Confirmed Buy-Out [ARI] Antoine Vermette

Status
Not open for further replies.

Off Sides

Registered User
Sep 8, 2008
9,755
5,585
It was reported he was waived on August 1st, and cleared on August 2nd. The buyout paperwork would have all been filed on August 1st or the day before, but the transaction only becomes final once the player clears waivers.

I guess it's semantics, or perhaps he was waived and the report came out a day late, possibly but all I see...

Aug 1, 2016 17:18
The Arizona Coyotes have placed veteran forward Antoine Vermette on waivers with the intention of buying out his contract, reports Elliotte Friedman of Sportsnet.ca.
http://thecomeback.com/puckdrunklove/2016-articles/coyotes-unexpectedly-waive-antoine-vermette.html


Aug 1, 2016
The Arizona Coyotes placed veteran center Antoine Vermette on unconditional waivers Monday and will buy out the remaining $3.75 million on his contract.
http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/17193612/coyotes-place-antoine-vermette-buyout-waivers

Monday, August 1, 2016
Arizona Coyotes General Manager John Chayka announced today that the Coyotes have bought out the final year of center Antoine Vermette’s contract. Following the buyout, Vermette is now an unrestricted free agent and can sign with any NHL team.
http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=890374

I am not sure how that would work unless he was either put on waivers July 31st and no one reported it, or the Yotes decided to say it was an official buyout while he was still on waivers, which would seem super odd.
 

mouser

Business of Hockey
Jul 13, 2006
29,407
12,825
South Mountain
I am not sure how that would work unless he was either put on waivers July 31st and no one reported it, or the Yotes decided to say it was an official buyout while he was still on waivers, which would seem super odd.

Tim Wharnsby of CBC reported Vermette cleared waivers on August 2nd:
 

Off Sides

Registered User
Sep 8, 2008
9,755
5,585
Tim Wharnsby of CBC reported Vermette cleared waivers on August 2nd:


Okay, so apparently the announcement of the buyout must have been made while he was still on waivers, and they just knew no one was going to pick him up so they went ahead with saying is was official instead of saying they will buy him out once/if he clears?

Not that it really matters, just seems strange.
 

vipernsx

Flatus Expeller
Sep 4, 2005
6,791
3
Vermette's defensive prowess has been on a steady decline. He has to beat out two kids that are faster and just flat out better than him, then he has to beat out Hanzal (nope) and Richardson for a center spot. Richardson is a similar player for much cheaper. The depth has caught up enough to where there's no place for 'good guys' to hang around on the roster. You can't play a regular role, you don't play under Dave Tippett.

He's still very good at faceoffs and a great guy in the room. He can go sign with a contender on the cheap, make his buyout money, chase a cup, have a good time.

Coyotes free up a center spot for Dvorak. Richardson can also switch to the wing if Tyler Gaudet or Laurent Dauphin makes the team.

Strome
Dvorak
Hanzal
Richardson

Strome & Dvorak are seriously top notch prospects but I just don't agree with the idea of asking kids to step into topline center roles. It's bad for their development. The NHL is not a development league.
 

Paul4587

Registered User
Jan 26, 2006
31,171
13,190
I'm behind the times but I still don't get why you buy out at worst a 3C when you need forwards as it is?
 

hbk

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
23,098
9,776
Visit site
I'm behind the times but I still don't get why you buy out at worst a 3C when you need forwards as it is?

Declining pay. Expensive for role. Cheaper kids ready to play. Needed to clear C spots for Strome and/Dvorak.
 

Kaibur

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
3,487
681
Phoenix, AZ
Declining pay. Expensive for role. Cheaper kids ready to play. Needed to clear C spots for Strome and/Dvorak.

That strategy assumes Strome and Dvorak are ready to play 82 games each at center in the NHL straight out of junior. When was the last time a team successfully integrated 2 rookie centers with 0 games of NHL experience?
 

bohlmeister

...................
May 18, 2007
17,854
456
That strategy assumes Strome and Dvorak are ready to play 82 games each at center in the NHL straight out of junior. When was the last time a team successfully integrated 2 rookie centers with 0 games of NHL experience?

Avs did with Duchene and ROR. Had a great season and made the playoffs.
 

hbk

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
23,098
9,776
Visit site
That strategy assumes Strome and Dvorak are ready to play 82 games each at center in the NHL straight out of junior. When was the last time a team successfully integrated 2 rookie centers with 0 games of NHL experience?

And assumes a healthy Hanzel.

That being said AZ is very very high on Dvorak and the strength of his two way game. Gaudet and Dauphin are nearing ready as well so that 3rd line C role could be filled internally. Vermette was in the way if AZ wants to give guys a shot this year.
 
Last edited:

Palmer2Fitz

Registered User
Oct 2, 2015
346
0
Why? Get the pay out and sign where you want. Probably will make more money that way and either way will at least be able to choose where.

Well I figured he wouldn't get any more then a 1 year 1.5 mill prove it contract so that along with the buyout money would be less then 3.75 mill he would make if claimed. Obviously that's just speculation on my part plus I'm not sure what the buyout figures are.
 

The Feckless Puck

Registered Loser
Sponsor
Oct 26, 2006
18,684
11,810
im sooooooooo glad my team isnt doing crap like this while asking for my support

The long and short of it is that trading for Datsyuk's contract freed up a roster spot (Vitale), and buying out Vermette freed up another. That's it. We have guys in the system that the owners and GM/coach want to have on the ice and now they have two more slots to do it.
 

Duck Off

HF needs an App
Oct 25, 2002
20,909
5,287
Oklahoma
well.. why acquire Datsyuks contract?

datsyuk retired... retired players dont get paid but do count for the cap floor

pheonix buys out a real player that might help and replaces him with a name on paper and saves a couple million dollars

im sooooooooo glad my team isnt doing crap like this while asking for my support

As a fan of a budget team, I somewhat know how Coyotes fans feel (although we don't feel the financial restraints near as much as they do), but can we not turn this into a bash Arizona thread?

I'm also glad my team doesn't go to these measures but no reason to derail the thread.

As for the move itself. I guess it depends on why it happened. If it's a cost cutting move, well honestly, that's pathetic considering how different their salary and caps numbers are already. If it's to let younger guys play, I somewhat understand. I don't agree with that, but I get it. I am surprised they didn't trade him. If they couldn't trade him now, they probably could have at the deadline.

Odd move really.
 

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,446
9,973
I'm really surprised he cleared, would've made an excellent stop gap 3C for the Kings.

No one wants him for $3.75M. It's not really surprising. A lot of teams would like him, just not at that price. I think that LA will be interested in him for their 3C spot, like you said, but only if they can get him for closer to $1.5M. They simply can't afford anything more.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
54,944
14,686
PHX
As for the move itself. I guess it depends on why it happened. If it's a cost cutting move, well honestly, that's pathetic considering how different their salary and caps numbers are already. If it's to let younger guys play, I somewhat understand. I don't agree with that, but I get it. I am surprised they didn't trade him. If they couldn't trade him now, they probably could have at the deadline.

Odd move really.

It's not odd. Vermette wasn't good last year outside of his streak with Tanguay. His play dropped off a cliff. Nobody notices because it's AZ and the games weren't meaningful. Christian Dvorak was arguably ready last year, and management cleared a spot for him with this move. This is the same way Domi and Duclair were phased in.

Net benefit of the move makes the team better, so who cares if they save some money in the process?
 

JimmyTwoTimes

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
19,958
5,281
datsyuk retired... retired players dont get paid but do count for the cap floor

pheonix buys out a real player that might help and replaces him with a name on paper and saves a couple million dollars

im sooooooooo glad my team isnt doing crap like this while asking for my support

They're looking to tank.
 

rt

Clean Hits on Substack
It sounds like everyone is still very confused.

Let me help you with that:

Tanguay isn't returninig and Vermette won't be getting Top Two PP time this season.

Vermette had 21 EV pts in 76gp last year = 0.28EVppg

58gp 24ps without Tanguay = .41ppg
18gp 14pts with Tanguay = .78ppg

Vermette with Tanguay:

184:08 time played

Goals for per 60 3.91
Goals against per 60 0.98

Vermette without Tanguay:

735:20 time played

Goals for per 60 1.71
Goals against per 60 3.18

Without Tanguay, and without significant PP time, Vermette was headed for a cliff. Without late season chemistry with Tanguay and top PP minutes, Vermette would've likely been a 25pt player last season. Now he's a year older.

In management's minds, they simply removed him while they still could. Otherwise they'd be paying 100% of his salary for him to play for the AHL affiliate in Tucson. Instead they only have to pay 66% of his salary and he gets to sell his wares to another NHL team.

Their thinking is that this is better for the club and better for the player.

Some further reading that is very, very interesting:

Individual penalty differential isn’t exactly a statistic that’s regularly used, but can certainly help a team determine whether a player is tangibly affecting overall ability to get through a game without playing shorthanded.

Players with positive penalty differentials draw more penalties than they take, and negative differentials are the opposite.

Last season, Vermette finished the year with six individual penalties drawn… but with 25 individual penalties taken.

Per Corsica Hockey, that was good for a minus-19 differential at even strength, worst on the team by a full five penalities (defenseman Connor Murphy was the second worst, with a minus-14). Even controversial Coyotes forwards like Shane Doan and Martin Hanzal, both of whom are no stranger to the penalty box, did a better job of balancing out their transgressions with power play opportunities provided.

For Vermette, there wasn’t exactly a preconceived notion that he was drawing penalties for the team. If anything, there was a sense of frustration surrounding his play because of his time spent in the box – but where some players only seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time in the box, Vermette actually did.

That, combined with his poor possession play, certainly helps explain why the team was willing to shell out money just so he wouldn’t play next year.

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-w...toine-vermette-buyout-necessary-evil-arizona/

^ important to note that the Coyotes had one of the league's worst PK% last season, as well.


Summary: Management likely believes he's going to be awful without choice PP mins and Alex Tanguay. He's also a penalty taking machine that never draws any. They feel he's a net negative.


Without Tanguay, he was an offensive black-hole last season. Apart from the PP where the majority of his production came. This season, he wouldn't have been getting any PP time, and Tanguay is gone.

The Coyotes were looking at 20-25pt center who's PK usage had declined so much he barely managed to get 1min/gp on the PK last season, despite his team having one of the league's worst penalty kills. Though, it's not a shock he had reduced PK minutes, given that he took 20 more penalties than he drew last season, which was worst on the team.

He was an undisciplined player last season, which hurt the team. He wasn't a contributor at even strength, and was looking at having only even strength minutes in the upcoming season.

Obviously management (and Dave Tippett is both the coach and John Chayka's boss) feel that the team is better off without Vermette because he's a net negative player that hurts the team on the ice more than he helps the team on the ice. The numbers certainly suggest that's the case, and when you took the time to give it the eye-test, it's not surprising that the numbers shake out that way.

2.5million & Vermette not on ice > 3.75million & Vermette on ice

If he can clean up the minor penalties, and he comes cheap enough, he should be a fine 4th line center.

76gp 21EVpts = 0.28EVppg

58gp 24pts without Tanguay = .41ppg

76gp 38pts 21EVpts = 55% of pts at EV

.41ppg w/o Tanguay x 82gp = 34pts x .55EV = 19pts

A healthy Vermette with no Tanguay and no PP time gets you around 20pts
 

ck26

Alcoholab User
Jan 31, 2007
12,243
2,956
Sun Belt
As for the move itself. I guess it depends on why it happened. If it's a cost cutting move, well honestly, that's pathetic considering how different their salary and caps numbers are already. If it's to let younger guys play, I somewhat understand. I don't agree with that, but I get it. I am surprised they didn't trade him. If they couldn't trade him now, they probably could have at the deadline.

Odd move really.
Does the entire continent have a learning disability, or is it just people posting in this thread?

10 days ago, acquiring Antoine Vermette for the upcoming season would have cost:
a) $3.75m
b) some number of assets, we'll call it a 2017 7th round pick

For the last week, Antoine Vermette has been a UFA. Acquiring his services for the upcoming season costs:
c) however much cash you negotiate, presumably less than $3.75m

Vermette is still unsigned, so clearly no team has chosen to pay C yet.

If no team is willing to pay C, why the **** would a team have paid A and B?

giphy.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad