Are you feeling more or less optimistic about the leafs future since Dubas took over?

[Martin Skoula]

It should have been and I'm glad it was,but if you are going to tell hat keeping a 2nd round pick, not even a prospect yet, just a pick is better than getting an established player, then it stands to reason that you probably wouldn't have made the Muzzin deal because 1st round picks are even more valuable.

Having a good prospect pool is cool but ask Pittsburgh fans if they care that their prospect pool sucks.

I bet the majority don't

You're trying to compare 2 months of a guy who couldn't cut it at 4C vs 1.5 years and 2 playoff runs with a legit #2/3 D.

Lou spent back to back 2nds trying to fix the 4C problem TWICE. Spending a 2nd on a 4C should get you a young long-term solution, not a guy who cant cut it in the Czech league 6 months after you buy him.

Spend picks if it's going to improve an important (not 4C) part of your team long-term (not 2 months and then spend more picks fixing the exact same hole for another 2 months). It doesn't help that Dubas solved the 4C issue by spending league minimum on Spezza.

Just to confirm though, you're saying you'd rather have 2 months of Plekanec over drafting Robertson right?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That’s going to be tough with the way he’s maxed out the cap. He may have to move a big name and the thought of that happening is a little unsettling.

Yes it may be for most of us. But you gotta do what you gotta do to make a winner. It always has to be about da team.

 

[The Podium]

Certainly better than dealing your 1st round pick for a short-term cap dump, to compensate for your overspending habits, I'll give you that !! .

Thank Lou for that one. And now you started an endless cycle of arguments.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Problem with addressing the D, which I agree is the right choice, however Dubas attempted that last year when he traded Kadri for Kerfoot and renting Barrie, and then acquired Ceci and both those attempts failed to address the poor defense and in fact made it worse as Leaf goals against went up not down.

Both Barrie and Ceci will now walk away as UFAs and we're right back to square #1 of needing a pair of RHD, with only journeyman Holl as the only one the roster on the right side.

Never good when your GM is constantly fixing his own mistakes while attempt to upgrade the team. Bet he would love a do-over on that Kadri trade as dealing him now for 9 goal Kerfoot the residual part of that trade also downgraded the team and wasted a good asset that could have returned a top 4 RHD and preferred long-term solution perhaps.

All true but every GM makes mistakes. You just highlighted another one for sure. But until it is fixed he has to keep trying. Muzzy was a great deal so that one worked. We need another Muzzy preferably right handed.

 

[Menzinger]

That depends on if Dubas learns how to evaluate goaltending because for all the good he's done and there is more good than bad.

Kyle Dubas is clueless when it comes to goaltending, otherwise it wouldn't have taken him almost 18 months to find a decent backup and he either didn't try or was spectacular failure at it for nearly 18 months neither is acceptable.

The time is coming when he needs to either keep Freddy, a proven top 10 goalie, or find a replacement, and no it's NOT Jack Campbell.

IF he's learned to evaluate goaltending then we'll be fine, if not the team is screwed

Cambell so far would suggest otherwise.

I think a legit criticsm of him was not acting sooner to fix the backup situation, BUT there are other factors beyond his goalie evaluation that impact it - namely the trade market.

Edit: typo

 

[Menzinger]

That was an awful deal. Could set the team back a couple of years for sure. I don't understand the thinking behind the deal. It was just the complete opposite type of defenseman we needed. And why think, after Rielly was coming off a 70 point season, that we need more offence and a PP specialist from the back end. Completely misread the situation imo. We just gave Kadri away.

The problem is i think managment got too focused on getting 2 pieces back (a 3c and top 4 d) instead of just a single D man.

It didnt work out perfectly, but the trade in terms of assets in and out looked good "on paper" at the time. I also suspect the gap between kerfoot and Kadri wont be that large over.the coming seasons

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The problem is i think managment got too focused on getting 2 pieces back (a 3c and top 4 d) instead of just a single D man.

It didnt work out perfectly, but the trade in terms of assets in and out looked good "on paper" at the time. I also suspect the gap between kerfoot and Kadri wont be that large over.the coming seasons

Every trade assessed in hindsight is obvious. This one was bad. But at da time I thought it could work. Today yeah it was a complete screw up.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Cambell so far would suggest otherwise.

I think a legit criticsm of him was nlt actibg sooner to fix the backup situation, BUT there are other factors beyond his goalie evaluation that impact it - namely the trade market.

Whatt about th free agent market? There was plenty of opportunity and he ignored it all and allowed Hutch to piss away between 8-14 points before FINALLY fixing it.

 

[The Podium]

Whatt about th free agent market? There was plenty of opportunity and he ignored it all and allowed Hutch to piss away between 8-14 points before FINALLY fixing it.

He didnt have the capspace until players (Mikheyev/Johnson) were on LTIR and suspected out for the season. A player wouldve had to been moved out for him to sign a FA backup G, not to mention I still think Campbell ended up being the best option.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The problem is i think managment got too focused on getting 2 pieces back (a 3c and top 4 d) instead of just a single D man.

It didnt work out perfectly, but the trade in terms of assets in and out looked good "on paper" at the time. I also suspect the gap between kerfoot and Kadri wont be that large over.the coming seasons

I would say the issue was bringing in Barrie before firing Babcock (that might be on Shanahan). Why would you try to "re-invent" a high-end player that is only in town for a year maybe?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I would say the issue was bringing in Barrie before firing Babcock (that might be on Shanahan). Why would you try to "re-invent" a high-end player that is only in town for a year maybe?

Ego cock did it again. Another one of his bone brained idears. Ego cock not even a good NHL coach never mind a HOFer. So so overrated. My cat could have coached Detroit to that Cup and Team Canada to gold. OK boys Lindstrom goes every 2nd shift. OK Team Canada roll da lines boys. Common.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Ego cock did it again. Another one of his bone brained idears. Ego cock not even a good NHL coach never mind a HOFer. So so overrated. My cat could have coached Detroit to that Cup and Team Canada to gold. OK boys Lindstrom goes every 2nd shift. OK Team Canada roll da lines boys. Common.

Imagine taking what is possibly the greatest lineup ever seen in hockey and just barely beating Slovakia and Latvia.

But hey maybe Detroit only won because Babcock was the only one smart enough to recognize that Abdelkader needs to be stapled to the 1st line no matter what.

 

[Menzinger]

I would say the issue was bringing in Barrie before firing Babcock (that might be on Shanahan). Why would you try to "re-invent" a high-end player that is only in town for a year maybe?

Thats a good point.

And an unfortunate byproduct of how the front office was put together. Ideally Dubas would have had his coach that fit his vision from day 1.

 

[IPS]

Imagine taking what is possibly the greatest lineup ever seen in hockey and just barely beating Slovakia and Latvia.

But hey maybe Detroit only won because Babcock was the only one smart enough to recognize that Abdelkader needs to be stapled to the 1st line no matter what.

I remember Babcock permanently stapling Rick Nash to Crosby's line even though they had positively zero chemistry between them. Nash definitely held back Sid's offensive game with his incessant puck-hogging. Who was I to expect he'd do any line juggling with the Leafs when he wouldn't even juggle the lines of team f***ing Canada.

 

[ACC1224]

The fact that you think Ceci was acquired to solve our D problem speaks volumes about your knowledge of the situation...

Criticize Dubas if you must, but dont make false accusations. Ceci was acquired purely as part of a long-term cap dump

Dubas admitted that?
Sounds like he was happy to bring Ceci in.

 

[The Podium]

Dubas admitted that?
Sounds like he was happy to bring Ceci in.

Did you expect him to come out and say "We didnt really want Ceci, he was just a means to dump Zaitsev and since he was qualified we were forced to sign him" about an active roster player?

 

[ACC1224]

Did you expect him to come out and say "We didnt really want Ceci, he was just a means to dump Zaitsev and since he was qualified we were forced to sign him" about an active roster player?

No I wouldn’t expect that at all. Just found it funny that you took exception to Mess’ post because of his lack of proof.
Being forced to take him, if that was the case, is another one of Dubas’ failings.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Dubas admitted that?
Sounds like he was happy to bring Ceci in.

Of course he's gonna talk up the guy he just traded for in the media.

I think Ceci was worth a shot and got rid of the zaitsev deal so no loss even though it didn't work out.

 

[ACC1224]

Of course he's gonna talk up the guy he just traded for in the media.

I think Ceci was worth a shot and got rid of the zaitsev deal so no loss even though it didn't work out.

I agree but how do we know when he is telling the truth or just talking up a guy?

Couldn’t that cap money have been used in a better way?

 

[Crosscrease14]

I agree but how do we know when he is telling the truth or just talking up a guy?

Couldn’t that cap money have been used in a better way?

In hindsight, but getting rid of the zaitsev deal was the real key. Had Ceci worked out as a top 4 would've just been icing on the cake.

I never take anything GM's say in the media at face value. Part of the job. It's almost always just politics

 

[Dekes For Days]

to address the poor defense and in fact made it worse

This is wrong. Leaf defense was better this year than any other year under this core, despite massive injuries.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No I wouldn’t expect that at all. Just found it funny that you took exception to Mess’ post because of his lack of proof.

Just because you're happy that you have somebody that addresses an area of need instead of a long-term anchor that didn't want to be there, it doesn't mean it's your ideal choice that you expect to be a long-term solution.

Being forced to take him, if that was the case, is another one of Dubas’ failings.

Lou signed Zaitsev, and Zaitev had asked for a trade. And Ceci actually helped us way more than Zaitsev.

 

[ACC1224]

In hindsight, but getting rid of the zaitsev deal was the real key. Had Ceci worked out as a top 4 would've just been icing on the cake.

I never take anything GM's say in the media at face value. Part of the job. It's almost always just politics

Yep agreed.
I guess people will hear what they like depending on what side their agenda falls on.
Those of us with no agenda fall in the middle somewhere.
Think Ceci will be re-signed?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Those of us with no agenda

Hilarious, especially considering your previous comment was blaming Dubas for Zaitsev's bad contract.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

In hindsight, but getting rid of the zaitsev deal was the real key. Had Ceci worked out as a top 4 would've just been icing on the cake.

I never take anything GM's say in the media at face value. Part of the job. It's almost always just politics

The icing on the cake would have been walking away from Ceci's contract in arbitration. Would have been a genius move to clear all that cap space and bring in 2 free agent D to address depth in the middle of free agency.