Are We Headed in the Right Direction?

[hvac412]

It’s grim because we don’t have an exit velocity. When your GM skips on Michkov and then declares Reinbacher to be a “D2”, do you expect there to be boiling frothy air of optimism?

Even if everything goes right— Reinbacher, Hutson, Slafkovsky, etc— we will still not be a championship quality team.

They need to add a lot more potential skill to this team, they need to develop the actual skills of the players a lot more.

If Suzuki has another 60ish point year, what does that mean for our hopes and dreams?

Just because they’re young doesn’t mean they’ll get significantly better. You need skill. The Habs don’t seek skill they prioritize other things.

And then theirs the confusing part of bringing in a totally inexperienced coach ,keeping a special teams coach that hasn’t worked out and another inexperienced defensive coach,do they really think this is a way to develop a winning product,all these question marks for the most storied franchise in hockey.

 

[JRichard]

It’s grim because we don’t have an exit velocity. When your GM skips on Michkov and then declares Reinbacher to be a “D2”, do you expect there to be boiling frothy air of optimism?

Even if everything goes right— Reinbacher, Hutson, Slafkovsky, etc— we will still not be a championship quality team.

They need to add a lot more potential skill to this team, they need to develop the actual skills of the players a lot more.

If Suzuki has another 60ish point year, what does that mean for our hopes and dreams?

Just because they’re young doesn’t mean they’ll get significantly better. You need skill. The Habs don’t seek skill they prioritize other things.

Maybe its not unique to Mtl and yes Gretzky was traded but it strikes me that most of our top guys have been added at a discount. Suzuki, Dach, Newhook came in quite cheap, Caufield « dropped » at 11. Montambeault was waived. Sherif undrafted, Harvey-Pinard, Evans are 7th rounders. Monahan was damaged goods.

We had high hopes for Primeau a 7th rounder given by Philly who had the kid in the backyard.

Could it be we are having unreasonable expectations when other teams passed on them or let them go while young?

Only players not in this pattern would be Guhle mid-1st, Slaf 1st overall in a weak (?) draft.

edit: checked Philly lineup. They only have Tippett as a comparable. He was acquired « cheap » for Giroux. Pretty sure Philly valued the 1st more. Reminds me of Suzuki (Pacioretty). They dont expect him to be top guy. All main players are 1st drafted by org. Even their goalie situation is different. Hart early first and all others have been drafted in 2nd,3rd which is early for goalies: Ersson, Sandstrom, Kolosov and 2 more last draft in 2nd-3rd. I dunno…

 

[themilosh]

I think Hugo has done an amazing job with what he was given, and almost every move he has done has been good-great. I've mentioned in a previous thread that the only snafu to date has come from the scouting departments. It appears there are several missing algorithms (metrics) or weighted scores our Scouting department has created..

The NHL has so much parity that there is barely a gap in what makes a team bottom 10 to top 10.
top 6 F leaguewide: is where teams get the edge
Bottom 6 F leaguewide: equal across the board
top 4 D leaguewide: big edge
Goalie: relatively equal.

the difference(s) can really come down to injuries. But the biggest edge comes with player cohesion, and a solid captain. Systems are overly stated, the key is to create a system around what you have and not have players play "into" your system - as this by default reduces their effective draft score.

The system that gives the biggest edge comes in Special Teams. There should literally be a full time scouting report for each teams SH and which players are ideal to exploit the other teams D. We need a PP system that is interchangeable (since only CC is elite), for the most part there are some teams with heavy net presence: ok, so then we should place Xhekai in front of the net to disrupt two players while taking a beating. That leaves 4 of our players against 2.. You don;t need a SYSTEM for that, you need passing, creativity and misdirection.. That comes from the mind, and player cohesion.

I think MSL is the perfect coach to create player cohesion, I'm not sure if Suzuki is the best captain, but I think he is decent.

Our team probably has the worst top6 in the league, only 1 elite player. we need 2 Elite forwards to be a playoff team. we need 3 elite forwards to be a SC team.

 

[LaP]

Why maybe is not a choice. My answer to that question is maybe we will know in 2-3. They are doing the right thing but they still need to draft the right players and we will know for sure in 2-3 years only.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It’s grim because we don’t have an exit velocity. When your GM skips on Michkov and then declares Reinbacher to be a “D2”, do you expect there to be boiling frothy air of optimism?

We did skip on Michkov, but it does not mean we skipped on what some people DREAM Michkov to be.

Even if everything goes right— Reinbacher, Hutson, Slafkovsky, etc— we will still not be a championship quality team.

Right, we are not at 11 strong players yet.

They need to add a lot more potential skill to this team, they need to develop the actual skills of the players a lot more.

Correct.

If Suzuki has another 60ish point year, what does that mean for our hopes and dreams?

Just because they’re young doesn’t mean they’ll get significantly better. You need skill. The Habs don’t seek skill they prioritize other things.

I don't know how you can say that the Habs don't seek skill. It makes no sense unless it is just another complaint that we passed on one guy - Michkov.

Hutson was a shot at skill. Engstrom as well. When we look at late round picks, they seem to consistently look for guys with upside.

We traded for Matheson, Dach and Newhook, all former first round picks.

We traded for and re-upped Monahan, a former 6OA. We got Pearson for depth, who was another first rounder, and he gives us a chance to get assets at the TDL.

 

[morhilane]

Maybe its not unique to Mtl and yes Gretzky was traded but it strikes me that most of our top guys have been added at a discount. Suzuki, Dach, Newhook came in quite cheap, Caufield « dropped » at 11. Montambeault was waived. Sherif undrafted, Harvey-Pinard, Evans are 7th rounders. Monahan was damaged goods.

We had high hopes for Primeau a 7th rounder given by Philly who had the kid in the backyard.

Could it be we are having unreasonable expectations when other teams passed on them or let them go while young?

Only players not in this pattern would be Guhle mid-1st, Slaf 1st overall in a weak (?) draft.

Some of the players you listed are stop gap to start the rebuild with (pretty much anyone older than Suzuki). Early rebuilding teams are always loaded with those until prospects mature and replace them.

The roster will go through quite a few players in the next few seasons.

 

[admiralcadillac]

You seem to operate on the notion that players, coaches, and GMs are all immune from criticism and should be worshipped for failing. You have more energy to criticize fans who are critical of the tank than for the team that’s failing across the board.

I don’t understand whatever gave you that idea but even a tanking team could and should have good coaching.

There’s a difference between criticism of certain decisions and asking for a coach to be fired. Also, look at the team. It’s an unpolished turd.

 

[ReHabs]

There’s a difference between criticism of certain decisions and asking for a coach to be fired. Also, look at the team. It’s an unpolished turd.

So, in your opinion is there any room of criticism of the coach and his team and their decisions? If so, what do you think about fans vocalizing it -- does it bother you?

 

[ReHabs]

We did skip on Michkov, but it does not mean we skipped on what some people DREAM Michkov to be.

Same 'dream' applies to the players we did pick. Reinbacher, the dream of the next Weber, versus the next Petry, versus the next Tom Poti (random example). Every prospect is a dream. It is what it is.

I don't know how you can say that the Habs don't seek skill. It makes no sense unless it is just another complaint that we passed on one guy - Michkov.

Cooley, Nemec, and Jiricek were more skilled than Slafkovsky at the time of their draft - as was Wright. Slaf was picked for his 'package' -- if he was more skilled he wouldn't have struggled to produce in Liiga.

Hutson was a shot at skill. Engstrom as well. When we look at late round picks, they seem to consistently look for guys with upside.

Later picks are all over the place -- Florian Xhekaj has no skill whatsoever. I respect Hutson very much but we don't need to go tit for tat.

With the 1OA and 5OA it seems like we've not picked the most skilled player available -- do you disagree?

We traded for Matheson, Dach and Newhook, all former first round picks.

Matheson skilled NHL sure. Dach and Newhook were pseudo-busts who were cut loose, they were not established NHL skill players at the time of their acquisition.

We traded for and re-upped Monahan, a former 6OA. We got Pearson for depth, who was another first rounder, and he gives us a chance to get assets at the TDL.

Monahan was a cap dump, he would've never been acquired if he was healthy and not a cap calamity for Calgary. Pearson is not a skill NHL player, his draft position over a decade ago is irrelevant. You could say Joel Armia and Jarred Tinordi are skill players too if you want to frame it by their draft round.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Same 'dream' applies to the players we did pick. Reinbacher, the dream of the next Weber, versus the next Petry, versus the next Tom Poti (random example). Every prospect is a dream. It is what it is.

Exactly. It is your opinion that Michkov's skills are more valuable than Reinbacher's. Yet 6 teams passed on this supposedly generational player according to his biggest fans.

Cooley, Nemec, and Jiricek were more skilled than Slafkovsky at the time of their draft - as was Wright. Slaf was picked for his 'package' -- if he was more skilled he wouldn't have struggled to produce in Liiga.

None of Cooley, Nemec, Jiricek or Wright produced at the International stage like Slaf did. Indeed none did better than Slafkovsky in a pro league. Half the scouts in the NHL had Slaf as their first choice, the other half were split between two players. Again, it is unfair to say the Habs were consciously shunning skill.

Later picks are all over the place -- Florian Xhekaj has no skill whatsoever. I respect Hutson very much but we don't need to go tit for tat.

Florian Xhekaj was a home run swing as opposed to drafting some 'safe' player. And while it is a small sample size, Florian has more than doubled his previous ppg number this year. Perhaps they saw some skill in him?

With the 1OA and 5OA it seems like we've not picked the most skilled player available -- do you disagree?

Absolutely, from the point of view of the club and its scouts.

Matheson skilled NHL sure. Dach and Newhook were pseudo-busts who were cut loose, they were not established NHL skill players at the time of their acquisition.

Dach and Newhook were not pseudo-busts. Dach had a great start to his career and was messed up by injuries and coaching decisioins. Recall how well Caufield did under Duchartme versus MSL. I watched Dach for 3 years and was THRILLED the moment we acquired him. The skill was highly evident.

Newhook is a lesser but still skilled player. He was drafted 16th and is better than 16th in life to date points per game from his draft year. Whether you saw his abilities or not, the Habs consicously took a chance on his SKILLS. They did not get him to be 'good in the room' or 'to be a solid 4th liner' or for just ONE skill like say faceoffs or fisticuffs.

You may also be guiltyt of confirmation bias. Sure Matheson is conisdered skilld now,m but after his first couple of yearsw in thge league, he was as much of a risk as Dach was, maybe more. So you canM't say Matheson 'sure' but be oppoised to the Dach trade for not acquiring "proven' skill (at age 21!!)

More importantly, to claim that neither Dach nor Newhood were established NHL skill players is kind of ridiculous when we are talking about moves to acquire players, and the draft of unproven players is kind of the CRUX of the effort. This is just you arguing for the sake of arguing.

Monahan was a cap dump, he would've never been acquired if he was healthy and not a cap calamity for Calgary. Pearson is not a skill NHL player, his draft position over a decade ago is irrelevant. You could say Joel Armia and Jarred Tinordi are skill players too if you want to frame it by their draft round.

Monahan was indeed a cap dump, but we acquired him for skills, used him in a skill role, and re-signed him to have versatile proven skill on the squad. Even if the skill is traded for draft picks or prospects, the whole point is that this is possible due to Moneyhands' SKILLS. No one expects us to get a decent pick for Armia or Gallagher.

Pearson is a two-time 20+ goal scorer. A lesser skill level than Monahan but that shot of his is elite.

Hughes has targeted skill even in the cases where the gamble did not work out. Fetching Dadonov for a pure cap dump, and then giving Gurianov a shot were both swings at skill.

Your claim that the Habs do not desire to acquire skill is not convincing, pantoute.

 

[ReHabs]

Exactly. It is your opinion that Michkov's skills are more valuable than Reinbacher's. Yet 6 teams passed on this supposedly generational player according to his biggest fans.

Four teams skipped on Reinbacher. All of them needed a d-man and skipped on Reinbacher. Supposedly legendary performance in the Swiss league, and he was skipped over by FOUR teams. Can you believe it? What was wrong with him?

None of Cooley, Nemec, Jioriocek or Wright produced at the International stage like Slaf did. Indeed none did better than Slafkovsky in a pro league. Half the scouts in the NHL had Slaf as their first choice, the other half were split between two players. Again, it is unfair to say the Habs were consciously shunning skill.

All of them did better in their league season than Slafkovsky. Cooley is smoking Slaf this year in the NHL, for instance.

I know half the scouts think the Habs would take Slaf with the 1OA, it doesn't make Slaf the most skilled player in his draft cohort.

Florian Xhekaj was a home run swing as opposed to drafting some 'safe' player. And while it is a small sample size, Florian has more than doubled his previous ppg number this year. P:erhaps they saw some skill in him?

They saw skill in Slafkovsky as well -- dubious.

Absolutely, from the point of view of the club and its scouts.

Agree to disagree. No point continuing this.

Dach and Newhook were not pseudo-busts. Dach had a great start to his career and was messed up by injuries and coaching decisioins. Recall how well Caufield did under Duchartme versus MSL. I watched Dach for 3 years and was THRILLED the moment we acquired him. The skill was highly evident.

Newhook is a lesser but still skilled player. He was drafted 16th and is better than 16th in life to date points per game from his draft year. Whether you saw his abilities or not, the Habs consicously took a chance on his SKILLS. They did not get him to be 'good in the room' or 'to be a solid 4th liner' or for just ONE skill like say faceoffs or fisticuffs.

They gambled on them. You wanna split hairs on definitions sure but neither were established, reliable, known quantities as NHL players.

You may also be guiltyt of confirmation bias. Sure Matheson is conisdered skilld now,m but after his first couple of yearsw in thge league, he was as much of a risk as Dach was, maybe more. So you canM't say Matheson 'sure' but be oppoised to the Dach trade for not acquiring "proven' skill (at age 21!!)


More importantly, to claim that neither Dach nor Newhood were established NHL skill players is kind of ridiculous when we are talking about moves to acquire players, and the draft of unproven players is kind of the CRUX of the effort. This is just you arguing for the sake of arguing.

Matheson at the time of his acquisition was a known quantity -- Dach and Newhook were not.

Monahan was indeed a cap dump, but we acquired him for skills, used him in a skill role, and re-signed him to have versatile proven skill on the squad. Even if the skill is traded for draft picks or prospects, the whole point is that this is possible due to Moneyhands' SKILLS. No one expects us to get a decent pick for Armia or Gallagher.

We acquired Monahan because he came with a first round pick. Come on.

Pearson is a two-time 20+ goal scorer. A lesser skill level than Monahan but that shot of his is elite.

You're really stretching it if you think Pearson is a skill player acquisition.

Hughes has targeted skill even in the cases where the gamble did not work out. Fetching Dadonov for a pure cap dump, and then giving Gurianov a shot were both swings at skill.

Your claim that the Habs do not desire to acquire skill is not convincing, pantoute.

Yeah let's agree to disagree.

 

[BaseballCoach]

All of them did better in their league season than Slafkovsky. Cooley is smoking Slaf this year in the NHL, for instance.

The thing is you did not campaign for Cooley last year, it was Wright. The Habs went for a skill player, the semi-consensus pick, and whether it clicks or not says NOTHING about any conscious desire to NOT target skill. That was your claim, that the Habs did not want to acquire skill. And this when 3 picks later they selected Hutson with a home run swing.

They saw skill in Slafkovsky as well -- dubious.

Florian was picked in the fourth round. Habs went off the board to take him over a safe bottom line potential guy. Xhekaj has doubled his ppg in a small sample size so far.

They gambled on them (Dach and Newhook). You wanna split hairs on definitions sure but neither were established, reliable, known quantities as NHL players.

Jeezus, yes they gambled. They gambled on SKILL!

Matheson at the time of his acquisition was a known quantity -- Dach and Newhook were not.

If Dach was not a known quantity after 3 years in the League, then neither is Michkov or Cooley.

We acquired Monahan because he came with a first round pick. Come on.

True, but his skill was touted the minute he was acquired, and then we re-signed him due to his skill level despite many obsevers not thinking Hughes would do that.

You're really stretching it if you think Pearson is a skill player acquisition.

Considering what we gave up for him, it was a gamble on skill to take on a $3.25M contract and hope his skills would hsow better in this new environment.

 

[angusyoung]

Any bright lights so far,or at least a glimmering flicker? Got some catching up to do to see whats what.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Last summer I asked the question about the direction we were headed. 80 percent felt we were headed in the right direction. 20 percent did not.

Anyone change their mind after this season?

 

[BaseballCoach]

Last summer I asked the question about the direction we were headed. 80 percent felt we were headed in the right direction. 20 percent did not.

Anyone change their mind after this season?

Not me. Was positive both last summer and now.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Later picks are all over the place -- Florian Xhekaj has no skill whatsoever. I respect Hutson very much but we don't need to go tit for tat.

Florian has progressed remarkably for a 4th round pick. Already playing in the AHL less than 12 months after being drafted at 19.

With the 1OA and 5OA it seems like we've not picked the most skilled player available -- do you disagree?

Our 2022 first overall is trending well and seems skilled, while our 2023 5OA is playing in the AHL at 19 and is a plus player in a defenceman role, not too shabby.

Matheson skilled NHL sure.

You're minimizing. This was a home run trade. Mike is 6.5 years younger than Petry, is more than twice as good, and has a 23% smaller cap hit than Jeff had when he was here. Even the guy we kept over Poehling (Evans) is the better overall player of the two.

Dach and Newhook were pseudo-busts who were cut loose, they were not established NHL skill players at the time of their acquisition.

Dach had a very good 2022-23 season, might have been our best player in our last camp, and he will hopefully have a chance to show off his size-skill combination next year. We don't miss Romanov too much.

Newhook has made a big leap from age 22 to 23. The trade for him was a good risk-reward gamble.

Monahan was a cap dump, he would've never been acquired if he was healthy and not a cap calamity for Calgary.

I'm betting you did not think Monahan would play at a 2C level, put up 26 goals and 60 points and play every game this year. Calgary's calamity was PAYING to let him go to make cap room for the huge Kadri and Huberdeau contracts.

Pearson is not a skill NHL player, his draft position over a decade ago is irrelevant.

Pearson was a cap dump that provided a small chance of being productive. However, he was not. No loss really as it was better for Roy to develop in Laval, while Heineman and Farrell are still not ready.

You could say Joel Armia and Jarred Tinordi are skill players too if you want to frame it by their draft round.

I'm not sure if peoiple realize that Joel Armia has had an average career to date for a 16-OA pick.

In the 40 years from 1966 to 2015, Armia is 21st in games played, 15th in goals scored and 20th in points (153) among all 16-OAs.

It's blasphemy to put Armia in the same category as Tinordi, who has only two more points lifetime than Ken Dryden did.

 

[CanadienShark]

Last summer I asked the question about the direction we were headed. 80 percent felt we were headed in the right direction. 20 percent did not.

Anyone change their mind after this season?

Feeling even better now. We have a good looking path to a good team already and the team is fun to watch.

 

[HuGort]

This draft could take us even higher. Most excited I been about team in 30 years.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

HuGo has done an amazing job with what he inherited. Mind you, there were a lot of pieces that had decent value after that playoffs run that took them to the Finals. Obviously, lots of work remains to be done. It all depends on what all these prospects can bring to the table. Gallagher, Price, Anderson, Armia, Savard and Dvorak will all be gone in 3 years or so. There's value in trading Matheson.

He made some mistakes, but he's still a rookie. Newhook was a bit of an overpayment and extending Allen are obvious ones. Maybe he held on a little too long on some players, but getting two firsts for Money for free is the icing on top. He needs to keep doing these type of moves, because there's plenty of capspace.