Post-Game Talk: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! JETS SWEEP OILERS

[Whileee]

Of the canonical 30 examples--because Doerrie used to work for an NHL team so you know she can call penalties off a TV with perfect accuracy--here are the two that were gif'd and keep getting cited:



One in which McNHLAwards hold Appleton immediately before getting held in-turn by Appleton. Two penalties.

The other in which he pulls his parachute because he wants to avoid a clean open-ice hit and puts himself in a more dangerous position. Not a penalty at all.



He writes, specifically, in the article that he was pointedly only paying attention to one team:

"I’m sure there were calls on Edmonton I missed, maybe even obvious ones (the referees even managed to “miss” a puck over the glass call), but over the next 40-plus minutes of hockey there were at least five missed calls on the Jets."​

That is more than enough to indicate to me that this is a sound thesis (officiating shouldn't change with the weather) but a bad faith argument. He goes on to completely ignore the fact that Ehlers and Scheifele are also elite at drawing penalties, embeds a tweet showing one of the only two cited examples (of the supposed 30), which isn't a penalty at all, and then goes on Twitter and pretends the Jets defence had the same holes all series as they did in the regular season.

I don't know if Luszczyszyn accomplished what he was trying to--his seemingly-annual article about how it's dumb to change to rules mid-season--but what he definitely did accomplish was to slander the Jets and spread misinformation about how they beat the sad-sack Oilers in four straight.

Watching for and reporting on missed calls on one team is bush league. Also, let's not pretend that the analytics community can't have any ulterior motives. They literally make a living from selling their analytics-focused content. Dom L used his analytical approach to predict that the Jets would finish 6th in the Division, and had them as decided underdogs in the playoff series vs. the Oilers. It's reasonable to question whether he has some implicit bias in his suggestion that the Jets got away with a lot of infractions, since it feeds into the narrative that their win wasn't legitimate. If he were in a real research world he would be excoriated for the obvious conflict of interest. I think a lot of the commentary we see about the Jets from some analytics folks has that slant - the analytics are infallible, so the sweep is just goaltending, refs, luck, etc. I wouldn't argue that none of those played a role, but there certainly is a lot of open bias against the Jets and derision of Maurice, etc. that seems rooted to some degree in a motivation to defend the current analytical edifice against critique. I would note that this climate would be highly unusual in most research domains.

 

[Evil Little]

This is what Luszczszyn's piece has lead to:




Supposedly national writers who seemingly go to bed at 9:00pm Eastern and are regurgitating nonsense that isn't true, doesn't help the Oilers, but come next week might help their balding, rat-faced, $11m asshole get some calls.

 

[snowkiddin]

I know it's provided a convenient excuse for many fans and that the Jets didn't win on the back of officiating alone. I don't think anyone in the media, if asked, would say it was the only factor either. I do think it definitely helped the Jets more than it hurt them - the Jets depth in scoring is better so even if some calls against the Jets were missed, the Jets have better scoring depth to score when it matters, while the Oilers rarely looked threatening, despite what the advanced stats say, when McDavid or Draisaitl weren't on the ice.

Yeah, the refs putting away the whistles helped the Jets more than the Oilers because the Oilers are dependent on the PP.

The league has called the game like this for decades though. It’s an Oilers problem for not being better at even strength, not a league problem for calling playoffs the way they do every year.

As far as obstructing McDavid and not getting called — it goes both ways. We had scoring chances impeded by should-be penalties that weren’t called too.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Of the canonical 30 examples--because Doerrie used to work for an NHL team so you know she can call penalties off a TV with perfect accuracy--here are the two that were gif'd and keep getting cited:



One in which McNHLAwards hold Appleton immediately before getting held in-turn by Appleton. Two penalties.

The other in which he pulls his parachute because he wants to avoid a clean open-ice hit and puts himself in a more dangerous position. Not a penalty at all.



He writes, specifically, in the article that he was pointedly only paying attention to one team:

"I’m sure there were calls on Edmonton I missed, maybe even obvious ones (the referees even managed to “miss” a puck over the glass call), but over the next 40-plus minutes of hockey there were at least five missed calls on the Jets."​

That is more than enough to indicate to me that this is a sound thesis (officiating shouldn't change with the weather) but a bad faith argument. He goes on to completely ignore the fact that Ehlers and Scheifele are also elite at drawing penalties, embeds a tweet showing one of the only two cited examples (of the supposed 30), which isn't a penalty at all, and then goes on Twitter and pretends the Jets defence had the same holes all series as they did in the regular season.

I don't know if Luszczyszyn accomplished what he was trying to--his seemingly-annual article about how it's dumb to change to rules mid-season--but what he definitely did accomplish was to slander the Jets and spread misinformation about how they beat the sad-sack Oilers in four straight.

The main difference between the Yamamoto call and the example quoted is that Yamamoto (from what I remember) reached around from behind across Ehlers face and pulled him down. The McDavid example above is after he had just held our player and the contact is more side by side and battling for position. I don't think they are equivalent.

 

[Aggie204]

The 2nd round cannot start fast enough. I’m tired of talking about the dead corpse that is the 20-21 Coilers. We won, on to the next BS content created by Toronto Sports Network, Shitty Network and the other reach-around reporters out there.

I read that Sun report, I love the underdog story.

 

[Ducky10]

If we're calling the McDavid play a penalty, then Appleton's initial play in the Oilers zone before that was. It would be called 100% of the time in the regular season, and a player wouldn't have to resort to holding back because the arm would go up and the play would be called and you'd get a 2 minute PP from it.

You can't make the point that officiating is bad in the playoffs without making it this type of article. If he says that penalties missed were fairly even on both sides, most people say "So what? It cancels out". We've had 3 NHL coaches (at least, might have missed one) complain about the officiating standard in the playoffs so far. Dom (not going to try with that last name) isn't making a new point here. He wasn't doing a full on study here. Of course there were missed calls against the Jets but this kind of officiating hurts everyone. It just so happens to have the added effect of making your best players useless some of the time.

You can’t make the point officiating is bad in the playoffs by being balanced in your examples? Sorry, I disagree. It was an impulsive, poorly laid out article. I’m not really even sure what you’re defending tbh. I’m not calling the article a Jets hit piece or a conspiracy theory to screw us against the Leafs. I’m calling it a lame, reactionary article by a writer in a publication I expect more from.

Intent or not, it came across as victimization and missed the opportunity at a larger, more important point in how it was presented.

 

[Evil Little]

You can’t make the point officiating is bad in the playoffs by being balanced in your examples? Sorry, I disagree. It was an impulsive, poorly laid out article. I’m not really even sure what you’re defending tbh. I’m not calling the article a Jets hit piece or a conspiracy theory to screw us against the Leafs. I’m calling it a lame, reactionary article by a writer in a publication I expect more from.

Intent or not, it came across as victimization and missed the opportunity at a larger, more important point in how it was presented.

In fairness, Luszczszyn had reason to be upset because his models are dependent on regular season data which is tainted when officiating changes.

Basically every response to him, though, has been 'you're right, the Jets were gifted that series on a platter!', which is incredibly frustrating given how hard, clean, and sharply they played that series as a whole.

 

[tbcwpg]

You can’t make the point officiating is bad in the playoffs by being balanced in your examples? Sorry, I disagree. It was an impulsive, poorly laid out article. I’m not really even sure what you’re defending tbh. I’m not calling the article a Jets hit piece or a conspiracy theory to screw us against the Leafs. I’m calling it a lame, reactionary article by a writer in a publication I expect more from.

Intent or not, it came across as victimization and missed the opportunity at a larger, more important point in how it was presented.

I'm mainly defending it against the accusations that it's some Jets hit piece. I also agree that the NHL has an overarching problem of marketing its star players because the officiating standard is such that they can't show their abilities. I don't think they should get special treatment like most NBA stars do, but I think if they called the game fairly the stars would shine a bit better.

 

[Neuf]

This is what Luszczszyn's piece has lead to:




Supposedly national writers who seemingly go to bed at 9:00pm Eastern and are regurgitating nonsense that isn't true, doesn't help the Oilers, but come next week might help their balding, rat-faced, $11m asshole get some calls.

Garage league comment? Lemieux made that comment while dominating the league and winning the cup, not after serving pizzas to the other team.

Jets did the hockey world a favor

 

[untouchable21]

I'm too tired & happy to go through all 16 pages so if someone has already spoken about this I apologize, but I just need to say this:

Paul Maurice probably won't get enough credit for this series sweep. We all love to rag on him on him on these boards, but he managed to get the ENTIRE TEAM to buy into a team defense first approach and stick with it for about 99% of the series. A team that was allergic to a defense first approach for the vast majority of the season all of the sudden turned it around with amazing results.

Paul Maurice & the rest of the coaching staff deserve a TON of credit.

Let that sink in.

On to the next round baby!!!!!!!

I’ll reserve handing out the accolades to Maurice and the coaching staff until they do the same to the Leafs.

Knock out Toronto and I will buy a Jets jersey for the sole purpose of putting Maurice’s name on the back of it. And will gladly enjoy all the crow I can eat.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

How about you blame the organization that can’t put a solid team behind the two top players in the game instead?

or

the same organization who employs a dinosaur of a coach who loves his trap hockey that is straight out of the 90s.

or
Maya team who has to play a D man over 60 minutes in one game because the have no trust in any other D ?

nope make an article bitching about penalties

f*** off

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not understanding you, you don't think Tampa could offer up 4 to 5 high value players?

Do you really think he's worth more than 3 Kucherovs?

Tampa is the only team willing to offer up 30 million worth of players for 12.5 million back.

It seems a little extreme to be suggesting Oil trade McD. He needs a better supporting cast but he is the best player in the world and he is only 24. How often does any team trade a player like that at such an early age?

However, they might have an unusual situation. Re-sign Nuge and they have 2 top 6 C's, one of them outstanding. IF they could find the right trading partner it might make sense. That is a big if.

 

[Ducky10]

I'm mainly defending it against the accusations that it's some Jets hit piece. I also agree that the NHL has an overarching problem of marketing its star players because the officiating standard is such that they can't show their abilities. I don't think they should get special treatment like most NBA stars do, but I think if they called the game fairly the stars would shine a bit better.

I don’t really get behind the more fairly part tbh. I’ve longed railed against how poor NHL officiating is and that the dept of player safety is a complete joke. I don’t think the main problem is low talent slugs dragging the stars down and not getting called for it. The main problem is the complete inconsistency and the culture that exists in which games are called a certain way depending on certain variables.

The NHL doesn’t have an issue marketing it’s star players because poor officiating neuters their talent. They have a problem marketing their stars because their marketing is A. Horrendous and B. The vast majority of people in their largest market don’t give a shit.

McDavid is the face of the NHL, I don’t think the NHL’s marketing efforts are magically enhanced by giving him an extra 25 pp points. As far as a longer run in the playoffs go, the only thing that’s going to help is the Oilers simply becoming a better team.

 

[untouchable21]

A Leafs series would be similar to this one I think. Toronto is deeper than Edmonton for sure, but not having Tavares would mean that the Jets could try to match Matthews and Marner like they did McDavid and Draisaitl.

Thing is with Toronto, Matthews is a hell of a better finisher than McDavid or Draisaitl. Much more dangerous even from the perimeter due to his shot being lethal.

 

[Romang67]

Well, I guess we can settle on a playoff avatar that will mollify the upset crowd:

 

[Evil Little]

I'm mainly defending it against the accusations that it's some Jets hit piece. I also agree that the NHL has an overarching problem of marketing its star players because the officiating standard is such that they can't show their abilities. I don't think they should get special treatment like most NBA stars do, but I think if they called the game fairly the stars would shine a bit better.

I think it would be more fair to say it's willfully negligent in painting a picture of the series's officiating as a whole--and, indeed, entirely disregards Ehlers and Scheifele who are also two of the best at drawing penalties--in favour of unhinged ramblings over small sample sizes.

But some of the support materials he cites (Doerrie's definitely verifiable 30, the OilersNation phantom kneeing gif) and the takes that have used the piece as a springboard absolutely are Jets hit pieces. And it's pissing me off because Stanley, Morrissey, DeMelo, Poolman (et al.) should all be really proud of how they played that series.

 

[AussieBomberJet]

Honestly, dealing with Oilers fans makes me SO happy I decided to move out of Edmonton years ago. They are insufferable now as they were then. I have other gripes about Albertans in general, but since this an NHL thread, I'll just state I'm happy about not living amongst Coilers fans anymore

 

[Finnflash]

All this gripping about the oilers losing is funny but fed by small minded media (homers)

If most of what they say is true we should just hand the Stanley cup to the president trophy winner every year. (Well maybe not this year).

how many times has the president trophy winner won the Stanley Cup. Definitely not as much as an underdog team.

because there is parity in the league you hear more often than not “we just want to make the playoffs then see what happens”
Once playoffs start it’s an equal opportunity for everyone.

it’s just all ridiculous. Every team is given a chance to:

1. play enough regular season games to make the playoffs
2. Once in the playoffs given the chance to win

what else can u do

 

[ps241]

If i was on twitter i'd follow you or whatever the hell you are supposed to do on twitter.

If you haven’t been on Twitter yet I recommend you avoid it. You are a pretty positive guy and there is no place for that silly emotion there.

However, if you have 3 degrees, are friendless, unemployed, living in your parents basement in your 40’s, and you want to burn this shitty planet down but are too scared to light a match then I think you would love Twitter.

 

[kanadalainen]

How about you blame the organization that can’t put a solid team behind the two top players in the game instead?

or

the same organization who employs a dinosaur of a coach who loves his trap hockey that is straight out of the 90s.

or
Maya team who has to play a D man over 60 minutes in one game because the have no trust in any other D ?

nope make an article bitching about penalties

f*** off

This is so true.

As I (and others in this forum) have had some reason to occasionally complain about specific percieved slights and faults with NHL reffing, I am no saint. However, lets be clear - this is not a specific complaint. Its a movement, and a launching of a generalized tirade - and will probably always end in tears.

Complaining about reffing after the fact, and in the harsh light of a swept series, and in the spirit of self-service is weak, so weak. Like most drivel, this fluff will be washed away in the annals of sports history, to eventually signify nothing.

Most of my colleagues use twitter, I actively avoid it.

 

[jokesondee]

This is what Luszczszyn's piece has lead to:




Supposedly national writers who seemingly go to bed at 9:00pm Eastern and are regurgitating nonsense that isn't true, doesn't help the Oilers, but come next week might help their balding, rat-faced, $11m asshole get some calls.

So now this "national writer" has picked up the torch from Coiler fans and given their ref whining legitimacy on the national stage. Get f***ed. I lost count how many times i saw our players get dragged down behind their net, not to mention blatant non-calls like the Nurse puck flip and the Smith playing the puck outside the trapezoid. So i guess the narrative is "McDavid and Draisaitl didnt combine for 10 points a game against the Jets so they must have been interfered with"? STFU already. There were plenty of calls that werent made on BOTH teams. My fear is now that clowns like this Brown Guy Who Goes Down have given it a national stage the refs are hearing this noise and might be more inclined to "make up" for this perceived injustice next round.

 

[Jets 31]

If you haven’t been on Twitter yet I recommend you avoid it. You are a pretty positive guy and there is no place for that silly emotion there.

However, if you have 3 degrees, are friendless, unemployed, living in your parents basement in your 40’s, and you want to burn this shitty planet down but are too scared to light a match then I think you would love Twitter.

Apparently i'm not going on twitter then, thanks.

 

[Jets 31]

So now this "national writer" has picked up the torch from Coiler fans and given their ref whining legitimacy on the national stage. Get f***ed. I lost count how many times i saw our players get dragged down behind their net, not to mention blatant non-calls like the Nurse puck flip and the Smith playing the puck outside the trapezoid. So i guess the narrative is "McDavid and Draisaitl didnt combine for 10 points a game against the Jets so they must have been interfered with"? STFU already. There were plenty of calls that werent made on BOTH teams. My fear is now that clowns like this Brown Guy Who Goes Down have given it a national stage the refs are hearing this noise and might be more inclined to "make up" for this perceived injustice next round.

Guy barely watches the series, likes McJesus, predicted the Jets would not make playoffs = the Jets must have cheated to beat the Oilers 4 straight. Shoo , Shoo buggar off buddy you were wrong about the Jets, deal with it like a professional not a 10 year old spoiled brat.

 

[Do or Die]

Read the article and thought that Luszczszyn was bang on.
In related news, Donald Trump won the last US election.....

 

[Howard Chuck]

I’m looking for stories because I’m so happy the Jets won, but it appears I have nowhere to turn because we are just a bunch of dirty cheats who had the games given to us.

What a sad environment we live in now.