Are the Leafs a better TEAM without Matthews?

[Stephen]

Anyone bringing up not wanting to lose a rocket Richard shoe in, 100+ point player, top 5 Center in the league is right, but could they point me to where he is on the team because I don’t see that player on this team.

The issue isn’t Matthews in general, the issue is Matthews this season and honestly going back to last playoffs. He hasn’t been the same player for a while now and it’s concerning when he’s not even 30 and has stretches and even a full season worth of play at this level.

He hasn't really looked consistently himself since this play in pursuit of his 70th goal.

Failed to hit 70 in the last few games of the season, was not effective in the Boston series save the one game winner, missed time due to the mystery injury, and hasn't looked right at all since 2024-25 started. Hurt first day of camp and just injured, struggling the rest of the time.

 

[horner]

He hasn't really looked consistently himself since this play in pursuit of his 70th goal.

Failed to hit 70 in the last few games of the season, was not effective in the Boston series save the one game winner, missed time due to the mystery injury, and hasn't looked right at all since 2024-25 started. Hurt first day of camp and just injured, struggling the rest of the time.

He wanted 70 goals

 

[Goose]

There's a culture/fit problem with this team that involves him.

But, you're out of your mind if you think he makes any team worse, unless you're plucking Kucherov or McDavid off the roster in exchange for him or something dumb.

Captaincy I thought was a mistake from the start, he's never given off leadership vibes, especially with how invested he clearly was with his own goal total last year. I didn't understand pulling it from JT before his contract was up, super weird move it felt like to go to Matthews, but that said, what tf do I know about what's happening in that dressing room?

 

[Stephen]

He wanted 70 goals

We all wanted it.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I don't think he's 100% but also the team's play has been trending downwards since well before he came back. 5v5 they have 57% goals but only 50% expected and 49% on shot attempts. When he was out they got a combination of great goaltending and hard work on a stretched out schedule to win tight games. Now the bounces aren't going in their favour and they look pretty ordinary again.

Note the goalies are ~10th league wide in high-danger sv% (5v5) but 3rd on all shots so what they're doing is not letting in soft goals. So the D are mostly doing their job. Depth scoring has largely dried up so when one or two of the big guns doesn't show up it's hard to win.

 

[Maple Leaf]

regular season whatever no point anyways playoff time lets see if the old core can make some magic i wont bet on it tho

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No, don't be ridiculous.

This team just won 10 out of 12, or 12 out of 14, whatever it was, It's around there.

They just went 18 games without back to back regulation losses, and now because they suffer 2 regulation losses for The for The first time in about 6 weeks you want to ask if they are better without Matthews?

Are you f***ing serious?

When Florida lost 4 straight in regulation, did ANYBODY ask if they were a better team without Barkov or Tkachuk? no because that would have been ridiculous.

This thread only exists because William Nylander missed a breakaway against Washington,

because Knies missed 3 wide open nets in the last 2 games,

because OEL hit the post against Washington,

because Tavares got ROBBED by Jarry in the last minute.

Because a ref literally kicked the game winning goal to the Capitals.

IF ONE of those things do not happen this ridiculous question is not asked.

This ridiculous thread does not exist even if both games are lost in OT.

They all did happen so here we are.

teams are NEVER better without their best player, literally NEVER

 

[centipede2233]

The NYI lost taveras to free agency and promptly went to back to back conference finals…

 

[HairyKneel]

AM for Petey and Hughes. Who adds, who says no??

Throw in a couple 1sts and Knies and you have my attention

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

This fan base deserves being bottom feeders in the league.

Pathetic.

 

[Racer88]

This fan base deserves being bottom feeders in the league.

Pathetic.

No, the fan base deserves a winning team.
The fan base deserves the high end players that took the lions share of the cap to earn it.
The fan base deserves management that is not afraid to make changes as needed no matter who may be involved
No player is above being held accountable

 

[Auston Marlander]

I'm not sure 2 horrible bounces (Dasher board and ref) can be attributed to the Matthews factor.

Teams ebb and flow. Any team is better with the best goal scorer in the league.

But I guess things are pretty good in Leafs land if we have a "sky is falling" thread after 2 losses.

 

[Nineteen67]

They certainly are more entertaining to watch when he’s not playing.

 

[fancy lad]

yeahh... we need more conor dewars and less auston mathews LOL.

 

[Nineteen67]

yeahh... we need more conor dewars and less auston mathews LOL.

They need more Tkachuk, Draisaitl, McDavid, Mac, Makar, Crosby types and less Matthews.

 

[ToneDog]

They need more Tkachuk, Draisaitl, McDavid, Mac, Makar, Crosby types and less Matthews.

Some might add more Kopitar, Doughty, Petro, Toews, Kane, Keith types and less Marner, Nylander and Rielly types. Sorry Willie but you need to the player you were in the first 39 games last year prior to signing.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Some might add more Kopitar, Doughty, Petro, Toews, Kane, Keith types and less Marner, Nylander and Rielly types. Sorry Willie but you need to the player you were in the first 39 games last year prior to signing.

Why would anyone expect that when it was the only 39 games of his career that he played like that?

I know I didn’t. Luckily only 7 more years after this one.

 

[Nineteen67]

Some might add more Kopitar, Doughty, Petro, Toews, Kane, Keith types and less Marner, Nylander and Rielly types. Sorry Willie but you need to the player you were in the first 39 games last year prior to signing.

Sure, but this thread is about Matthews.

 

[ToneDog]

Why would anyone expect that when it was the only 39 games of his career that he played like that?

I know I didn’t. Luckily only 7 more years after this one.

Leafs paid him based on that. Doubt they'd cave and give a 40 goal, 85 point player that contract. I thought he'd be a 100 point player at a minimum.

Edit: Last year after 27 games, 15 goals and 22 assists, 113 point pace

This year after 27 games 17 goals, 11 assists, -2

 

[mapleleaf979]

Matthews and Marner cant play together. One or both disappear too often and just rely on the other, to make things happen for the line. They get too fancy with the puck playing keep away from the other team but not creating chances. Second point is, the team plays harder and more together when 34 is out of the lineup for whatever reason. The team is engaged from line 1 to 4 but when 34 returns it turns into a 2 line team, the bottom 6 seems to disappear.

Domi Matthews Knies
Marner Tavares Mcmann
Nylander Trade Pacoretty
Lorentz Dewar Trade

Thats my playoff lineup.
Matthews has lesser talent, which forces him to stay engaged, he has a playmaker and a forechecker which is good for him. Main focus is to keep 34 engaged.

Tavares is elevated by Marner's playmaking, back checking with speed and defensive game. Main focus here is to minimize Tavares lack of foot speed on any line he is on and potentially make him dangerous in the O zone.

Nylander is miscast on the 3rd line but can take advantage of mismatches. Minten may be ok for 3c but a trade might be needed. Nylander can play both PP units and can be bumped up to line 1 or 2 to end periods, to mix up the lines or stack it in during a 3-2 game late in the 3rd. He can still play 20mins a night in this role.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They need more Tkachuk, Draisaitl, McDavid, Mac, Makar, Crosby types and less Matthews.

Matthews is that type.

Leafs paid him based on that.

If Treliving signed Nylander to that because he thought that his unsustainable production pace of less than half a year was suddenly his new normal, then we're in big trouble.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Matthews and Marner cant play together. One or both disappear too often and just rely on the other, to make things happen for the line. They get too fancy with the puck playing keep away from the other team but not creating chances. Second point is, the team plays harder and more together when 34 is out of the lineup for whatever reason. The team is engaged from line 1 to 4 but when 34 returns it turns into a 2 line team, the bottom 6 seems to disappear.

Domi Matthews Knies
Marner Tavares Mcmann
Nylander Trade Pacoretty
Lorentz Dewar Trade

Thats my playoff lineup.
Matthews has lesser talent, which forces him to stay engaged, he has a playmaker and a forechecker which is good for him. Main focus is to keep 34 engaged.

Tavares is elevated by Marner's playmaking, back checking with speed and defensive game. Main focus here is to minimize Tavares lack of foot speed on any line he is on and potentially make him dangerous in the O zone.

Nylander is miscast on the 3rd line but can take advantage of mismatches. Minten may be ok for 3c but a trade might be needed. Nylander can play both PP units and can be bumped up to line 1 or 2 to end periods, to mix up the lines or stack it in during a 3-2 game late in the 3rd. He can still play 20mins a night in this role.

I like that forward group TBH .. give Minten a shot between Patches and Nylander

 

[LeafGrief]

It's fairly pointless to try and read the tea leaves in November/December because we're always dynamite in November and hot garbage in December. I think it's fair to say that the Matthews captaincy era has started as badly as you could conceive, but I also think we'd suck in December if we had prime Gretzky on the squad.

I will say though, I've reached the point where the shine has come of Matthews completely. I held on for a long, long time, but at this point I just don't care about this guy any more. He's our best player, he's got all the talent in the world, but he just doesn't have the IT factor and no amount of wishing he did is going to make it appear for him. Maybe this will be the year that Matthews and Marner discover the magical true meaning of friendship and lead us to the promised land, human growth is always possible, but I won't be expecting it.

 

[Suntouchable13]

It's fairly pointless to try and read the tea leaves in November/December because we're always dynamite in November and hot garbage in December. I think it's fair to say that the Matthews captaincy era has started as badly as you could conceive, but I also think we'd suck in December if we had prime Gretzky on the squad.

I will say though, I've reached the point where the shine has come of Matthews completely. I held on for a long, long time, but at this point I just don't care about this guy any more. He's our best player, he's got all the talent in the world, but he just doesn't have the IT factor and no amount of wishing he did is going to make it appear for him. Maybe this will be the year that Matthews and Marner discover the magical true meaning of friendship and lead us to the promised land, human growth is always possible, but I won't be expecting it.

I think it's been abundantly clear we are not going anywhere with this core.

 

[thewave]

I think it's been abundantly clear we are not going anywhere with this core.

Not as it was. If they buy in it could happen. Look at the path Ovi took. All hope is not lost but we're looking at a 3 year window with the moves on D and at G