Speculation: Armchair GM Thread III: Post Deadline, Now with more armchairing

Status
Not open for further replies.

crackdown44

Cold milk cools down hot food
Dec 1, 2017
4,495
5,521
I think the main thing to take away from the Friedman report is that we were confident we could re-sign Stone.

If that's the case I think they should have pulled the trigger even with Valimaki in the deal. A signed Stone would massively upgrade the 2rw position. Unless Valimaki becomes a top 3D or better in which case standing pat will have been fine.


I hope next year we can add hometown boy Taylor Hall at the draft/TDL and get him re-signed.

I can’t remember who mentioned it on deadline day but Hall might be an option. We have the edge in futures on a lot of other contenders by not making big moves at the deadline

I have a sneaking suspicion he is going to look to get paid though come UFA
 

Rubi

Photographer
Jan 9, 2009
15,675
10,233
Treliving has signed 1 whole bad UFA deal (Brouwer) and the jury is still out on Neal since we brought him in for the playoffs more than anything. ANd if those are our worst contracts, we're doing better than 30 other teams.

Treliving UFA signings:

Neal (bad so far... and saying that we signed him for the playoffs is revisionist history trying to make the deal sound better than it currently looks.. but if that helps you sleep at night ... go with it)
Brouwer (what can I say that already hasn't been said)
Mason Raymond (useless and we ended up wasting money buying him out)
Setaguchi (why Tre ever signed him as a FA is beyond me)
Hiller (played good 1 year but was a disaster the next... people could hardly wait for his contract to end)
 
  • Like
Reactions: super6646

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
56,265
8,399
I forgot about Raymond, but even bringing up Setoguchi (1 year, 750k) as any form of evidence of anything reeks of desperation for you clinging onto something to complain about.
 

Rubi

Photographer
Jan 9, 2009
15,675
10,233
I forgot about Raymond, but even bringing up Setoguchi (1 year, 750k) as any form of evidence of anything reeks of desperation for you clinging onto something to complain about.
Just listing the bad ones. Didn't say it was a good example but it is one of his UFA signings. Just trying to be accurate.
 

Sparky93

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
7,004
1,041
Treliving UFA signings:

Neal (bad so far... and saying that we signed him for the playoffs is revisionist history trying to make the deal sound better than it currently looks.. but if that helps you sleep at night ... go with it)
Brouwer (what can I say that already hasn't been said)
Mason Raymond (useless and we ended up wasting money buying him out)
Setaguchi (why Tre ever signed him as a FA is beyond me)
Hiller (played good 1 year but was a disaster the next... people could hardly wait for his contract to end)
You could also add the Mike Stone UFA extension to the list, that’s been terrible too. Pretty undeniable that there’s been far more bad than good
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
56,265
8,399
Just listing the bad ones. Didn't say it was a good example but it is one of his UFA signings. Just trying to be accurate.
"trying to be accurate" and only cherry picks bad ones and reaches for one that can be buried in the NHL. Anyone trying to be accurate, would list every signing and let people decide for themselves rather than try to manipulate their opinions to fit your negative one.
 

Rubi

Photographer
Jan 9, 2009
15,675
10,233
"trying to be accurate" and only cherry picks bad ones and reaches for one that can be buried in the NHL. Anyone trying to be accurate, would list every signing and let people decide for themselves rather than try to manipulate their opinions to fit your negative one.
Look I'm not trying to crap on Treliving. If you read my "Thank you Flames" thread you know how I feel about Treliving. He's great. However, signing UFA's hasn't been his strong suit and he's had more strikeouts than home runs. Has he had a home run?
His greatest talent is trades and drafting. He should stick to that IMO and its just my IMO. Everyone is entitled to one and just because I don't believe that Treliving is perfect doesn't mean that I don't think he's the best GM in the league.... because I do.
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Treliving UFA signings:

Neal (bad so far... and saying that we signed him for the playoffs is revisionist history trying to make the deal sound better than it currently looks.. but if that helps you sleep at night ... go with it)
Brouwer (what can I say that already hasn't been said)
Mason Raymond (useless and we ended up wasting money buying him out)
Setaguchi (why Tre ever signed him as a FA is beyond me)
Hiller (played good 1 year but was a disaster the next... people could hardly wait for his contract to end)

Anything to fit the narrative you want to tell.

Mason Raymond put up 45 points as a 29 year old. Many teams were in on bidding on Mason's contract. He had speed, some offensive moxy and he was exactly what was needed for a rebuilding flames club. Nobody expected Johnny to take his spot so quickly and Raymond imploded as he slid down the line-up.

Setoguchi was 28 and BT took a flier on Devon hoping he had put his problems behind him. Devon was still young and there was great hope he would turn things around. You have to remember he had already had a 30 and 2 20 plus goal seasons.

Hiller earned a contract and imploded. Nobody has a crystal ball for that type of decline.

So you are left with Brouwer and while there was warning signs I think it was more of how the game was changing to being a game of speed. Troy simply could not keep up to the changes but the warning signs were there.

So BT signed 1 bad contact.

Neal has played in Calgary for 6 months and was brought in for playoff leadership. Has his point totals been less than ideal sure but unlike Brouwer Neal is pushing play and is not a drain on his line-mates. More importantly you are commenting before the full season story is told.

3 posts up I said it... Quit looking for the negative and enjoy watching the team that is in the midst of a 6 game winning streak and second overall in the NHL with a 7 point lead in the Western conference. I don't think we went through a 6 year rebuild to look forward to this. You never know we may win a cup...
 
  • Like
Reactions: DominikBokkFan

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,496
11,151
Might be prudent to start hiding Treliving's phone on July 1st and trade deadline day.

Disagree.
I don't see how this deadline hasn't provided us fans with more relief regarding the current management state of the Calgary Flames.

Brad Treliving didn't pull the trigger on a single deal that would mortgage the future in Calgary. He was in on deals, until the prices became too high and he balked at the demands. I honestly feel a lot more comfortable than ever with him at the helm of this team. The deal we were closest to completing was for Jason Zucker; at the cost of Frolik, who will be traded regardless and a pick (3,2,1, whatever it might be); in return we would have got likely the fastest guy to join our team who's also offensively an upgrade on Frolik, signed through the prime of his career. He'd be a 60 point forward playing with Tkachuk and Backlund and leading PP2.

While I agree his July 1 hasn't been masterful, I'd also suggest we wait to see how he approaches July 1 with a team that doesn't need much overhaul. We seem to forget, or overlook, that until this year the Calgary Flames were a fringe team at best in terms of the make-up of our organization. Brad was using July 1 as a time to try and actually peg in 'must-have' pieces versus tweaking the lineup. Like, we've never gone into July 1 having a 1RW, elite top 8D or any resemblance of depth. He's always tried to use July 1 to actually significantly bolster the club.

I'm actually excited how BT approaches the off-season, if we see that Zucker trade circle back around; or how FA goes... because for once we don't actually need anything significant.
 

Flames Fanatic

Mediocre
Aug 14, 2008
13,397
2,927
Cochrane
Might be prudent to start hiding Treliving's phone on July 1st and trade deadline day.

Pretty short sighted.

Has Tre been perfect? f*** no. But some of our young guys were drafted via picks that Brad got at the trade deadline. Some of the picks Brad picked up deadlines were part of the Hamilton deals. Czarnik and Ryan that have been a huge boon to our offense in February? July 1st signings. Michael Frolik who has been at worst a middle six guy his entire contract here? July 1st.

No GM in the entire NHL has a perfect TDL or July 1st record. Why we expect BT to is beyond me.
 

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
17,970
15,887
Calgary
Anything to fit the narrative you want to tell.

Mason Raymond put up 45 points as a 29 year old. Many teams were in on bidding on Mason's contract. He had speed, some offensive moxy and he was exactly what was needed for a rebuilding flames club. Nobody expected Johnny to take his spot so quickly and Raymond imploded as he slid down the line-up.

Setoguchi was 28 and BT took a flier on Devon hoping he had put his problems behind him. Devon was still young and there was great hope he would turn things around. You have to remember he had already had a 30 and 2 20 plus goal seasons.

Hiller earned a contract and imploded. Nobody has a crystal ball for that type of decline.

So you are left with Brouwer and while there was warning signs I think it was more of how the game was changing to being a game of speed. Troy simply could not keep up to the changes but the warning signs were there.

So BT signed 1 bad contact.

Neal has played in Calgary for 6 months and was brought in for playoff leadership. Has his point totals been less than ideal sure but unlike Brouwer Neal is pushing play and is not a drain on his line-mates. More importantly you are commenting before the full season story is told.

3 posts up I said it... Quit looking for the negative and enjoy watching the team that is in the midst of a 6 game winning streak and second overall in the NHL with a 7 point lead in the Western conference. I don't think we went through a 6 year rebuild to look forward to this. You never know we may win a cup...

Neal’s p/60 is that of a 4th liner. He’s getting outplayed by Austin Czarnik right now.

Guy was expected to play on the top line and put up 25 goals. He hasn’t, and his shot (the one asset he does have) looks like garbo. If he doesn’t find his shot back, we are probably screwed.
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
13,074
8,527
Treliving UFA signings:

Neal (bad so far... and saying that we signed him for the playoffs is revisionist history trying to make the deal sound better than it currently looks.. but if that helps you sleep at night ... go with it)
Brouwer (what can I say that already hasn't been said)
Mason Raymond (useless and we ended up wasting money buying him out)
Setaguchi (why Tre ever signed him as a FA is beyond me)
Hiller (played good 1 year but was a disaster the next... people could hardly wait for his contract to end)

Neal I think it's too early to judge.

Brouwer was brought in to be RW when our RW depth was abysmal. He was supposed to be a leader but apparently wasn't a good one at all so the team really didn't like him and Treliving to his credit took his first ticket off the Brouwer train.

Mason Raymond was Cammy's replacement. In that situation, Treliving's fault was underestimating his roster. But seriously, a rookie LW to take over the 1LW position? That's quite bold. Raymond's contract was one year too long though.

Setoguchi is one of two things. One, we had Hudler, McGrattan, Jones and Jooris as RW and I think Poirier was the only other RW. Our RW depth was abysmal. Any depth was better than no depth. Second, Setoguchi fell off the sobriety bandwagon. Read the article he penned. At his peak he was downing 2x 26 of Jamesons every day.

Hiller was good in his first season. His implosion was unprecedented as he was doing some of the worst SV% of the last decade before his departure. I also wondered if his vertigo flared up.


Even if none of those deals worked out, all of them were based on honest attempts to improve our roster.
 

Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
Might be prudent to start hiding Treliving's phone on July 1st and trade deadline day.
Not really sure why.

That trade with Boston (Hamilton) worked out just fine.

That trade with the Isles (Hamonic) worked out just fine, albeit dodged a bullet with the lack of lottery protection.

That trade with Carolina worked out just fine.

Doc was looking a bit sketchy at first, but has turned out to be decent.

Not making a deal with Ottawa for Stone appears to have worked out just fine.

Brouwer was less than ideal, and Neal appears to be trending that way, but perhaps those are the mistakes of a rookie GM? Perhaps lessons have been learned?
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
16,578
4,035
Error 503
Brad Treliving didn't pull the trigger on a single deal that would mortgage the future in Calgary.
See, we're going disagree a little on who exactly is important for the future, specifically Kylington but also maybe the first rounder.

My impression of the aftermath of the deadline was that Treliving seemed a little too eager, maybe even desperate to get a deal done but I fully recognize a lot of this is still uncorroborated, especially the stuff coming from Canucks reporters around Edler (Kylington being involved and the Flames wanting an extension).

I've long believed this current group needs a proper playoff evaluation before rushing to make changes so naturally, the amount of rumored deals seems bizarre to me. Others will feel different, I'm sure. But again, lots of misinformation and it's hard to know what's true and what's not. Flames media had the Zucker deal as Frolik+1st+something else substantial. That would have been terrible. On the other hand, Russo had it as Frolik plus a pick, which may have been a first or a second, which might not have been as bad, even if Zucker's cap hit is problematic going forward. There was the rumored Simmonds deal which fell apart after he wouldn't waive to come here. The Edler stuff, which ranges from the Flames inquired to the Flames blew Benning away with their offer but Edler wouldn't waive. The Stone deal, which entirely hinges on your valuation of Kylington (I think the whole deadline might).

A lot of people tend to sweep aside or outright ignore the deals a GM tries to make but fails to complete for one reason or the other, which I've never understood. Going back to Feaster (no, I'm not comparing that clown to Treliving) and his attempts with the offersheet, the Richards contract, going after Smyth, etc.), these things can matter. Would any of the rumored deals have crippled the Flames? No and no one's saying that. But they might not have been all that great either and it's okay to ponder that too.

And yeah, Treliving looks into everything but a lot of this stuff seemed to go a lot further than just inquiring. regardless of what he says, it really did seem like he really wanted to make some deals. But that's why the statement was qualified with a 'might'. My sentiment earlier was that if some of these rumors were true, then there's a good chance everyone looks back at them as 'the best deal was the one that never happened' type of thing and I stand by that.

Not really sure why.

That trade with Boston (Hamilton) worked out just fine.

That trade with the Isles (Hamonic) worked out just fine, albeit dodged a bullet with the lack of lottery protection.

That trade with Carolina worked out just fine.

Doc was looking a bit sketchy at first, but has turned out to be decent.

Not making a deal with Ottawa for Stone appears to have worked out just fine.

Brouwer was less than ideal, and Neal appears to be trending that way, but perhaps those are the mistakes of a rookie GM? Perhaps lessons have been learned?

Uh technically, not one of those trades happened on either the trade deadline or July 1st. They all happened on draft day, in which Treliving has been largely stellar in both trades and actually drafting.

His free agent signings seem to be hit or miss.
Pretty short sighted.

Has Tre been perfect? **** no. But some of our young guys were drafted via picks that Brad got at the trade deadline. Some of the picks Brad picked up deadlines were part of the Hamilton deals. Czarnik and Ryan that have been a huge boon to our offense in February? July 1st signings. Michael Frolik who has been at worst a middle six guy his entire contract here? July 1st.

No GM in the entire NHL has a perfect TDL or July 1st record. Why we expect BT to is beyond me.
Don't think anyone's expecting perfection. But that doesn't mean one can't point out the errors or disagreements. As was said, if lessons were learned, then all is well.
 

Rubi

Photographer
Jan 9, 2009
15,675
10,233
Just to change the subject, because I hate when family fight. I like our schedule from now till the end of the season.

18 games left and in those games the Flames play:

Coyotes
Devils
Rangers
Sens
Canucks
Kings
Ducks
Kings
Ducks
Oilers

Honorable mention:

Wild
Stars
 

Bjornar Moxnes

Registered User
Oct 16, 2016
11,610
4,091
Troms og Finnmark
Just to change the subject, because I hate when family fight. I like our schedule from now till the end of the season.

18 games left and in those games the Flames play:

Coyotes
Devils
Rangers
Sens
Canucks
Kings
Ducks
Kings
Ducks
Oilers

Honorable mention:

Wild
Stars

Anything less than 21-0-0 is unacceptable.
 

crackdown44

Cold milk cools down hot food
Dec 1, 2017
4,495
5,521
WE face Ducks twice and Oilers once, that means we must win twice in each game against both teams, otherwise unacceptable!

Last 4 games of the year are a California road trip followed by a game against Edmonton. No better way to exorcize the demons before the playoffs
 

Sparky93

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
7,004
1,041
I’m wondering if this rumoured Zucker deal may have involve goaltending. Most of Fenton’s deals have been centred around getting younger and saving cap space, while Treliving seems to be geared towards winning now. Regardless of what Treliving says, I have a hard time believing that he’ll be comfortable heading into next season with Rittich as the starter. He’s just far too unproven and still has a lot of questions marks around him. Now, Dubnyk is locked up, for 2 more years, to the same contract that Smith currently has. He’s a bonified, proven starter and if we sign a cheap backup, we’d solidify our goaltending, without increasing the cap. As far as the Wild are concerned, Rittich has had a strong season. He’s younger and cheaper. The fact that he’s unproven doesn’t mean as much to the Wild because they won’t be looking to compete, right now. I’m not sure how the rest of the pieces would shake out, probably depend on how high the Wild are on Rittich, but I think this is something that could make sense for both clubs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Snrub

Mr Snrub

I like the way Snrub thinks!
Oct 12, 2016
5,713
2,410
I’m wondering if this rumoured Zucker deal may have involve goaltending. Most of Fenton’s deals have been centred around getting younger and saving cap space, while Treliving seems to be geared towards winning now. Regardless of what Treliving says, I have a hard time believing that he’ll be comfortable heading into next season with Rittich as the starter. He’s just far too unproven and still has a lot of questions marks around him. Now, Dubnyk is locked up, for 2 more years, to the same contract that Smith currently has. He’s a bonified, proven starter and if we sign a cheap backup, we’d solidify our goaltending, without increasing the cap. As far as the Wild are concerned, Rittich has had a strong season. He’s younger and cheaper. The fact that he’s unproven doesn’t mean as much to the Wild because they won’t be looking to compete, right now. I’m not sure how the rest of the pieces would shake out, probably depend on how high the Wild are on Rittich, but I think this is something that could make sense for both clubs.

Feels like the Wild have been in a retool for a decade now. With Staal leaving his prime it might be time for them to dismantle that team, but I doubt Dubnyk goes for anything less than a premium, the guy is too good and too young not to demand a lot in trade.
 

Flames Fanatic

Mediocre
Aug 14, 2008
13,397
2,927
Cochrane
I’m wondering if this rumoured Zucker deal may have involve goaltending. Most of Fenton’s deals have been centred around getting younger and saving cap space, while Treliving seems to be geared towards winning now. Regardless of what Treliving says, I have a hard time believing that he’ll be comfortable heading into next season with Rittich as the starter. He’s just far too unproven and still has a lot of questions marks around him. Now, Dubnyk is locked up, for 2 more years, to the same contract that Smith currently has. He’s a bonified, proven starter and if we sign a cheap backup, we’d solidify our goaltending, without increasing the cap. As far as the Wild are concerned, Rittich has had a strong season. He’s younger and cheaper. The fact that he’s unproven doesn’t mean as much to the Wild because they won’t be looking to compete, right now. I’m not sure how the rest of the pieces would shake out, probably depend on how high the Wild are on Rittich, but I think this is something that could make sense for both clubs.

I don't think so. Friedman said just yesterday that it was likely Frolik with a 1st or 2nd (possibly a conditional 2nd that can become a first I would guess) for Zucker.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad