Are We Headed in the Right Direction?

[BaseballCoach]

Which is stupid as I'd put money down that Cooley > Suzuki and Michkov > CC in 5 years time.

Suzuki was a 13OA and Caufield a 15OA.

It is very possible that Cooley works out better than a 13OA and Michkov better than a 15OA, but that does NOT mean that Cooley is ahead of Slaf in a re-draft nor that Michkov is ahead of Reinbacher in a re-draft.

Those are actually separate debates. Maybe they are, but it has nothing to do with Suzuki and Caufield.

 

[morhilane]

Could you (or anyone) please tell me what our system is?

Habs aren't using systems the way you are thinking about it.

Their even strength defense "system" use man-to-man. This season added some new rules to it, that the players are is still getting used to. Apparently, Savard said it was similar to what he was doing back in Tampa.

Elsewhere, the Habs use the normal hockey structures and try to do positionless hockey. Some of the players don't have the awareness/IQ for it.

MSL said last week that they haven't really worked on special units yet. They are starting that this season.

MSL has been implementing things little by little, not all at once. The completed implementation in all facets of the game probably won't be seen until next season.

 

[Gravity]

Suzuki was a 13OA and Caufield a 15OA.

It is very possible that Cooley works out better than a 13OA and Michkov better than a 15OA, but that does NOT mean that Cooley is ahead of Slaf in a re-draft nor that Michkov is ahead of Reinbacher in a re-draft.

Those are actually separate debates. Maybe they are, but it has nothing to do with Suzuki and Caufield.

What? The argument was that we passed on Michkov/Cooley because we already had Suzuki/CC.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What? The argument was that we passed on Michkov/Cooley because we already had Suzuki/CC.

.... for size reasons. Unless we move Suzuki and Caufield out, the performance level of Cooley and Michkov are not relevant here.

By the way, the size thing is not my argument anyway. I did not love Cooley's overall game beyond the slick plays when he has time and spacve, and I don't find Suzuki small at 208 lbs. I would have been fine with the club taking Michkov if they thought he was the BPA. But they don't. They preferred a potential minute-eating first pairing two-way D, and having lived through and enjoyed the Big Three era, I have no problem aiming at that goal.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

.... for size reasons. Unless we move Suzuki and Caufield out, the performance level of Cooley and Michkov are not relevant here.

By the way, the size thing is not my argument anyway. I did not love Cooley's overall game beyond the slick plays when he has time and spacve, and I don't find Suzuki small at 208 lbs. I would have been fine with the club taking Michkov if they thought he was the BPA. But they don't. They preferred a potential minute-eating first pairing two-way D, and having lived through and enjoyed the Big Three era, I have no problem aiming at that goal.

That's not the potential he was most listed at draft. Potential #2-3. Potential first pairing makes it sound like his potential is #1-2, but that's not what most listings said.

The hyperbolic qualifiers don't help either. Any top 4 dmen can be said to be a minute muncher.

 

[Habbietat]

we got a second line winger (IMO) and a 2nd pairing D with the #1 and #5 picks, probably not what people had in mind when they were thinking of tanking, like come on, 2 years of absolute shit and we cant get a PPG forward out of it? Reeks of smartest man in the room syndrome that we will regret down the line

 

[Deebs]

Which is stupid as I'd put money down that Cooley > Suzuki and Michkov > CC in 5 years time.

In terms of what...points?

 

[Whitesnake]

The only reason people openly say we're headed in the right direction is because we moved on from a very bad one. And because as we always think before we live it, we believe we have a better pool of prospects. Until proven otherwise.

For me, until they proove to me that they pick the best player before they pick a need, I will not be convinced. Before we know that our key players are not injured every 2 games, there's no proofs it's the right direction.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

we got a second line winger (IMO) and a 2nd pairing D with the #1 and #5 picks, probably not what people had in mind when they were thinking of tanking, like come on, 2 years of absolute shit and we cant get a PPG forward out of it? Reeks of smartest man in the room syndrome that we will regret down the line

Just gotta tank MORE till you cant miss

 

[Habbietat]

The only reason people openly say we're headed in the right direction is because we moved on from a very bad one. And because as we always think before we live it, we believe we have a better pool of prospects. Until proven otherwise.

For me, until they proove to me that they pick the best player before they pick a need, I will not be convinced. Before we know that our key players are not injured every 2 games, there's no proofs it's the right direction.

this only proves right as the years go on, people can think we have this and that but until they do it IDGAF

Just gotta tank MORE till you cant miss

agreed 2 more years at the bottom will be good

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

In terms of what...points?

League scoring is wayyyy up and yet we are still going to be one of the 5 teams in the entire league with no PPG players for like the 18th time in 20 years , plus ça change plus c'est pareil hahaha.

 

[Habbietat]

League scoring is wayyyy up and yet we are still going to be one of the 5 teams in the entire league with no PPG players for like the 18th time in 20 years , plus ça change plus c'est pareil hahaha.

whoa hold your horses! Lets get a 70 point player first, slow steps

 

[rahad]

I trust Hughes and MSL alot but im scared that we don’t have the right guys to lead the scouting department with Lapointe and Bobrov. Im afraid that taking Slaf over Cooley, Mesar over Kulich and Reinbacher over Michkov is gonna bit us in the ass big time!!

We would have probably rushed Cooley into the NHL at 18. We are just unlucky. We would not have this discussion, if we drafted #5 in 2022 and #1 in 2023 draft.

 

[Whitesnake]

Thing is...it's really as if we play in a league of our own. Yep, we have Hutson and Fowler coming. 2 very legitimate prospect. Engstrom seems a really solid No5. Fine.

Then....you start looking at THE REST of the league. And you know that improving will NOT be enough. It,s better. But not enough as you don't play against the old you.

.... for size reasons. Unless we move Suzuki and Caufield out, the performance level of Cooley and Michkov are not relevant here.

By the way, the size thing is not my argument anyway. I did not love Cooley's overall game beyond the slick plays when he has time and spacve, and I don't find Suzuki small at 208 lbs. I would have been fine with the club taking Michkov if they thought he was the BPA. But they don't. They preferred a potential minute-eating first pairing two-way D, and having lived through and enjoyed the Big Three era, I have no problem aiming at that goal.

Which brings the question...why not move Suzuki and Caufield if you have to? What is it with having players....and just sticking with them till death do us part? If you have the possibility to improve even more...why not take it?

 

[Tyson]

As long as David Savard is paired with Mike Matheson the tank will be alive an well. Why not separate the only two vets on D? Matheson has horrible with Savard. Savard is a bottom pairing D at this stage of his career.

 

[BaseballCoach]

we got a second line winger (IMO) and a 2nd pairing D with the #1 and #5 picks, probably not what people had in mind when they were thinking of tanking, like come on, 2 years of absolute shit and we cant get a PPG forward out of it? Reeks of smartest man in the room syndrome that we will regret down the line

Supposing it were true that Slafkovsky tops out at 35-40 goals and only 75 points per season, and that neither Cooley nor Wright become ppg players either, why criticize Hughes for that?

Is it his fault that the benefits of tanking are usually oversold?

As for the value of a ppg forward, would you agree that Serge Savard, a minute-eating two-way D who did NOT run a power play, was more valuable than Steve Shutt, who had four seasons of 45-60 goals and nine straight 31+ goal seasons and was ppg around 5 times?

As long as David Savard is paired with Mike Matheson the tank will be alive an well. Why not separate the only two vets on D? Matheson has horrible with Savard. Savard is a bottom pairing D at this stage of his career.

With Barron back, put him with Matheson like he ended last year well.

Kovacevic and Xhekaj
Savard with Harris

 

[Tyson]

Supposing it were true that Slafkovsky tops out at 35-40 goals and only 75 points per season, and that neither Cooley nor Wright become ppg players either, why criticize Hughes for that?

Is it his fault that the benefits of tanking are usually oversold?

As for the value of a ppg forward, would you agree that Serge Savard, a minute-eating two-way D who did NOT run a power play, was more valuable than Steve Shutt, who had four seasons of 45-60 goals and nine total 35+ goal seasons and was ppg around 5 times?


With Barron back, put him with Matheson like he ended last year well.

Kovacevic and Xhekaj
Savard with Harris

Coach, why was Barron not in the line up through 3 games? He was on pace for a 30 point season last year as a rookie. No other D walks the line like he does and yet, doesn't get a sniff on the PP. I am having serious doubts about golden boy Marty and his many inspirational quotes.

 

[Habs]

Coach, why was Barron not in the line up through 3 games? He was on pace for a 30 point season last year as a rookie. No other D walks the line like he does and yet, doesn't get a sniff on the PP. I am having serious doubts about golden boy Marty and his many inspirational quotes.

I just want to know why Harris has a job in the NHL, he sucks

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Just gotta tank MORE till you cant miss

It's gonna be a natural progression. Either what we have succeeds or their failures brings us more top picks, thus insuring that at some point, they'll hit on something if they haven't already.

 

[Tyson]

I just want to know why Harris has a job in the NHL, he sucks

LD Harris is not better than RD Barron on the right side, I am not all in either on Jordan Harris. He will go the way of Will Butcher and Victor Mete before long.

 

[Habbietat]

Supposing it were true that Slafkovsky tops out at 35-40 goals and only 75 points per season, and that neither Cooley nor Wright become ppg players either, why criticize Hughes for that?

Is it his fault that the benefits of tanking are usually oversold?

As for the value of a ppg forward, would you agree that Serge Savard, a minute-eating two-way D who did NOT run a power play, was more valuable than Steve Shutt, who had four seasons of 45-60 goals and nine total 35+ goal seasons and was ppg around 5 times?

I get making this argument when we have forwards who can put up more than 66 points in a season and multiple of them but I aint there yet, I see the pendulum completely on the defence side right now when our forward prospects is almost completely bare and void of elite talent

 

[BaseballCoach]

Thing is...it's really as if we play in a league of our own. Yep, we have Hutson and Fowler coming. 2 very legitimate prospect. Engstrom seems a really solid No5. Fine.

Then....you start looking at THE REST of the league. And you know that improving will NOT be enough. It,s better. But not enough as you don't play against the old you.


Which brings the question...why not move Suzuki and Caufield if you have to? What is it with having players....and just sticking with them till death do us part? If you have the possibility to improve even more...why not take it?

I don't believe in untouchables really. So do we have an offer for Caufield that clearly improves the team?

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't believe in untouchables really. So do we have an offer for Caufield that clearly improves the team?

Not my point. My point is that the idea that we shouldn't draft great players because we are already small is not the way to build a team. You draft the very best players. You trade to build a team.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not my point. My point is that the idea that we shouldn't draft great players because we are already small is not the way to build a team. You draft the very best players. You trade to build a team.

Oh, I fully agree. You don't shy away from top talent due to size.

That being said, size does factor into evaluation of a player. So does speed, agility and a number of other physical factors. But once you decide who the best player is, you draft him.

 

[Whitesnake]

Oh, I fully agree. You don't shy away from top talent due to size.

That being said, size does factor into evaluation of a player. So does speed, agility and a number of other physical factors. But once you decide who the best player is, you draft himk.

When a player, let say like Benson, is such elusive, talented, strong on his skates, FOR ME, I absolutely do not see the size. At all. It's not a factor. When I see Kidney, Mesar it strongly should be. When I see Hutson or Farrell, at one point in a draft, those guys despite their shortcomings are automatically BPA.

So size shouldn't be looked simply as a question of height. I look at strength, balance and elusiveness to avoid being at the wrong way of hits.