Proposal: Arizona-Vancouver

[DesertDawg]

As a Coyote-homer fan I'm expecting 23 yo Murphy to have a great year and look like a top pairing d-man. In perspective, 3 years ago, 26 yo Tanev started his 1st full NHL year. So like my fellow Coyote fans, I don't see how Tanev (and his soon-to-be $5mil salary) has that much if any more value to their respective franchises than Murphy, but we'll see after Murphy's re-signing and year.

 

[Palmer2Fitz]

As a Coyote-homer fan I'm expecting 23 yo Murphy to have a great year and look like a top pairing d-man. In perspective, 3 years ago, 26 yo Tanev started his 1st full NHL year. So like my fellow Coyote fans, I don't see how Tanev (and his soon-to-be $5mil salary) has that much if any more value to their respective franchises than Murphy, but we'll see after Murphy's re-signing and year.

Exactly. No doubt Tanev is the better player now but Murphy is better now then Tanev was at his age. Murphy could very well end up better then Tanev in 3 years, with much better point production. I can't fault Canuck fans for saying no to this deal but I also want no part of this as a coyotes fan. Murphy is also 6-4 and 210 pounds and still growing compared to Tanev at 6-2 190. We will gladly keep Murphy and our two former 1st round picks in the last 2-3 years

 

[nuckfan insk]

Isn't Tanev beloved in the analytic world ?

Tanev is much better then larsson.
That package wouldn't get you hall
No thanks from the Canucks

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Exactly. No doubt Tanev is the better player now but Murphy is better now then Tanev was at his age. Murphy could very well end up better then Tanev in 3 years, with much better point production. I can't fault Canuck fans for saying no to this deal but I also want no part of this as a coyotes fan. Murphy is also 6-4 and 210 pounds and still growing compared to Tanev at 6-2 190. We will gladly keep Murphy and our two former 1st round picks in the last 2-3 years

This is a ****** terrible post or line of thinking We're talking about a proven young top pairing shutdown defensman. Are you're saying you wouldn't move a prospect dman who could if he's lucky become even close to what Tanev is. Do you have any idea how ****** scary an OEL-Tanev pairing would be? Filthy.

 

[PG Canuck]

Zero interest in this.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

26 isn't that old but it is older than 23. Why would a rebuilding team make that trade? When teams are rebuilding they don't give up young assets to get older. Especially when they don't have many young players at that position and when the player they're giving up has a real chance of being better by the time he is that age.

If that doesn't make sense, then can you tell me why the Coyotes would make this trade??

That's honestly the stupidest thing I've heard. 26 is older than 23...by 3 ****ing years. If you're telling me Murphy has a shot at becoming a #1, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Coyotes make this trade because Tanev is much better than Murphy, and the other pieces are quite underwhelming and have been disappointing thus far and don't make up anywhere near the difference between Murphy and Tanev.

 

[PancakeHero]

Arizona adds Domi then maybe.

Tanev is way beyond Murphy.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

As a Coyote-homer fan I'm expecting 23 yo Murphy to have a great year and look like a top pairing d-man. In perspective, 3 years ago, 26 yo Tanev started his 1st full NHL year. So like my fellow Coyote fans, I don't see how Tanev (and his soon-to-be $5mil salary) has that much if any more value to their respective franchises than Murphy, but we'll see after Murphy's re-signing and year.

hahahaha OMG this is ridiculous, Murphy might key word MIGHT be as good as Tanev, your betting on a lottery ticket to be as good as a proven commodity, it's not like this lottery ticket is a blue chipper either come on dude.

If we were to ever make this trade it starts with Domi from the Yotes end. 26 year old top pairing RHD Dmen do not come cheap. Especially not for 3 lottery picks.

 

[bossram]

Huge no from the Coyotes. There isn't a huge gap between Murphy and Tanev currently and Murphy is a lot younger with potential.

Perlini is arguably the Coyotes third best prospect. 2 years younger than Gaunce, drafted higher. There's no reason to move him for Gaunce.

And Merkley is just a gift for the Canucks.

Coyotes don't benefit at all from this.

This post is patently false all around.

Tanev is quite literally one of the absolute best defensive defenseman in the NHL. Every defensive impact metric lists him near the top of the league. He and Murphy are not close. And Tanev is still 26. Young enough to fit in with the Coyotes, certainly if Ekman-Larsson, Gogo and Mike Stone are. Also, though Murphy is and will likely be better than Tanev in terms of production, I don't see this "greater potential" for Murphy as I don't see him ever surpassing Tanev defensively. Tanev has been doing this since he came into the league.

Perlini has stagnated as a prospect in Junior. My viewings were not impressive of him. I like Merkely, but it's not enough.

Essentially to move Tanev, it would have to be something like Strome or Domi involved.

 

[Seventy7]

I dont think a deal will come together for Tanev unless theres a considerable overpayment. Also dont think he'd be moved for a package of lesser assets.


If Chris Tanev get traded, itll be for a top 4 offensive D, or for a legit top 6 winger... likely LW. The Canucks admitted to be kicking tires on Subban... who do you thinks name was coming up in the return package... It would have had to be Tanev++ (which imo would have been a far better return than Weber).... So certainly the Canucks would be willing to move him if the right opportunity is there.... meaning a better quality player is coming back to Vancouver. If not, dont waste your time on throwing packages of prospects out there for his services. Hes still young for a D and is a very important piece for the Canucks and will only be used in a deal where a specific upgrade to the team is evident.

 

[DomiToDuclair]

Murphy is only 23 and we have absolutely zero reason to give up on him at this point. He has already looked like our 2nd best defenseman and if he keeps making strides in his game could certainly become a good top pairing defenseman.

While right now the package is pretty fair value assuming all of these players work out to their potential, if that were the case we would regret this deal down the road. No reason for ARI to make that bet when we can afford to stay with our current roster and give Murphy the time to grow and see what Perlini and Merkely become.

We're perfectly comfortable having a #1 in OEL, a #3/4 in Murphy (who sometimes plays like a #2), a #2/3 in Goligoski and a good #4 in Stone.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Murphy is only 23 and we have absolutely zero reason to give up on him at this point. He has already looked like our 2nd best defenseman and if he keeps making strides in his game could certainly become a good top pairing defenseman.

While right now the package is pretty fair value assuming all of these players work out to their potential, if that were the case we would regret this deal down the road. No reason for ARI to make that bet when we can afford to stay with our current roster and give Murphy the time to grow and see what Perlini and Merkely become.

We're perfectly comfortable having a #1 in OEL, a #3/4 in Murphy (who sometimes plays like a #2), a #2/3 in Goligoski and a good #4 in Stone.

Exactly, no reason for either team to make this trade.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

hahahaha OMG this is ridiculous, Murphy might key word MIGHT be as good as Tanev, your betting on a lottery ticket to be as good as a proven commodity, it's not like this lottery ticket is a blue chipper either come on dude.

If we were to ever make this trade it starts with Domi from the Yotes end. 26 year old top pairing RHD Dmen do not come cheap. Especially not for 3 lottery picks.

Yes exactly, might.. Do you not think players develop and get better??
Murphy is already a top 4 guy, only player 2 full NHL seasons, has been improving and does well with OEL.


And it isn't a one for one trade. It isn't just Murphy for Tanev. Perlini and Merkley (former first rounders) are involved too. Now I know this is probably a strange idea in Bennings Vancouver, but prospects are very valuable to teams building to be successful ones!


And seriously DOMI? There isn't a single player on the Canucks that comes close to him. This season it is quite likely he will have more points than any Canuck....And he's only in his second season. What's next you gonna propose OEL for the Sedins?

 

[Black Noise]

Yes exactly, might.. Do you not think players develop and get better??
Murphy is already a top 4 guy, only player 2 full NHL seasons, has been improving and does well with OEL.


And it isn't a one for one trade. It isn't just Murphy for Tanev. Perlini and Merkley (former first rounders) are involved too. Now I know this is probably a strange idea in Bennings Vancouver, but prospects are very valuable to teams building to be successful ones!


And seriously DOMI? There isn't a single player on the Canucks that comes close to him. This season it is quite likely he will have more points than any Canuck....And he's only in his second season. What's next you gonna propose OEL for the Sedins?

Muprhy's numbers aren't that good when he didn't play with OEL.

44.8 CF% without OEL and 48 CF% with (5v5)
61.26 CA60 without OEL and 57.19 CA60 with (5v5)

Murphy also had a high PDO last year at 101.9. Up from 97.4 the year before. There's a chance he regresses next year due to his PDO balancing out. Not all players consistently get better.

Stop bringing up "former first rounders". Perlini has performed like a 4th rounder and Merkley was picked 30th and regressed. Them being "former first rounders" does nothing.

Tanev for Domi isn't as far fetched as you think. Tanev is very comparable to Larsson (probably better than Larsson) and he got Hall. Now, I'm not saying Arizona should do that, but if the Canucks were to trade Tanev, Domi would have to be coming back.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Muprhy's numbers aren't that good when he didn't play with OEL.

44.8 CF% without OEL and 48 CF% with
61.26 CA60 without OEL and 57.19 CA60 with

Murphy also had a high PDO last year at 101.9. Up from 97.4 the year before. There's a chance he regresses next year due to his PDO balancing out. Not all players consistently get better.

Stop bringing up "former first rounders". Perlini has performed like a 4th rounder and Merkley was picked 30th and regressed. Them being "former first rounders" does nothing.

Tanev for Domi isn't as far fetched as you think. Tanev is very comparable to Larsson (probably better than Larsson) and he got Hall. Now, I'm not saying Arizona should do that, but if the Canucks were to trade Tanev, Domi would have to be coming back.

And Horvat is basically a third rounder, Gaunce is a 4th, Virtanen is a 5th.....

And I think I get it now. All Coyotes players are mediocre at best and you don't want them. Move on. Coyotes fans don't want this trade either.

 

[Black Noise]

And Horvat is basically a third rounder, Gaunce is a 4th, Virtanen is a 5th.....

And I think I get it now. All Coyotes players are mediocre at best and you don't want them. Move on. Coyotes fans don't want this trade either.

Wow that makes a lot of sense.

Perlini put up 45 points in 57 games in his draft +2 year. Him being a former first rounder means nothing. That was the point I was making.

Your points make no sense because Horvat put up 40 points in the NHL, Gaunce put up 0.8PPG in the AHL and Virtanen is in the NHL.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Wow that makes a lot of sense.

Perlini put up 45 points in 57 games in his draft +2 year. Him being a former first rounder means nothing. That was the point I was making.

Your points make no sense because Horvat put up 40 points in the NHL, Gaunce put up 0.8PPG in the AHL and Virtanen is in the NHL.

Only 40 points though, that's not first round material. Gaunce isn't even in the NHL! Virtanen is a 3rd liner, did bad at WJs. Basically the equivalent of a 5th rounder.


In all honestly all I'm doing is pointing out how poor your logic is.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

And Horvat is basically a third rounder, Gaunce is a 4th, Virtanen is a 5th.....

And I think I get it now. All Coyotes players are mediocre at best and you don't want them. Move on. Coyotes fans don't want this trade either.

This is quite the non sequitur...

All of those players out performed Perlini in their draft +1 seasons.

Two are NHLers and one just outpaced his OHL stats in the AHL.

Talk about a knife in a gun fight...

EDIT: Draft + 2 season.

 

[Black Noise]

Only 40 points though, that's not first round material. Gaunce isn't even in the NHL! Virtanen is a 3rd liner, did bad at WJs. Basically the equivalent of a 5th rounder.


In all honestly all I'm doing is pointing out how poor your logic is.

What in the world...

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Perlini being drafted in the 1st round doesn't effect what he is worth since he has preformed so poorly since being drafted.

Should Dvorak's value be less than Perlini's because Perlini was a first rounder and Dvorak was a 2nd rounder?

Dvorak has more value because he's better. Draft position means nothing 2-3 years after you are drafted.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

What in the world...

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Perlini being drafted in the 1st round doesn't effect what he is worth since he has preformed so poorly since being drafted.

Should Dvorak's value be less than Perlini's because Perlini was a first rounder and Dvorak was a 2nd rounder?

Dvorak has more value because he's better. Draft position means nothing 2-3 years after you are drafted.

No I'm pretty sure I get what you're saying. Because Perlini struggled last year, you don't think he's worth much at all. Sounds like you think he's worth a fourth?

You must also think then Virtanen is worth just a bit less then... Did worse while on the same WJ team...

You don't seem to understand the idea of potential at all.

 

[Black Noise]

No I'm pretty sure I get what you're saying. Because Perlini struggled last year, you don't think he's worth much at all. Sounds like you think he's worth a fourth?

You must also think then Virtanen is worth just a bit less then... Did worse while on the same WJ team...

You don't seem to understand the idea of potential at all.

I understand what potential is. Perlini isn't showing much of it. Name the last players that regressed as much as Perlini in his +2 draft year then went on to have a successful career.

Perlini had 0 points in 5 games on that WJ team. I don't think the WJC is a good way to judge talent but your point makes no sense as Virtanen had more points.

Perlini has little potential. How can you expect him to succeed at the NHL level when he is having problems in the OHL as a 19 year old?

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I understand what potential is. Perlini isn't showing much of it. Name the last players that regressed as much as Perlini in his +2 draft year then went on to have a successful career.

Perlini had 0 points in 5 games on that WJ team. I don't think the WJC is a good way to judge talent but your point makes no sense as Virtanen had more points.

Perlini has little potential. How can you expect him to succeed at the NHL level when he is having problems in the OHL as a 19 year old?

I don't think so. You seem to think Murphy is done improving, Perlini isn't gonna get much better. Bust material.

And you must think Virtanen is pretty worthless too right? Like you aren't blindly biased now are you?

 

[Black Noise]

I don't think so. You seem to think Murphy is done improving, Perlini isn't gonna get much better. Bust material.

And you must think Virtanen is pretty worthless too right? Like you aren't blindly biased now are you?

Murphy can get better for sure, I see him as a Top 4 defenceman as his peak, pretty much what he is now. Sure you can't bank on him getting better but just because he gets older doesn't mean they he's gonna get better.

I don't think Virtanen is all that good, but he's proven he can be a useful Bottom 6 player. We can hope he becomes a Top 6 forward but it reality it most likely won't happen. Virtanen doesn't have the value of a 6th overall pick. He showed well in the NHL though. I don't see why any other team would view him more than a 3rd liner. Sure he has "potential" but he hasn't shown on any level that he can really dominate. Same goes for Perlini. Virtanen has just shown more up to this point. That's why Virtanen has more value than Perlini.

 

[XX]

OP's proposal is an easy pass from Arizona. No need to slug it out over why.

 

[Breakers]

Huge no from the Coyotes. There isn't a huge gap between Murphy and Tanev currently and Murphy is a lot younger with potential.

Perlini is arguably the Coyotes third best prospect. 2 years younger than Gaunce, drafted higher. There's no reason to move him for Gaunce.

And Merkley is just a gift for the Canucks.

Coyotes don't benefit at all from this.

Umm there is a big gap.

And Perlini isn't even their 5th best prospect.

Chychrun > Perlini
Keller > Perlini
Strome > Perlini
Dvorak > Perlini