Are We Headed in the Right Direction?

[JRichard]

I think what I am worried about is that people still think of the Habs as a team in year 2 of their rebuild, which is completely false.
Suzuki is in his D+7, Newhook Dach Caufield D+5, Monahan is an established vet, so is Anderson they have bottom 6 vets (pearson, evans, gallagher), Matheson Savard are supposedly top 4 Dmen, Guhle is in his D+4, same as Barron, Harris is D+7, Xhekaj too.

This team is actually quite close to their prime and should be competitive. The lack of coherent play is worrisome. I say that as a guy who liked the idea of Dach Newhook trades

Holy s. Must admit these D+ numbers made my eyes open wider than normal. Are we down now to hoping for 1 po round win in 2026??

 

[BaseballCoach]

Holy s. Must admit these D+ numbers made my eyes open wider than normal. Are we down now to hoping for 1 po round win in 2026??

Don't be overly depressed by the D+ numbers.

Most prospects other than the very, very top ones, play 2 more years in Junior.

So a guy who then plays 1 year in the AHL is an NHL rookie at D+4, for examples Mailloux and Roy next year.

Guhle skipped the AHL and is just a sophomore but is tagged as D+4. And yet when Slaf is in the NHL in his D+2, many say he shouldn't be here yet!

All this being said, we can see why Hughes and Gorton like the idea of trading draft picks for guys who are coming off an ELC, as we are buying three years of development already and narrowing the age gap between new players and the young core and young veteran leaders (Matheson, Monahan, Anderson).

 

[Habbietat]

What it reeks of is the overselling of the benefits of tanking.

going through the deconstruction its easy to see how Oilers got caught in the trap of never getting better, shit can go wrong pretty easily

 

[WeThreeKings]

going through the deconstruction its easy to see how Oilers got caught in the trap of never getting better, shit can go wrong pretty easily

The Oilers put all their cap into trying to get out of the rebuild too early (see what Detroit is doing) and now don't have the room financially to put together a deep roster, with a good defense and competent goaltending so they can take advantage of having the two best offensive players in the world.

We have not seen or heard anything from this iteration of the Habs front office that indicates they have any interest in doing that. What they acknowledge, and we all know, is that the missing piece is more elite offensive talent and hopefully they'll be able to procure one in trade or find one in the top end of this draft.

 

[Simarino]

I love MSL but I'm not sure what good having a "Player's Coach" is doing for us right now. There is zero system in place. MSL just gives motivational speeches in games we lose 5-1. I'm not advocating that we fire him but we need to bring in somebody who actually has some tactical skills behind the bench.

Getting outcoached by Sheldon f***ing Keefe of all people in Game 1 of the season really left a sour taste in my mouth. Giving up 2 EN goals to tie the game, the Leafs pulled the goalie with 6+ minutes left and won the game. Every single player should have gotten chewed out after that.

At least Guy Boucher would be teaching the young guys how to play in the NHL. MSL just tells the guys to go out there and have fun, and he shows obvious favoritism to Caufield, to the point where other players on the Habs call him Cole's Dad.

Marty says that players get offensive freedom when they show responsibility in the defensive zone, but none of our forwards our defensively responsible. We get out possessed by a disgusting margin. Even with a personnel disadvantage, good coaching would counteract a lot of that.

Also nobody can complete a pass...

Early days for the season, but the Canadiens after 3 games have controlled play at 5-vs-5. They have a 53% control of xG, 58.8% control of high danger chance….

Special teams are the problem so far, not the 5 on 5 system.

 

[1909]

MSL would be an excellent assistant coach... not THE headcoach !

Early days for the season, but the Canadiens after 3 games have controlled play at 5-vs-5. They have a 53% control of xG, 58.8% control of high danger chance….

Special teams are the problem so far, not the 5 on 5 system.

That is where you need the right players to play on. They don't.

 

[Tyson]

Are the Habs going in the right direction? Not with this coaching staff in both Montreal and Laval. When the new management team took over they may have made the amateur scouting group worse. This team appears in good hands, it may not be.

The Oilers put all their cap into trying to get out of the rebuild too early (see what Detroit is doing) and now don't have the room financially to put together a deep roster, with a good defense and competent goaltending so they can take advantage of having the two best offensive players in the world.

We have not seen or heard anything from this iteration of the Habs front office that indicates they have any interest in doing that. What they acknowledge, and we all know, is that the missing piece is more elite offensive talent and hopefully they'll be able to procure one in trade or find one in the top end of this draft.

Too bad Michkov wasn't available.

 

[morhilane]

Holy s. Must admit these D+ numbers made my eyes open wider than normal. Are we down now to hoping for 1 po round win in 2026??

You don't even have to look at the D+ numbers to see the gap. Just look at the team average age.

The league average age is around 28 years old (27-29). Habs are at 25.5 right now and that's with Allen (33), Pearson (31), Gallagher (31) and Savard (32). Half the roster (11 players) are 24 and under.

And the current line-up will be quite different in 3 years from now, some of the prospects will pan out.

 

[sandviper]

The Oilers put all their cap into trying to get out of the rebuild too early (see what Detroit is doing) and now don't have the room financially to put together a deep roster, with a good defense and competent goaltending so they can take advantage of having the two best offensive players in the world.

We have not seen or heard anything from this iteration of the Habs front office that indicates they have any interest in doing that. What they acknowledge, and we all know, is that the missing piece is more elite offensive talent and hopefully they'll be able to procure one in trade or find one in the top end of this draft.

IIRC, the FO was optimistic but still implied the rebuild is still ongoing.

It can be brutal to watch sometimes, but we’re really only going into the 3rd year. In fact, it’s maybe really only the second since the first year was an inadvertent and forced start to the rebuild.

People are lamenting over Slaf and Reinbacher but we JUST got them. They’re not going to be meaningful contributors for awhile. Even if end up with an offensive stud this draft, still gonna be a couple years for him.

I think we’re moving as planned. Maybe some choices weren’t optimal but we were never going to compete after 3 years of rebuilding…

 

[BaseballCoach]

going through the deconstruction its easy to see how Oilers got caught in the trap of never getting better, shit can go wrong pretty easily

It's not just about things going wrong like an injury to a key player.

It's that the whole framework of a cap and draft league is DESIGNED to only PARTIALLY reward incompetence. To finish in the bottom three, a team probably has about 5 or 6 fewer strong players than a team that wins one playoff round i.e. a top 8 team.

The high draft pick gives a high probability to recoup ONE strong player, if you are not simultaneously losing another one due to age.

A rebuild takes a heckuva lot more than just drafting high for a year or two, or even three. It's actually MORE about talent evaluation and cap management, plus development.

There is reason to believe that Hugo is way better than the previous regime in cap management, and so far the talent evaluation has been well above average as well.

In less than two years, we are going to have a ton of cap dollars available, this is where Hughes has to score.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Are the Habs going in the right direction? Not with this coaching staff in both Montreal and Laval. When the new management team took over they may have made the amateur scouting group worse. This team appears in good hands, it may not be.


Too bad Michkov wasn't available.

Well, the other part of that post is about the shoddy defense. So the Habs are doing the right thing and ensuring that they are building a contending blueline. It is very unlikely we ever get a McDavid, let alone a Draisatl, and unlikely Michkov is close to the level of either of those guys.. Michkov if he hits his potential isn't much of a swing if the defense isn't good enough.

As we've seen with the Leafs and Oilers every year.

IIRC, the FO was optimistic but still implied the rebuild is still ongoing.

It can be brutal to watch sometimes, but we’re really only going into the 3rd year. In fact, it’s maybe really only the second since the first year was an inadvertent and forced start to the rebuild.

People are lamenting over Slaf and Reinbacher but we JUST got them. They’re not going to be meaningful contributors for awhile. Even if end up with an offensive stud this draft, still gonna be a couple years for him.

I think we’re moving as planned. Maybe some choices weren’t optimal but we were never going to compete after 3 years of rebuilding…

Yes, the rebuild is ongoing.. in fact, I believe Hughes said it will be 2-3 more seasons before development isn't the primary focus. They aren't transitioning out of the rebuild any time soon and nor should they.

It's going to be a tough watch for a few years and the biggest thing that's going to make it tough on this fanbase.

• They've never gone through this before so they don't have reasonable expectations
• There's no patience and they are looking to solve every crisis immediately
• Young player development is not a steep upward trajectory. Even Bedard is having a hard time converting in the NHL and he's generational.
• People are over-reacting to every small sample size and hitch in development. You have to know what a rollercoaster is before you ride. You can't complain when you get on it that it's going up high and dipping low, etc.
• They aren't clear that rebuilds take a long time to complete and may require a few 'resets' along the way to get it right.

 

[LaP]

The Oilers put all their cap into trying to get out of the rebuild too early (see what Detroit is doing) and now don't have the room financially to put together a deep roster, with a good defense and competent goaltending so they can take advantage of having the two best offensive players in the world.

We have not seen or heard anything from this iteration of the Habs front office that indicates they have any interest in doing that. What they acknowledge, and we all know, is that the missing piece is more elite offensive talent and hopefully they'll be able to procure one in trade or find one in the top end of this draft.

Avoiding bad contracts to middling players is slowly becoming one of the top skill to have for a GM. I know there's lot of fans of Josh Anderson around here but i still believe 5.5 for a guy like him is too much if you aim to win a cup. You can't pay a guy like Warren Fraggle Rock 2.7 millions. He's replaceable by many players being paid 1.5-1.7 so that's 1 millions less to build your top 6 and top 4.

Identify your core. Should not be more than 4-5 players. Pay them. After that avoid contract over 5.5 millions. Never give more than league's minimum to a 4th line players or 13th forward/7th dman. All other players you can replace them if they ask too much. Don't give 9 millions to Darnel Nurse

 

[WeThreeKings]

Avoiding bad contracts to middling players is slowly becoming one of the top skill to have for a GM. I know there's lot of fans of Josh Anderson around here but i still believe 5.5 for a guy like him is too much if you aim to win a cup. You can't pay a guy like Warren Fraggle Rock 2.7 millions. He's replaceable by many players being paid 1.5-1.7 so that's 1 millions less to build your top 6 and top 4.

Identify your core. Should not be more than 4-5 players. Pay them. After that avoid contract over 5.5 millions. Never give more than league's minimum to a 4th line players or 13th forward/7th dman. All other players you can replace them if they ask too much. Don't give 9 millions to Darnel Nurse

and don't give 5x5.5m to a goalie who wasn't good enough to win a round with the Eastern version of your team.

 

[LaP]

Well, the other part of that post is about the shoddy defense. So the Habs are doing the right thing and ensuring that they are building a contending blueline. It is very unlikely we ever get a McDavid, let alone a Draisatl, and unlikely Michkov is close to the level of either of those guys.. Michkov if he hits his potential isn't much of a swing if the defense isn't good enough.

As we've seen with the Leafs and Oilers every year.



Yes, the rebuild is ongoing.. in fact, I believe Hughes said it will be 2-3 more seasons before development isn't the primary focus. They aren't transitioning out of the rebuild any time soon and nor should they.

It's going to be a tough watch for a few years and the biggest thing that's going to make it tough on this fanbase.

• They've never gone through this before so they don't have reasonable expectations
• There's no patience and they are looking to solve every crisis immediately
• Young player development is not a steep upward trajectory. Even Bedard is having a hard time converting in the NHL and he's generational.
• People are over-reacting to every small sample size and hitch in development. You have to know what a rollercoaster is before you ride. You can't complain when you get on it that it's going up high and dipping low, etc.
• They aren't clear that rebuilds take a long time to complete and may require a few 'resets' along the way to get it right.

It's going to be a tough watch only if we don't hit jackpot at the draft. I mean if we get an elite offensive players will be fun to watch. I mean Chicago will lose this season and miss the playoffs and still draft top 10 but it's going to be fun for their fans to follow the team. Same for Anaheim probably with Carlsson.

The reason it's so grim right now is none of the kids we drafted looks like elite offensive players in the making. Doesn't mean they wont become good players able to help a team win but i would be very surprised to see any of our kids dominate the NHL offensively outside of Caufield in the goal scoring department. We still need to draft high there's no doubt about it imo.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's going to be a tough watch only if we don't hit jackpot at the draft. I mean if we get an elite offensive players will be fun to watch. I mean Chicago will lose this season and miss the playoffs and still draft top 10 but it's going to be fun for their fans to follow the team. Same for Anaheim probably with Carlsson.

The reason it's so grim right now is none of the kids we drafted looks like elite offensive players in the making. Doesn't mean they wont become good players able to help a team win but i would be very surprised to see any of our kids dominate the NHL offensively outside of Caufield in the goal scoring department. We still need to draft high there's no doubt about it imo.

And we will draft high again and we may do it again next year, too.

But I can tell you that having elite offensive players gets old if you don't win.. I have a lot of Leafs friends and they certainly don't sound too happy and enjoying the Marner 100 pt dash and point streaks when they lose early every year.

 

[LaP]

And we will draft high again and we may do it again next year, too.
But I can tell you that having elite offensive players gets old if you don't win.. I have a lot of Leafs friends and they certainly don't sound too happy and enjoying the Marner 100 pt dash and point streaks when they lose early every year.

Yes because they are vets. But when they are kids it's fun to follow their progression. I'm sure Laffs fans had lot of fun when Mattthews and Marner were 18-19-20. Once they are vets obviously you want to win.

 

[ReHabs]

It's going to be a tough watch only if we don't hit jackpot at the draft. I mean if we get an elite offensive players will be fun to watch. I mean Chicago will lose this season and miss the playoffs and still draft top 10 but it's going to be fun for their fans to follow the team. Same for Anaheim probably with Carlsson.

The reason it's so grim right now is none of the kids we drafted looks like elite offensive players in the making. Doesn't mean they wont become good players able to help a team win but i would be very surprised to see any of our kids dominate the NHL offensively outside of Caufield in the goal scoring department. We still need to draft high there's no doubt about it imo.

It’s grim because we don’t have an exit velocity. When your GM skips on Michkov and then declares Reinbacher to be a “D2”, do you expect there to be boiling frothy air of optimism?

Even if everything goes right— Reinbacher, Hutson, Slafkovsky, etc— we will still not be a championship quality team.

They need to add a lot more potential skill to this team, they need to develop the actual skills of the players a lot more.

If Suzuki has another 60ish point year, what does that mean for our hopes and dreams?

Just because they’re young doesn’t mean they’ll get significantly better. You need skill. The Habs don’t seek skill they prioritize other things.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yes because they are vets. But when they are kids it's fun to follow their progression. I'm sure Laffs fans had lot of fun when Mattthews and Marner were 18-19-20. Once they are vets obviously you want to win.

It can be fun to follow the progression of any player, even defenseman.. just isn't fun if we overreact to every bad shift, bad game or bad play..

 

[Loner]

Not sure if we're heading in the right direction but there's not a lot of bright spots at the start of the season with all the injuries and underperforming prospects. Maybe only Roy in the AHL and Konyushkov performance in the KHL.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I like to bring up these posts for the tank lovers telling me I have no clue about Hughes

2023 NHL Entry Draft

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sportsnets-2023-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-february-edition/ https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/scouts-analysis-top-40-prospects-in-2023-and-how-to-build-a-draft-list/

forums.hfboards.com

2023 NHL Entry Draft

Defence is not a strength. Our goalies have to make 10 bell saves on the regular and the team gives up over 30 shots a game. I think he means our future def is our force.

forums.hfboards.com

2023 NHL Entry Draft

Fair enough but this draft is loaded with top F prospects. I'd rather try to get our crown jewel. I Agree. This being said, depending where we draft and who is off the board. We might be better served by going Reinbacher 1st and a forward with FLA picks. There might not be a lot of difference...

forums.hfboards.com

Proposal: - Montreal.. what do you want from Stl for the number 5 OA?

If it's Smith or Carlsson, we draft If it's Michkov, I'd be willing to trade

forums.hfboards.com

 

[admiralcadillac]

Can’t wait for the beginnings of the attacks on MSL when he’s been given a pile of shit to try and turn into gold.

 

[ReHabs]

Can’t wait for the beginnings of the attacks on MSL when he’s been given a pile of shit to try and turn into gold.

You seem to operate on the notion that players, coaches, and GMs are all immune from criticism and should be worshipped for failing. You have more energy to criticize fans who are critical of the tank than for the team that’s failing across the board.

I don’t understand whatever gave you that idea but even a tanking team could and should have good coaching.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

You seem to operate on the notion that players, coaches, and GMs are all immune from criticism and should be worshipped for failing. You have more energy to criticize fans who are critical of the tank than for the team that’s failing across the board.

I don’t understand whatever gave you that idea but even a tanking team could and should have good coaching.

I am starting to think that Marty would have made for a great assistant coach, but we can't demote him and I don't want to fire him. The best course of action is to bring in someone with at least SOME technical background, Guy Boucher would have been a nice assistant for him. Although maybe I would have complained about making another buddy hire haha

We all loved Kirk as a person but I think most of us soured on him as a coach towards the end of his 2nd stint, but an associate coach who can draw plays up is a serious need.

The special teams will be the death of Burrows, sooner than later. Anderson is still on PP1 and he can't complete a pass. 1-3-1 formation that is super easy to defend, all the PK has to do is babysit Caufield and nobody else can score. Point shots get blocked and all of the cross ice passes get intercepted, we need more movement, everyone camps out in their spot.

 

[Miller Time]

Can’t wait for the beginnings of the attacks on MSL when he’s been given a pile of shit to try and turn into gold.

Yup...

Crazy how people with minimal technical understanding of the sport feel confident to question his technical expertise based on stat watching lol

Even more crazy for anyone with even a bit of leadership or group dynamics understanding to not appreciate the masterful job he's done. Few professional sport teams could endure the terrible results from the past two seasons while maintaining such high morale & clear evidence of buy in and engagement.

Heck, Ducharme lost the group in a few months of a season off the rails after the group had just reached the cup finals.

Remains to be seen how well his coaching effectiveness translates to guiding the team once the roster talent is at a playoff/cup contending level, but thus far, he's done a great job. (I say this even though I too can nitpick on a bunch of things I dislike... Easy to armchair lineup and in-game decisions when one has zero insight into the inner dynamics of the group nor definitive clarity on the mid/long term intentions.)

 

[sandviper]

It’s grim because we don’t have an exit velocity. When your GM skips on Michkov and then declares Reinbacher to be a “D2”, do you expect there to be boiling frothy air of optimism?

Even if everything goes right— Reinbacher, Hutson, Slafkovsky, etc— we will still not be a championship quality team.

They need to add a lot more potential skill to this team, they need to develop the actual skills of the players a lot more.

If Suzuki has another 60ish point year, what does that mean for our hopes and dreams?

Just because they’re young doesn’t mean they’ll get significantly better. You need skill. The Habs don’t seek skill they prioritize other things.

The thing is, we’re probably not even halfway through the rebuild. Slaf, Hutson, Reinbacher and Suzuki may or may not be enough, but we have to see who they add in the next couple years. Rebuilds take a long ass time and unless we draft a generational player, this doesn’t turn around quick.

As for not seeking skill, Hutson is the very definition of pure skill.

Sure, they need more elite talent. Could that come from within or drafted in the next few years? Who knows, but the losing will continue as that’s what young teams do. You hope to see progression of course, but we need to accept there’s no playoffs for sure this year and next.