Speculation: Armchair GM Thread III: Post Deadline, Now with more armchairing

[Sparky93]

If the opportunity is there to get Point you do it despite some opinions the guy is a star with the potential to leave JG in his dust... Who else would trade for JG? Carolina wouldn't give up Aho... The only other trades would be a Kessel or Hall trade pretty much straight across and the Flames lose based on age an/or term of the contracts. An extended Hall I might be interested in.

I agree on Point, the kid has crazy skills and a burning desire to win that is rare on the Flames. Other than that, we’d probably be looking at a down grade on Johnny, packaged with some big time potential. Maybe something like Schwartz/Schenn + Thomas?
I was only half joking in the Coyotes GDT.
-Gaudreau + Monahan for Point + Miller
-Bennett + 1st for Zucker

Tkachuk-Point-Lindholm
Zucker-Backlund-Miller

In all honesty, I have my doubts that our current team will ever take us further into the playoffs, than that one would.

 

[super6646]

Yes, let’s trade the core away...

 

[viper0220]

I agree on Point, the kid has crazy skills and a burning desire to win that is rare on the Flames. Other than that, we’d probably be looking at a down grade on Johnny, packaged with some big time potential. Maybe something like Schwartz/Schenn + Thomas?
I was only half joking in the Coyotes GDT.
-Gaudreau + Monahan for Point + Miller
-Bennett + 1st for Zucker

Tkachuk-Point-Lindholm
Zucker-Backlund-Miller

In all honesty, I have my doubts that our current team will ever take us further into the playoffs, than that one would.

This playoffs will give management, a indicaton of where this core stands.

If this core can do good, than the core stays together and pieces are added to it and they are given every chance to succeed and win a Stanley Cup. If this core shows good promise, than ownership and management, will do everything in their power to help them.

If this core does not do good and make a deep playoff run, than I think some pieces of the core will changed(traded), to give the core, what management thinks they are missing. Brad Trevling has had enough time with this core, to see where they need fixing and where they are good, so I would not be surprised to see him, make blockbusters. If this happens than I think the likely core pieces that are changed (traded) are Monahan and Brodie.

We and the management, needs to see what this core can do and these playoffs will be a very good indication of what they are. Until than:

Go Flames Go.

 

[Mobiandi]

If the Flames burn out in the first round many core pieces(Guys 25 plus on good value contracts) could be moved.

This does not seem like Brad "The Process" Treliving's M.O. at all.

Look around at Pittsburgh and Washington. No big, dramatic trades despite years of playoff disappointment and both were eventually rewarded with cups between 2016-2018.

Treliving is a patient man, and he just spent an entire offseason re-modelling the team. It's not happening two years in a row

 

[Sparky93]

Yes, let’s trade the core away...

If the core doesn’t have the backbone to make any sort of noise down the stretch or in the playoffs, then, ya that’s exactly what you do. Not for magic beans but if they fail and the chance is there to package him for Point, I’d be all over it.

 

[Sparky93]

This does not seem like Brad "The Process" Treliving's M.O. at all.

Look around at Pittsburgh and Washington. No big, dramatic trades despite years of playoff disappointment and both were eventually rewarded with cups between 2016-2018.

Treliving is a patient man, and he just spent an entire offseason re-modelling the team. It's not happening two years in a row

Treliving is also a smart man. I think even if you believe Johnny is on the same level as Ovechkin, how a 6’3, 235 pound guy handles the playoffs could be exceedingly different from a guy that’s 5’9, 165 pounds. Also, Monahan/Backlund isn’t even comparable to Backstrom/Kuznetsov. But time will tell, one way or the other.

 

[SKRusty]

Yes, let’s trade the core away...

The statements were predicated on the Flames performing dismally in the first round losing in 4-5 games. If that happens I don't believe there is a safe player. The safest Chucky, the rookies, Hanifin, and Hamonic.

This does not seem like Brad "The Process" Treliving's M.O. at all.

Look around at Pittsburgh and Washington. No big, dramatic trades despite years of playoff disappointment and both were eventually rewarded with cups between 2016-2018.

Treliving is a patient man, and he just spent an entire offseason re-modelling the team. It's not happening two years in a row

Last year proves exactly the opposite. BT and his management team assessed the team and then took what many consider our largest asset and traded him to the Hurricanes in a trade almost every analyst said on trade day we lost. BT is not afraid to move pieces that he determines to be part of the problem. FYI BT loved Ferly but he determined this was the best option for the team.

Rutherford is known for making moves like Kessel, Shultz, and a couple years ago Iggy.

In Washington they have had a constant rebuild of the best defensemen in addition to UFA forwards. (The only one that kind of worked was Arnott as he taught Ovi the effort needed to win a cup) Hell they traded Forsberg away with the hope they had the final piece.... We all know how that turned out. FYI where is McPhee??? He was a large part in constructing the existing Capitals. Washington stopped at nothing in order to try and win. Arrnott, Jagr, Semin, Kozlov, and so on.

The question is does Calgary possess a playoff star performer or do they have stars like Joe Thorton, Marleau, Marcel Dionne, CuJo, Mats Sundin, Adam Oates, Dino Ciccarelli, or Phil Housley that looked great all season long until they hit the playoffs and disappeared.

Calgary has 1 forward that is a borderline Star right now in Johnny... The rest are just very good players to this point.

 

[Mobiandi]

Last year proves exactly the opposite. BT and his management team assessed the team and then took what many consider our largest asset and traded him to the Hurricanes in a trade almost every analyst said on trade day we lost. BT is not afraid to move pieces that he determines to be part of the problem. FYI BT loved Ferly but he determined this was the best option for the team.

Last summer's moves were ones that needed to be made. But we won't see them again next summer. On top of the coaching staff, 5 of our top 13 forwards and 5 of our top 8 defensemen (not including Fantenberg) were brand new additions to the team.

Rutherford is known for making moves like Kessel, Shultz, and a couple years ago Iggy.

No core players were given up in any of those trades by the Penss.

In Washington they have had a constant rebuild of the best defensemen in addition to UFA forwards. (The only one that kind of worked was Arnott as he taught Ovi the effort needed to win a cup) Hell they traded Forsberg away with the hope they had the final piece.... We all know how that turned out. FYI where is McPhee??? He was a large part in constructing the existing Capitals. Washington stopped at nothing in order to try and win. Arrnott, Jagr, Semin, Kozlov, and so on.

Forsberg never suited up for the Caps.

Again, the Caps added players to get them over the hump. But they never subtracted pieces in dramatic fashion like the Oilers did with Eberle.

The question is does Calgary possess a playoff star performer or do they have stars like Joe Thorton, Marleau, Marcel Dionne, CuJo, Mats Sundin, Adam Oates, Dino Ciccarelli, or Phil Housley that looked great all season long until they hit the playoffs and disappeared.

Calgary has 1 forward that is a borderline Star right now in Johnny... The rest are just very good players to this point.

Hard to say. But regardless of what happens, I think our core forwards are safe. I do see us trading a Dman soon but it will be to further pad our top 6

If we look at the history so far:
2015 - Fluke year but managed to sweep aside a 100 point team in the Canucks before falling to the Ducks who were damn good that year
2017 - Horribly, horribly outcoached, not outplayed in 5v5 + some of the worst playoff goaltending ever, on display

I can't blame our core for either of those exits and it's not like the team is on its last legs, needing to make a change desperately.

What I would do now is fine-tune the lines and look to get the team going again entering the playoffs.

 

[SKRusty]

I can't blame our core for either of those exits and it's not like the team is on its last legs, needing to make a change desperately.

What I would do now is fine-tune the lines and look to get the team going again entering the playoffs.

Personally I think the Flames are good enough to get through round 2 which would mean very few moves.

Others mentioned changes that could be made and some were saying (wrongly in my opinion) who was safe and who was not in the negative scenario and I just clarified what the worst possible scenario would likely result in.

There are many players on this roster that will be judged by how well the team and they do in the post season. Frolik, Bennett, Backlund, and Stone all need to contribute to team success for their futures in Calgary to solidified. Frolik is definitely in the most precarious situation if he wants to remain a Flame. Backlund and Bennett just can't be the reason we lose and unless Stone somehow becomes a MVP of several series he is gone.

That said if they choke in the first round Tre will look at the core.

 

[crazyfisherman]

How flames fans continue to undervalue gaudreau is beyond me.

 

[SKRusty]

How flames fans continue to undervalue gaudreau is beyond me.

Or are you over valuing him?

Because he has the same points as McDavid does that make him as good? Of course not.

Johnny has grown this year and I am more on the fence about him as ever but to this point he has not shown he is capable of being Martin St. Louis good in the playoffs. The last 3-4 weeks with the increased focus on defense has Johnny's turnover numbers going through the roof with many of those turnovers happening on the worst places on the ice. Johnny and the first line have gone cold because Johnny is insisting on using the same dangles he was using when the opposition wasn't focusing on defense. For Johnny to be effective he has to be the play-maker and teams are just shutting down his ice, time and passing lanes. This is when a player needs to find a new gear, better decision making, and more determination -- to this point Johnny is not doing that.

I liked his play better when he and the rest of the first line were chipping and chasing but Johnny really fights against that strategy.

To this point Johnny is more like Cliff Ronning or Adam Oates --- not Martin St. Louis. To win a cup Calgary needs Johnny to be St. Louis.

 

[Sparky93]

Personally I think the Flames are good enough to get through round 2 which would mean very few moves.

Others mentioned changes that could be made and some were saying (wrongly in my opinion) who was safe and who was not in the negative scenario and I just clarified what the worst possible scenario would likely result in.

There are many players on this roster that will be judged by how well the team and they do in the post season. Frolik, Bennett, Backlund, and Stone all need to contribute to team success for their futures in Calgary to solidified. Frolik is definitely in the most precarious situation if he wants to remain a Flame. Backlund and Bennett just can't be the reason we lose and unless Stone somehow becomes a MVP of several series he is gone.

That said if they choke in the first round Tre will look at the core.

Frolik could literally be the MVP of the playoffs and he’d still be gone in the offseason. He’s 31, with a year remaining and he has 48 points over the last 2 seasons combined....not even taking into consideration that his agent was spouting off. He’s done. I’m sure we’d love to move Stone but there simply isn’t much of a market for a $3.5 million dollar, bottom pairing defenseman, that will be lucky to get 20 games in this year. The fact he’ll have only played about 120 games over the last 3 seasons won’t help much either. We have no 2nd, so I’d love to hear your plans for moving out that Stone contract.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Nolan Patrick & a pick, Konecney & 2 firsts, Johnny and a first for Point (Maybe... because Point's contract will be huge), depending on how interested Boston is maybe Debrusk.

Debrusk is meaningless. If Boston is interested, offer Pastrnak or no deal.

 

[viper0220]

Why are we having this discussion, when we are one of the top teams. Let's enjoy this.

 

[crazyfisherman]

Or are you over valuing him?

Because he has the same points as McDavid does that make him as good? Of course not.

Johnny has grown this year and I am more on the fence about him as ever but to this point he has not shown he is capable of being Martin St. Louis good in the playoffs. The last 3-4 weeks with the increased focus on defense has Johnny's turnover numbers going through the roof with many of those turnovers happening on the worst places on the ice. Johnny and the first line have gone cold because Johnny is insisting on using the same dangles he was using when the opposition wasn't focusing on defense. For Johnny to be effective he has to be the play-maker and teams are just shutting down his ice, time and passing lanes. This is when a player needs to find a new gear, better decision making, and more determination -- to this point Johnny is not doing that.

I liked his play better when he and the rest of the first line were chipping and chasing but Johnny really fights against that strategy.

To this point Johnny is more like Cliff Ronning or Adam Oates --- not Martin St. Louis. To win a cup Calgary needs Johnny to be St. Louis.

Uhh no, its the center that has been killing plays left right and center. Monhan has been absolutely useless lately, cant catch or make a pass, cant win board battles and isnt finishing like he usually is. Johnny still ok and getting some chances until Monahan botch whatever that is generated in the offensive zone. Teams are double team johnny right now and we need other forwards on his line to do something themselves rather than simply relying on him. St louis cant do anything either if hes the only player the other team have to worry about defending. When st louis scored all those points in the playoffs, he had vinny, richards, stamkos; JG doesnt have anyone close. The fact that jake Debrusk is mentioned as the main piece for a top 10 forward in the league is laughable

 

[crackdown44]

You don’t win a trade where you move out a player of Gaudreau’s caliber. Good luck finding a team who would want to move somebody out in a 1 for 1 who is close in talent

Tampa says no to Point, Boston says no to Pasta. Why would those teams move out top end guys who click with their best players?

More importantly, why would anybody here want to trade Gaudreau if he doesn’t express that he’s not interested in returning? Ridiculous

 

[Sparky93]

Uhh no, its the center that has been killing plays left right and center. Monhan has been absolutely useless lately, cant catch or make a pass, cant win board battles and isnt finishing like he usually is. Johnny still ok and getting some chances until Monahan botch whatever that is generated in the offensive zone. Teams are double team johnny right now and we need other forwards on his line to do something themselves rather than simply relying on him. St louis cant do anything either if hes the only player the other team have to worry about defending. When st louis scored all those points in the playoffs, he had vinny, richards, stamkos; JG doesnt have anyone close. The fact that jake Debrusk is mentioned as the main piece for a top 10 forward in the league is laughable

While I agree that Monahan is the week link on that line, I also think it would take a prolific upgrade, to ever break Johnny of his bad habits. His water bug style should be the last resort, not the go to. The exact same thing that brought us early season success, is now hurting us. The top line has become predictable, reminiscent of the mid-2000’s, pass to Iggy era. I don’t care who the player is, they’re easy to defend against if you know what’s coming. If you paint yourself into a corner and hold onto the puck too long, of course you’re going to be double teamed. The entire top line is based around playing with Johnny, as opposed to playing as a unit. It would take a hell of a centre to ever change that.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

How flames fans continue to undervalue gaudreau is beyond me.

Hey we have been first in the conference with one of the youngest teams in the league. Let’s rebuild our rebuild cause we hypothetically struggled against a good hockey team in our first of at least 4 years with a championship caliber team. Even though our prospect pool is pretty weak we should try and rebuild so in 5 years we will maybe have a team that contends for first place.

What a bunch of dumb asses

 

[Volica]

Let's get away from the ridiculousness of trading our best forward; you folks need to understand PDO and chance generation. Even with Johnny running cold, he's still getting 2-3 Grade A chances or setting them up a night. Eventually it'll bounce back. Look at what happened to Matt Tkachuk.

What are some realistic off-season targets for this team?

We know Brad's for sure going to do a couple things:

1) Re-sign Matthew Tkachuk
2) Move Michael Frolik

Those are the two givens IMO. Now the extra parts are probably (in no particular order):

1) Make a bit of room on defence, he'll likely aim to either move a vet, or move a bit of youth for an upgrade elsewhere.
2) Get another top 6 forward
3) Solidify goaltending

I think Calgary's still a consistent 1G and a top 6C/W away from being an annual cup threat; so getting folks opinions of what he'll do this summer?

 

[Mobiandi]

I think Treliving will be doing everything to push that deal for Zucker through in the summer.

I also think we target Hayes in free agency and move Jankowski for picks

 

[Kranix]

Nolan Patrick & a pick, Konecney & 2 firsts, Johnny and a first for Point (Maybe... because Point's contract will be huge), depending on how interested Boston is maybe Debrusk.

This isn't NHL 2007

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think Treliving will be doing everything to push that deal for Zucker through in the summer.

I also think we target Hayes in free agency and move Jankowski for picks

I think it'll depend highly on exactly why it fell through. If it was because Fenton botched it somehow (and it seems like it might be because Treliving was reportedly irate about it), I doubt Treliving is going to pay the same price he would've at the deadline.

 

[Sparky93]

Let's get away from the ridiculousness of trading our best forward; you folks need to understand PDO and chance generation. Even with Johnny running cold, he's still getting 2-3 Grade A chances or setting them up a night. Eventually it'll bounce back. Look at what happened to Matt Tkachuk.

What are some realistic off-season targets for this team?

We know Brad's for sure going to do a couple things:

1) Re-sign Matthew Tkachuk
2) Move Michael Frolik

Those are the two givens IMO. Now the extra parts are probably (in no particular order):

1) Make a bit of room on defence, he'll likely aim to either move a vet, or move a bit of youth for an upgrade elsewhere.
2) Get another top 6 forward
3) Solidify goaltending

I think Calgary's still a consistent 1G and a top 6C/W away from being an annual cup threat; so getting folks opinions of what he'll do this summer?

It’s really hard to say, at this point. So much hinges on the playoffs, especially goaltending. If they do well, I really wouldn’t be shocked to see both goaltenders back, for the same cap hit, just restructured a little more evenly. If they fail, we’ll be shopping and it could change a lot of plans.

There’s the obvious Zucker rumour and I’ve seen a few Lightning fans speculating that Miller might be the odd man out in Tampa. I think either of those guys would be pretty decent fits. Tampa will definitely need some young, cost controlled defensemen, so maybe something like Kylington + for Miller?

I think we’ll be making a spot for Dube next year. I’m not sure if it’ll be on the wing or at centre but I believe he’ll definitely be on the team. Depending on what Bennett’s contract demands are, Dube could be his replacement.

Finally, I can’t help but think we’ll be looking at a Valimaki-Stone 3rd pairing next year. Stone will be troublesome to move and I don’t think Treliving will put himself into a situation where one of Brodie or Hamonic may walk. Brodie could be the odd man out. If we can get a young RH defenseman, capable of replacing Stone after next year and some more currency for the deadline, it might be the best move, long term.

 

[Calculon]

Treliving probably goes after another winger but he should be going after top six centre to upgrade on Jankowski more than anything. If Monahan can't stay healthy or disappears every second half, they need another viable pivot to make sure the depth is there. Jankowski might become that down the road but they they may need the help sooner.

Someone like Zibanejad would be the dream but the more realistic option would probably be Hayes in free agency.

 

[Sparky93]

I think Treliving will be doing everything to push that deal for Zucker through in the summer.

I also think we target Hayes in free agency and move Jankowski for picks

Signing Hayes and acquiring Zucker would be close to $12 million, on top of the Tkachuk extension....I don’t see it happening. I don’t think Hayes is much of an upgrade on Backlund, if at all, and he’d probably have to go to even make it possible.