Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: I can't believe it's not butter, I can't believe we didn't get Ryan Hartman.

[Tkachuky]

I think my half ass attempts to bring in more scoring depth up front (from yesterday) are a better way to go. I don't think people realize how much of a cancer GG has been to this team. A new coach and added depth upfront could do wonders for us.

I sure hope so. Will be an interesting offseason.

 

[The Gnome]

I sure hope so. Will be an interesting offseason.

I think some patience is needed for sure.

Kids like Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Janko, Hamilton, Tkachuk, Lazar, are still learning and growing into consistent players. Hell, most of the guys listed are already our best players and most will likely see some form of progression in coming years. We need to add to this group, not subtract. Or if we do subtract (ex: trading Brodie), we need to be damn sure we get back a legit top 6 upgrade and not leave a massive hole on our back end. And that thought leads me back to trying to acquire one top 6 winger upgrade via FA. Maybe package Frolik with a d prospect to get another upgrade at forward. Look to trade Stone for a pick that could be flipped for a guy like J. Williams. These moves will not take away from our young talented core that is already in place, but still improve us quite a bit up front.

 

[Mobiandi]

If we could get a team to bite on something like Ferland + Fox for JT Miller, Ryan Spooner or Guatav Nyquist I'd be all over it.

I also think there's a deal to be done with the Jets too

 

[Mobiandi]

I do think Treliving will heavily pursue a trade for Hoffman again in the offseason and if it does happen then it's likely we see Brodie go the other way in a 1-for-1 swap

 

[wasunder]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but does anyone think we should try to sign Vanek? 41 points with Vancouver, 13 in 14 with CBJ, he's a right handed goal scoring winger which fits our team like a glove, and he would come much cheaper than a Tavares/Neal/JVR

 

[The Gnome]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but does anyone think we should try to sign Vanek? 41 points with Vancouver, 13 in 14 with CBJ, he's a right handed goal scoring winger which fits our team like a glove, and he would come much cheaper than a Tavares/Neal/JVR

Could be an option for sure, there will be plenty of FA options at wing. Hopefully we can land one at a decent cap hit/term and then push for minor trade options to fill in our depth woes.

 

[Calculon]

Based on everything Treliving has said and moreover actually done thus far, it would be very, very surprising if any of the top four defenceman are moved particularly in a one-for-one deal for a forward. It would go against his whole philosophy of building a team.

For a move like that to make sense, it would either have to be bigger, meaning another defenceman was coming back or post free agency where someone is signed. But the pickings a pretty slim there.

 

[viper0220]

As much as I hate to admit it, I just don't see us being a true contender with the core we have and the supporting cast. My point is that organizationally we are stronger on D at both NHL and Prospect level. This is a good thing but I think that the gap between our D and F is too big.

If Brodie+Gio both being dealt is extreme (which I have said from the beginning this was just an idea...), then deal Gio, break the bank on a Free Agent, bring in a new coach and hope your D prospects develop fast. By the time Fox/Vali/Kylington are NHL ready, Hamilton should be in his prime, our young Forwads have progressed to being productive in the NHL and the top 2 lines ( core of Johnny/Monny/Backlund/Chucky) continue to be as good as they are now if not better.

This to me would be the ideal scenario and should make us contenders in 2-3 years.


It seems that I am spinning my wheels... Frustrated fan... At the end of the day, hopeful our D prospects pan out at NHL level.

The core of this team is similar to Toronto. We have two very good wingers in Johnny and Tkachuk(the Leafs have Nylandder and Marner), we have good young center up front in Monahan(the Leafs have Matthews, Monahan is not good as good as Matthews), the Flames have a better defence(everyone knows who they are.)

What the Leafs have is they have better center depth than the Flames(everyone is hell bent on a winger but if we can land a good center, it will help more than a winger, on the trade deadline, Darryl Sutter did say that on Stanley Cup teams, Backlund and Frolik are third line players, if we can get another very good young center, we create another line, that can be the de facto second line pushing, Backlund and Frolik to the 3rd line.) The Leafs have better depth than the Flames(this is something where the Flames are way behind.) The place where the Leafs are most ahead of the Flames is coaching(this is a no brainer.)

As you can see that the Flames core is very similar to the Leafs, who are having a lot of success.

If we can get more depth upfront(a center), more depth in the bottom 6 and a good coach(very important), we will be a good team.

 

[Rangediddy]

Question for those roster specialists: what are our options for bring up players from Stockton to finish the season? Have we handcuffed ourselves with our roster spots that we don't have the room for a call-up, even an emergency one?

My limited knowledge of the rules says we need at least 12 forwards on the roster and even if we put Versteeg, Monahan and Tkachuk on IR, we'd still have 13 so wouldn't qualify for an emergency recall right?

I'd just like to see guys like Foo, Mangiapanne or Klimchuk get a look at the top 6 over guys like Brouwer, Stewart and Glass.

However, I do believe we have one more contract spot available for a Mr. Iginla...

 

[SmellOfVictory]

You are missing a key name on your list of guys for a first.

Sam Bennett

I know some people don't want to hear it, but the fact of the matter is, Bennett is approaching "bust" status after 3 years in the league and not ever improving on his rookie season. Whether of not people agree on Bennett, I think everyone with any common sense realizes it has to be reaching the point of no return with him. Either we hold onto him until he is what he is, or we cut bait and take what we can get. He will still hold some value and will likely still be able to land a 1st in the second half of the draft if dealt now, but if we don't move him and he has another tough year, his value may not even be a second rounder.

Now to be clear, before I am attacked by the Bennett apologists. I am not saying we should trade him, I am on the fence about it personally. I am simply saying at this point in time it needs to be a discussion amongst the management team as to whether or not we trade him for something while he still has value, or we stay the course.

He's honestly the first guy I'd trade for a 1st round pick, based on the assumption that he still has decent (mid-1st) value around the league and I have minimal faith he'll ever graduate beyond a middle six kind of winger.

 

[Baxterman]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but does anyone think we should try to sign Vanek? 41 points with Vancouver, 13 in 14 with CBJ, he's a right handed goal scoring winger which fits our team like a glove, and he would come much cheaper than a Tavares/Neal/JVR

I have zero desire to sign him. He is old, slow, offers nothing but offense and even then is very hit and miss with how he provides that.

He has shown in the past that is more than willing to quit when things aren't going great and there is much reason to think that things are going to be rosy next year.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Question for those roster specialists: what are our options for bring up players from Stockton to finish the season? Have we handcuffed ourselves with our roster spots that we don't have the room for a call-up, even an emergency one?

My limited knowledge of the rules says we need at least 12 forwards on the roster and even if we put Versteeg, Monahan and Tkachuk on IR, we'd still have 13 so wouldn't qualify for an emergency recall right?

I'd just like to see guys like Foo, Mangiapanne or Klimchuk get a look at the top 6 over guys like Brouwer, Stewart and Glass.

However, I do believe we have one more contract spot available for a Mr. Iginla...

We have one more post-deadline call-up remaining. And yeah, emergency recalls only count as such when you have less than 12 forwards, 6 defensemen or 2 goalies healthy on your NHL roster.

Mangiapane is injured right now, so he's ineligible for a recall, and I doubt they call up Klimchuk or Foo as Stockton's in the midst of their push for playoffs right now and each guy is a key player on that team. I'm honestly surprised they called up Andersson and haven't just been skating Bartkowski, as sick as that makes me.

He's honestly the first guy I'd trade for a 1st round pick, based on the assumption that he still has decent (mid-1st) value around the league and I have minimal faith he'll ever graduate beyond a middle six kind of winger.

Doubt Bennett is still worth a first to very many GMs. Last year there was still a chance he could become a high-end player, I'd say by now that chance is all but gone. If we could use him to recoup one of our seconds or move him in a quantity for quality deal, I'd likely bite.

 

[Rangediddy]

We have one more post-deadline call-up remaining. And yeah, emergency recalls only count as such when you have less than 12 forwards, 6 defensemen or 2 goalies healthy on your NHL roster.

Mangiapane is injured right now, so he's ineligible for a recall, and I doubt they call up Klimchuk or Foo as Stockton's in the midst of their push for playoffs right now and each guy is a key player on that team. I'm honestly surprised they called up Andersson and haven't just been skating Bartkowski, as sick as that makes me.

They're like 12 points back with 8 or 9 games left. It's hardly a playoff "push" at this point. If we do have 1 call up left, it'd like to see Foo on Jankowski's wing.

 

[Mobiandi]

The consensus on this board appears to be more depth scoring, which is something I agree with. However, why are we entertaining moving Sam Bennett for a magic bean that might help us a few years down the line or not all? The chances a pick like that quickly becomes the next Barzal is next to nothing, especially here of all places.

Yes, he hasn't lived up to his draft hype but he's been our best depth forward in the bottom 6 by far and is still cost-controlled on his bridge contract. Is it not worth seeing how he performs under a different system perhaps with some better linemates?

We've opened up a window for contention for ourselves. Draft picks serve to extend this expected competitive period by making sure we have prospects that can make players expendable if they make too much. Our first is gone and it's now Travis Hamonic. Trading away tangible offense for a hope and a prayer will only prolong our mediocrity rather than push us into contender status.

I'm convinced that Friedman rumour is BS. Treliving would have to be quite stupid to recover a pick rather than pursue a NHL-ready upgrade.

 

[CamPopplestone]

Vanek is a tire fire defensively, but I'd give him a shot on a one year deal. Stick him with Backlund and Matt, they can cover for his lapses and he can pot some goals. Would let us try moving Frolik to the third line with Bennett and Jankowski.

If it fails miserably we waive him

 

[The Gnome]

Again, I think with Bennett, the best route is just patience. He still has a solid shot at turning into a useful middle 6 player. Also consider that he's cost controlled and in no way is an anchor to our cap situation. As others have already said, his return at this point is probably not a 1st, and even then, that middle to lower 1st round pick is a dart throw at best. So just keep him, unless he can be packaged for a true top 6 upgrade at RW.

I'm no Bennett apologist, I just think this is the most logical way to view him. And I still think at 21, he has a lot of upside.

 

[Rangediddy]

Again, I think with Bennett, the best route is just patience. He still has a solid shot at turning into a useful middle 6 player. Also consider that he's cost controlled and in no way is an anchor to our cap situation. As others have already said, his return at this point is probably not a 1st, and even then, that middle to lower 1st round pick is a dart throw at best. So just keep him, unless he can be packaged for a true top 6 upgrade at RW.

I'm no Bennett apologist, I just think this is the most logical way to view him. And I still think at 21, he has a lot of upside.

This. We have him for another year for less than $2m. Let's just say he doesn't progress and has the same season as he did this year. Is his value even that much lower than it is now? He'd just be a 22 year old project rather than a 21 year old one.

He has similar offense output as Ryan Hartman, who everyone is bummed we didn't get, yet we're wanting to get rid of Bennett? Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Calculon]

If Vanek is Versteeg's replacement, that's fine. But for a team that already lacks urgency, Vanek is only compounding the problem. Regardless, anything more than a PTO would be a mistake. See what the prospects in training camp can do; if they're not ready then sign the vet as a stop gap. Just like what happened with Versteeg.

Treliving definitely wants a first round pick. But unless something's changed, I also doubt he's desperate for one; it's just not his style. There's a big difference between wanting something and wanting it all costs and that's a concept that definitely not appreciated on the trade boards. It's much like how he obviously wanted offensive upgrades at the deadline but at the same time, wasn't willing to part with Bennett or the 2019 first or top prospects like Andersson/Valimaki to facilitate a deal. A deal has to make sense for both current needs and future concerns, for both teams, with the cap now and moving forwards, etc. There's a reason trades are so hard to make nowadays.

This. We have him for another year for less than $2m. Let's just say he doesn't progress and has the same season as he did this year. Is his value even that much lower than it is now? He'd just be a 22 year old project rather than a 21 year old one.

He has similar offense output as Ryan Hartman, who everyone is bummed we didn't get, yet we're wanting to get rid of Bennett? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Expectations are a funny thing. If Bennett had been a 2nd or late round pick, most people wouldn't be at all concerned about his current progression. They'd be quite happy with him if anything. But because he was drafted 4th overall and didn't immediately turn into an impact player, he now needs to be moved at all costs. It's weird, some folks just can't seem to manage their expectations very well.

 

[InfinityIggy]

This. We have him for another year for less than $2m. Let's just say he doesn't progress and has the same season as he did this year. Is his value even that much lower than it is now? He'd just be a 22 year old project rather than a 21 year old one.

He has similar offense output as Ryan Hartman, who everyone is bummed we didn't get, yet we're wanting to get rid of Bennett? Doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't disagree with the gist of your comment but Hartman has played at a 0.43ppg pace this season. Compared to Bennett's 0.34ppg pace.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Based on everything Treliving has said and moreover actually done thus far, it would be very, very surprising if any of the top four defenceman are moved particularly in a one-for-one deal for a forward. It would go against his whole philosophy of building a team.

For a move like that to make sense, it would either have to be bigger, meaning another defenceman was coming back or post free agency where someone is signed. But the pickings a pretty slim there.

No disrespect but IMO Trev's whole philosophy is in shambles right now with this collapse to miss the playoffs and no draft picks when we're in the lottery.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

A penguins fan on the main boards offered Sprong + their 1st for Brodie, so maybe there is hope yet. That would be a delicious trade.

They have no 1st this season.

 

[Rangediddy]

I don't disagree with the gist of your comment but Hartman has played at a 0.43ppg pace this season. Compared to Bennett's 0.34ppg pace.

That's not enough of a difference to explain the 'Wanting Hartman' vs. 'Trade Bennett' camps. The desire to trade Bennett is just frustration that our 4th OA pick hasn't lit the league on fire. He'll always be better than Griffen Reinhart!

 

[The Gnome]

Expectations are a funny thing. If Bennett had been a 2nd or late round pick, most people wouldn't be at all concerned about his current progression. They'd be quite happy with him if anything. But because he was drafted 4th overall and didn't immediately turn into an impact player, he now needs to be moved at all costs. It's weird, some folks just can't seem to manage their expectations very well.

pretty much, I just don't understand how so many are ready to write him off at 21. Just keep him, he's already an NHL player at this point, and logic would dictate he'll only get better. He's definitely a disappointment for the highest draft pick this franchise has ever had. But taking out the draft position and he looks to be on a very normal development path compared to most 21 year old NHL players.

 

[Dack]

My fun scenario is that the scouts are super high on someone ranked in the latter half of the first round and are trying to get in there to pick him.

 

[Calculon]

No disrespect but IMO Trev's whole philosophy is in shambles right now with this collapse to miss the playoffs and no draft picks when we're in the lottery.

I really don't mind most of the roster when healthy so the only real failing, for me anyway, is coaching. Add a competent coach who can get more out of the defence and the third line, one top six forward via free agency and watch them most probably take off.

But regardless, Treliving's approach may not have worked thus far but I'm not sure why so many fans think he's suddenly going to abandon everything he believes in and start doing the complete opposite because of a late season collapse. It's usually the other way round with management doubling down and sticking to their guns. Way too many are projecting their own frustrations and desperation onto management without ever actually paying attention to the things they say or do.

There's definitely a bit of an echo chamber going on especially with the notion that a top four defenceman (Brodie) will most assuredly be moved. I mean, it's not impossible, but it would literally go against everything he's said and done thus far. Given the track record, it's far more likely he leaves the top four intact along with the top defensive prospects and moves other pieces to obtain that top-six forward. Or simply throws a bunch of money and term at Neal/JVR/Perron/Kane.

I've said this a bunch of times but Treliving isn't Darryl Sutter. Seriously, did Dutter ever do a number on Flames fans' psyche with his lateral trades, constant flip flopping between offensive and defensive styles, full on reactive approach with zero planning for the future, etc. Few if any GM's are like that nowadays.