Are the Rangers too soft?

[Samuel Culper III]

I'm not advocating our guys necessarily copying EXACTLY what just transpired in the Bruins game, but if you're watching the Bruins/Panthers, Lucic just got semi-crosschecked/pushed into the boards from behind by Mike Weaver. There was no call on Weaver, though there probably could have been, but it wasn't a really, really bad hit (probably should have been 2). Regardless, Lucic got up and rocked Weaver with a crosscheck of his own and then went right after him and tried to rip his head off. It resulted in a double minor against Lucic and it looks like Lucic got the boot as well. Again, not advocating this exactly, but as bad of a penalty as it is to take, Lucic sent a loud, clear "you don't mess with me our my boys" to the Panthers with it and, honestly, when you're down like we were last night and McDonagh gets boarded the way he did, that's something I'd love to see Girardi or Boyle or Staal or Pyatt or somebody do to send that message in retaliation. I don't care about the penalty. In the Bruins game, it's more selfish of Lucic because there's still 20 minutes to go in a 2 goal game, but in our game, when you know we're going to lose, after the McDonagh board or the Biron play, somebody should just suck it up and take the penalty.

 

[Carl33]

time to unleash the beast...

bring Mclrath into the big apple!

 

[Leetch3]

everyone points toward the loss of dubinsky and prust as being a big part of the grit, toughness and character this team has lost...but that's only part of it imo.

here is a clip from last season against montreal...blunden comes off the bench and nails dubinsky...and all 4 rangers on the ice immediately jump in. it wasn't dubinsky, prust, and rupp jumping in. the first guy to jump in was ryan callahan, followed by sauer, richards and del zotto. yeah even richards jumped in and they all stood up for each other...



and they stood up for each other cause last year the team as a FAMILY. they would bleed for each other and the team toughness came from not 1 or 2 guys but from every guy knowing that every other guy on the ice had their backs.

this year there is no bond. they aren't even a team no less a family. no one has anyone's back

btw boy do we miss sauer

 

[Riverdale]

^ So true

 

[ThisYearsModel]

They are worse than soft, they are scared. Not scared of the opponents, but scared of the Tortorella response, which is to bench them and trash them to the press after they take a retaliatory penalty that might result in their losing a game. So, we instead have an ever expanding list of players on IR.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

They are worse than soft, they are scared. Not scared of the opponents, but scared of the Tortorella response, which is to bench them and trash them to the press after they take a retaliatory penalty that might result in their losing a game. So, we instead have an ever expanding list of players on IR.

here is a clip from last season against montreal...blunden comes off the bench and nails dubinsky...and all 4 rangers on the ice immediately jump in. it wasn't dubinsky, prust, and rupp jumping in. the first guy to jump in was ryan callahan, followed by sauer, richards and del zotto. yeah even richards jumped in and they all stood up for each other...

and they stood up for each other cause last year the team as a FAMILY. they would bleed for each other and the team toughness came from not 1 or 2 guys but from every guy knowing that every other guy on the ice had their backs.

this year there is no bond. they aren't even a team no less a family. no one has anyone's back

These two things are great points plus losing Prust, Dubi, and to a lesser extent Rupp and you've got your answer.

I would love to see some big organizational changes but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[broadwayblue]

I would love to see some big organizational changes but I'm not holding my breath.

Don't. There won't be. I would argue that there shouldn't be, but opinions are like @$$&*)%!

 

[Orr Nightmare]

These two things are great points plus losing Prust, Dubi, and to a lesser extent Rupp and you've got your answer.

I would love to see some big organizational changes but I'm not holding my breath.[/QUOTE]

I love Gordie and Gorton but I watched the Ottawa game and they have just as many injuries as we do...but the kids they called up where all big, nasty and pretty skilled...the year we drafted Yogan(good pick) in the 4th round..Flyers took McGinn(better pick)...when we selected Bourque(ok pick) in the 3rd round of 2009 draft...Marcus Foligno(very good pick) was drafted in the 4th round and Jordan Nolan (very good pick) and to a lesser extent Anders Lee were drafted in the 6th round.

It seems that Gordie's strategy is to take the most skilled guy @ that spot instead of taking chances on this big power forward types. Krieider has all the making of a power forward but doesn't have snarl...enough with Thomas, Bourque's, McColgan, Horak's types and lets start drafting the bigger kids with sandpaper...McIlrath has taken so much s**t on this board but the Rangers will need him even more than they thought.

 

[OverTheCap]

Tortorella clarified his retaliation policy 3 years ago - he will not penalize players if they are sticking up for their teammates. Last year's team certainly had no issue protecting their teammates under Torts.

This is from 2010:

"Not only Dubi there for Gabby, but any situation where one of our players is taken advantage of, that must be addressed right away. That's part of the team concept and camaraderie we're trying to put together here."

Tortorella spent much of the year preaching discipline and the necessity of staying out of the box. But much of the time the message seemed to be mixed, or perhaps misinterpreted by the athletes who often were reluctant to become engaged on behalf of a teammate, for there is a distinction between a good penalty and a bad penalty.

"I don't think I was misunderstood, because there were different times during the year when the situation was addressed," Tortorella said. "But to be clear, the extra penalty that Dubi got in that situation against Toronto, that's the type of penalty you kill off.

"Our players are going to look after each other. That's the kind of team I want and that's the type of team we'll have. We're going to protect one another. We will not allow our top players to be targets."

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/torts_clarifies_retaliation_policy_g02u9pEvTJgajAgoFcuT2H

We had a lot of turnover over the summer, we lost some homegrown guys and some players who epitomized the Rangers' hard-working identity. This team has yet to forge a collective identity. They better do so quickly or our opponents will continue to exploit this weakness.

 

[BB58]

These two things are great points plus losing Prust, Dubi, and to a lesser extent Rupp and you've got your answer.

I would love to see some big organizational changes but I'm not holding my breath.[/QUOTE]

I love Gordie and Gorton but I watched the Ottawa game and they have just as many injuries as we do...but the kids they called up where all big, nasty and pretty skilled...the year we drafted Yogan(good pick) in the 4th round..Flyers took McGinn(better pick)...when we selected Bourque(ok pick) in the 3rd round of 2009 draft...Marcus Foligno(very good pick) was drafted in the 4th round and Jordan Nolan (very good pick) and to a lesser extent Anders Lee were drafted in the 6th round.

It seems that Gordie's strategy is to take the most skilled guy @ that spot instead of taking chances on this big power forward types. Krieider has all the making of a power forward but doesn't have snarl...enough with Thomas, Bourque's, McColgan, Horak's types and lets start drafting the bigger kids with sandpaper...McIlrath has taken so much s**t on this board but the Rangers will need him even more than they thought.

I think they've been hesitant to draft those "big power forward types" because of failed Jessiman experiment.

 

[Mikos87]

This is an interesting set of circumstances. Everyone has said pretty much what I was seeing out there, my guess is that there are more unwilling guys on the roster right now than willing.

I hated losing Prust because of what he brought along with him, especially in the locker room. If Torts is instructing guys not to fight, then he is causing his guys to get run.

My guess is that the mentally soft on the team will be replaced by some grit, McIlrath would be a start, but seeing Mashinter skate, my guess is they are trying to develop his hockey skills more than anything. But in a short season, and seeing how teams in the Northeast have loaded up (this'll what will happen with Lucic, Thornton and Chara on a team), the Rangers don't match up against a bunch of teams.

I think Halpern and Gilroy are soft. Kreider, Hags, Gabby, Richie, DZ aren't playing with a pulse out there having to worry about getting run.

The guys don't seem to pull for Asham, maybe 5+ years of bad blood in the division doesn't translate into locker room chemistry. Worked great for Brashear didn't it?

Stu Bickel can't hit.

The Rangers have no one on their roster that any player on the other side would fear, or worry about dealing with. You guys aren't alone, twitter's exploded at the team, and the lack of willingness in the line up.

 

[NjDevsRR]

As an outsider who watches many NYR games I also view the Rangers as a much softer team than last season, a few heart and soul guys who played with pride for the Rangers are gone. But I have also been noticing that the opposing teams are using a different game plan that they didnt use last year. Last season teams feared the Rangers and devoted a lot of time to try to figure out how to break your tight defensive system to generate shots which detracted from that teams usual game plan. The Devils definitely struggled against you guys in the regular season because they were more worried about how to generate shots and beating Lundqvist instead of worrying about their own game, this really made the Devils step away from their normal game plan. This year I am seeing a totally different mindset to many of the teams. They are not afraid to play their game because they are not afraid of the Rangers anymore. They now know the key to playing the Rangers and they are not hesitant anymore.

Hope that makes sense, and its just my two cents. (and that rhymed )

 

[aim2win]

Yes... undoubtedly, this team is playing soft.

Last year the Rangers were tough and gritty. It seemed that each game the other team was "beat up" and dreading the next time they had to play us. But wtf do I know... I'm an Avery fan.

 

[NYR Viper]

Yes, they are. And as I have said before, it almost doesn't matter who is on the 4th line, they have almost no one in the top 9 that makes the opposing teams players keep their heads up. It's been missing for a long time.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

While I agree the Rangers need a bit more toughness the best way to prevent cheap shots is a good power play. As long as the Rangers power play is bad teams are going to take liberties. Why wouldn't a team take a cheap shots? What punishment are they going to get?

Agree with this. Do players keep track of other teams' power plays and adjust their play accordingly?

With the Rangers, there's nothing lost by taking a penalty.

 

[Trxjw]

Soft? Not exactly, but it's certainly hard to unify the team when you're turning it over every summer. I'd love a big, mean powerforward who can skate a top-six shift and intimidate, but at this point I'd settle for guys like Richards and Gaborik not standing idle while players cheapshot our kids.

 

[egelband]

I don't understand, we were the toughest team in the NHL last year. Physically dominated the Bruins a couple of times last year. What has happened?

i think 'tenacious' is a better word for the rangers last season. they were tough to play, because they skated hard treating every game as a playoff game. but they weren't really policing the ice (aside from Rupp against Florida- that was beautiful).

now they don't even have that tenacity. and there is no deterrent to running rangers. it makes me a bit embarrassed to watch these guys.

remember boyle in the playoffs getting beaten up by carkner saying 'the refs will make you pay!' whatever...

bring me mcilrath pronto. maybe he can change the tone.

and i certainly don't need staged fights...that's garbage.

 

[NYR Viper]

i think 'tenacious' is a better word for the rangers last season. they were tough to play, because they skated hard treating every game as a playoff game. but they weren't really policing the ice (aside from Rupp against Florida- that was beautiful).

now they don't even have that tenacity. and there is no deterrent to running rangers. it makes me a bit embarrassed to watch these guys.

remember boyle in the playoffs getting beaten up by carkner saying 'the refs will make you pay!' whatever...

bring me mcilrath pronto. maybe he can change the tone.

and i certainly don't need staged fights...that's garbage.

This is part of the reason for the Rangers problems. The Rangers staff and fans seem to think that bringing in (1) or (2) players will change the entire team. Not going to happen. It's a team-wide thing.

 

[egelband]

This is part of the reason for the Rangers problems. The Rangers staff and fans seem to think that bringing in (1) or (2) players will change the entire team. Not going to happen. It's a team-wide thing.

totally. it's not the goons. anyone can be tough. even gaborik could have done something when pacioretty boarded mcdonagh. cross check the punk in the face. remove some of his teeth. watch him never do that again. (maybe not the best example, i'll admit, because the pacioretty hit wasn't so awful). but my point is that anyone can step up for a teammate. there has to be accountability on the ice. a player needs to be shown limits. the rangers dont show their opponents limits. and they kinda never have. they don't have the culture. needs to change.

 

[haveandare]

Tortorella clarified his retaliation policy 3 years ago - he will not penalize players if they are sticking up for their teammates. Last year's team certainly had no issue protecting their teammates under Torts.

This is from 2010:



http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/torts_clarifies_retaliation_policy_g02u9pEvTJgajAgoFcuT2H

We had a lot of turnover over the summer, we lost some homegrown guys and some players who epitomized the Rangers' hard-working identity. This team has yet to forge a collective identity. They better do so quickly or our opponents will continue to exploit this weakness.

Good call finding that quote. Nobody stepped up. That's on everyone: Torts, every player on the ice and every player on the bench.

Again, I think camp and preseason and some time to get to know the new guys and play some games without the pressure of points on the line would have done wonders for this group. They had to start the season trying to get to know each other and trying to get points at the same time, and when they faltered, the failure started to snowball. It's not an excuse, but it's an explanation.

 

[Ice Hockey]

McD boarded from behind...no response.

My thoughts exactly. At least deal out a few (LEGAL) huge hits out there to shake things up??? i saw NOTHING. no heart, no physical response and i was... well, embarrassed really. that lack of response was pathetic. what was torts thinking? drop the mits, **** them up and challenge them! we didn't even challenge them in a single category. soft as ****. not going anywhere this year unless we do a complete 180 now and hank steals us all sorts of games.

 

[Ice Hockey]

Artie didnt hit crap, and Feds is toast.

too much revisionist history going on here.

artie actually DID engage almost every shift. it goes unnoticed sometimes because he likes to pokecheck but he always goes into the boards looking to make **** happen and sacrifices his body to make a play. i've seen artie throw some huge checks as a ranger. plays with more physicality than almost every forward on this team..

 

[Heyoooo*]

The New York Rangers aren’t a disaster.

They’re 8-7-2, sitting one point out of the No. 8 seed with a game in-hand over the Tampa Bay Lightning. Their goal differential is a minus-3. If there’s a major point of concern, it’s the offense: Their 41 goals puts them No. 25 in the NHL, while their 3.35 goals per game average is 23rd in the League.

But there’s a sense that this team has dramatically underachieved, based on last season’s 109-point pace and appearance in the Eastern Conference Final, as well as its addition of Rick Nash to an all-star roster.

What’s wrong with the Rangers?

We asked Rangers bloggers Scotty Hockey; Kevin DeLury of NY Rangers Blog; and Patrick Hoffman of Goal Line Report to give us their take on the Blueshirts, and what’s gone right and wrong in 2013. Enjoy …

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...GNhdANibG9nBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3#more-51455

This leads us to the team’s next problem and that is offense. For the offensive talent that the Blueshirts have in guys like Marian Gaborik, Rick Nash, Brad Richards, Ryan Callahan, Carl Hagelin and Derek Stepan, the team certainly does not score a lot of goals (24th in the league).

While it is easy to place the blame on the forwards themselves, most of the blame should be put on team head coach John Tortorella. While it is great to play defensive hockey and win a bunch of games by one and two-goals, this kind of systems simply does not work for offensive players.

3. Where is your confidence level with both John Tortorella and Glen Sather?

SCOTTY HOCKEY: I have no confidence in Tortorella but, to be honest, I haven't had that since he tanked the team with his antics during the Caps series in 2009. He is still coaching this team like it is pre2004-05 lockout, over-relying on a select few players. It worked back then because the grab-and-hold hockey allowed players to conserve some energy but now, he's just wearing guys into the ground (see 2012 playoffs: Girardi, Dan and McDonagh, Ryan). And that is not to mention his acerbic, unprofessional attitude or his recent propensity for putting too many men on the ice ...

This year, however, Tortorella is faced with a real challenge as the personnel doesn’t seem to fit his game plan. Where players bought in last year, they seem less willing to do so this year. So now he has to decide if he wants to change from a defensive system to a more wide open style to accommodate the skill of Nash which the team has alarmingly become dependent on as evidenced by the one goal by a forward in the three games since he went down with an injury.

In the end, I have the confidence that Tortorella sticks with what worked so well last year and the players buy back in. Since the Montreal game Saturday night, the Rangers’ toughness has been questioned in every corner of the hockey world and you can be assured that Tortorella will use it as a rallying cry the same way he did when Joe Thornton called his team soft last year.

HOFFMAN: While it is great to see that John Tortorella’s defensive style of hockey works to a ‘T, it is not a good thing that it comes with the sacrificing of offense.

There is no doubt that good defense is important when it comes to winning hockey but that cannot come at the expense of putting the puck in the net. Players like Marian Gaborik, Rick Nash, Brad Richards and Carl Hagelin need to be given more free reign when it comes to generating offense.

If Tortorella can change his system a bit and get the team’s offense clicking, my confidence in him will be a lot higher. With that said, Tortorealla is still the right coach for this team and he just needs to change things around a bit.

Most agree that this personnel doesnt fit Tort's system and that the loss of Dubi, Prust, Arty, Feds, etc. hurt more than most thought, but Callahan our best player and Asham most disappointing? Really? Not even close.

 

[Trxjw]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...GNhdANibG9nBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3#more-51455

Most agree that this personnel doesnt fit Tort's system and that the loss of Dubi, Prust, Arty, Feds, etc. hurt more than most thought, but Callahan our best player and Asham most disappointing? Really? Not even close.

"Scotty Hockey" is a legitimate blogger? Yeah. We never replaced Sean Avery and the incredible 15 games he played for us last year. There's our problem. This guy has to be a poster on here.

If the required credentials to be a voice on Puck Daddy are 'no credentials whatsoever' then I hereby nominate myself to be on the next panel.

 

[Heyoooo*]

"Scotty Hockey" is a legitimate blogger? Yeah. We never replaced Sean Avery and the incredible 15 games he played for us last year. There's our problem. This guy has to be a poster on here.

If the required credentials to be a voice on Puck Daddy are 'no credentials whatsoever' then I hereby nominate myself to be on the next panel.

Look no further..

2. Who has been the Rangers' best player? Who has been their biggest disappointment?

SCOTTY HOCKEY: Best has probably been Ryan Callahan. Night in and night out the captain has gone to the wall for the team - he's throwing his body around blocking shots and forcing turnovers, he's battling defenders as often the first man in the zone and a regular inside the slot, and he's scoring big goals with two regulation game-winners and one shootout game-winner.

5 point in 14 games Ryan Callahan? -4 Ryan Callahan? that one?

Our best players are only a choice of Nash, Hagelin or Stepan. Callahan has been just as inconsistent as Gaborik, Richards, Lundqvist, etc. (although Hank's play has certainly gone up over the last while). Hes not setting a tone for any of these games like a leader should.

I love Callahan but jesus **** he is overrated by fans sometimes.