that projection is a possibility, I'm not sure shipping Monahan out for a player like Point would be that good of an idea. Maybe for speed and that's about it.

 

[crackdown44]

Tampa isn’t trading Point. They have so many players that would be cap casualties before him

It’s like saying we should trade away Gaudreau so we can afford to sign Tkachuk. The conversation is moot

 

[Sparky93]

Tampa isn’t trading Point. They have so many players that would be cap casualties before him

It’s like saying we should trade away Gaudreau so we can afford to sign Tkachuk. The conversation is moot

I don’t know, I think they have a decent pool but already have quite a few holes to fill. Probably not, but if his demands are outrageous, it could happen.

 

[Mobiandi]

Point, a #1C with RFA status that is putting up the points that he is, is probably the most valuable commodity in the NHL. He's untouchable

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Why? There’s less than a year and a half between them and the difference between their production over the last 2 years, is 9 points. Both play with elite wingers, on top teams. Both are 30+ goal scorers. The difference is, one guy is going to be making $3-4 million more than the other, after this season. The incentive for Tampa, is pretty obvious, similar production and saving $3-4 million in cap space, especially with Stamkos already on the team. For it to make sense for Treliving, he would have to feel that Point was clearly, beyond all doubt, head and shoulders above Monahan, basically one of the very top centres in the game.

Point is going to be making 3-4 million more than the other and worth it.

The tier gap between Monahan and Point is like the tier gap between Giordano and Fantenberg. To acquire point we would have to offer our Gaudreau+Lindholm.

I was reading somewhere (might have even been here!) that Dillon Dube is a Brayden Point 2.0 or will be a close facsimile. If that projection is a possibility, I'm not sure shipping Monahan out for a player like Point would be that good of an idea. Maybe for speed and that's about it.

Dube plays a similar style game to Point but doesn't have nearly the same vision, elusiveness, shooting skill, and general elite ability. Dube is a lot closer to a LHS JG Pageau than Brayden Point.

Brayden Point is basically what Gaudreau would be if Gaudreau were a great two-way center with an elite shot.

 

[Volica]

f*** me.
Gap between Point and Monahan being Giordano and Fanta; essentially down the middle we have the equivalent of:

Fanta
Stone
Bartkowski
Prout

 

[Flames Fanatic]

The tier gap between Monahan and Point is like the tier gap between Giordano and Fantenberg.

You just adore being the king of over the top hyperbole don't you.

 

[DCDM]

The tier gap between Monahan and Point is like the tier gap between Giordano and Fantenberg.

You don't actually believe this, do you? This is by far your worst post and you've had some doozies.

 

[Yung Rotini]

Point is going to be making 3-4 million more than the other and worth it.

The tier gap between Monahan and Point is like the tier gap between Giordano and Fantenberg. To acquire point we would have to offer our Gaudreau+Lindholm.



Dube plays a similar style game to Point but doesn't have nearly the same vision, elusiveness, shooting skill, and general elite ability. Dube is a lot closer to a LHS JG Pageau than Brayden Point.

Brayden Point is basically what Gaudreau would be if Gaudreau were a great two-way center with an elite shot.

So.. not Johnny Gaudreau at all?

I’m not even going to mention the rest of this post.