Are the Leafs a better TEAM without Matthews?

[robertmac43]

If you genuinly think this, I have many questions about your knowledge levels.

 

[Schennanigans]

Probably depends on who we have instead of him. One thing is clear. With or without him we haven’t won anything

 

[johnnyonthspot]

These conversations would frequently pop up in the Sundin days as well. And it is now, just like then, non-sensical.

No, the Leafs are not a better team without Matthews.

I come in peace as a Jets fan to say your team is not. We used to think the same about Bufyglien and have those debates. Once he was gone ; reality hit. We needed him.

 

[francis246]

I don’t know if they are better but maybe we just have one too many alphas on the team. Matthews also is clearly not 100%.

 

[baton elevated]

The real question should be, are we a better team with Mathews or the players that he would bring in, in a trade. Pick 2-3 players off any team as a trade partner and what do you get? Better or worse? Obviously you won't get McD or Mac but there are other options. Scour the players on any other team and you will see there are tantalizing choices. AM34's injury history scares me, also his desire to one day play in his home country as well.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner's the engine of the team, doesn't really matter who else we have.

 

[francis246]

The real question should be, are we a better team with Mathews or the players that he would bring in, in a trade. Pick 2-3 players off any team as a trade partner and what do you get? Better or worse? Obviously you won't get McD or Mac but there are other options. Scour the players on any other team and you will see there are tantalizing choices. AM34's injury history scares me, also his desire to one day play in his home country as well.

Has Auston out right said I want to play for a US market?

 

[baton elevated]

Has Auston out right said I want to play for a US market?

Most American born players would gravitate to their roots. Those high profile cities are very seductive. NY, LA, Vegas etc

 

[HockeyVirus]

Not a least bit surprised by the poll results with our fanbase.

If people actually paid attention they would notice the common theme is McCabe.

 

[Racer88]

I think they are short term and that’s with him and his 13.4 cap space simply missing . Now spend that 13.4 wisely and the team could very well be better short term and long term.
This silly narrative that some Leaf fans have that the team would automatically be worse with one of the expensive 4 gone simply does not hold water.
Before anyone says , well who would you add and if you can’t think of anyone well then you are simply wrong.
As fans we have no idea who might be available or made available.
It’s not our job, it’s the job of the professionals who are very high paid.
The simple fact that many other teams win more rounds, more conference finals and cups without any of those 4 guys is proof enough

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Not a least bit surprised by the poll results with our fanbase.

If people actually paid attention they would notice the common theme is McCabe.

The common theme is the guy that hadn't played a playoff game until he was 31, not the captain and highest paid player in the league.

 

[Hellcat]

It has worked well in the past. He seems to like some grinders and one who can get him the puck. All for it, can we make it happen? No chance

Domi seemed to have chemistry with him last year, no harm in trying. I think this lineup would give the other coach fits to try and line match..

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Patches - JT - Marner
Grebyonkin - Minten - W. Nylander
Dewar - Holmberg - Lorentz

 

[CabanaBoy5]

He's not scoring at a 90 goal pace so let's send him to the glue factory.

Send this to the Thread Hall of Fame.

No, this thread exists because he's playing like shit right now, reverting to some of his nonchalant lackadaisical play that we've seen in playoffs. The question people have to ask themselves, is it the injury, or is this just who he is. A terrific scorer who doesn't have the motor/energy/fire to put a team on his shoulders. I voted undecided because it depends on which version of Matthews we get. The engaged one, or the one who gives the air of laziness. Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who owns a Matthews jersey and had hopes he would lead us to a Stanley Cup.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Domi seemed to have chemistry with him last year, no harm in trying. I think this lineup would give the other coach fits to try and line match..

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Patches - JT - Marner
Grebyonkin - Minten - W. Nylander
Dewar - Holmberg - Lorentz

Berube should really try this, except replace Grebenkin with McMann this year. Our third line has been trash offensively all season, we have to get scoring from them, so this might be something to try. Matthews-Marner should only be used on a sporadic basis.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

Statistically they have had a better record without Matthews over a pretty significant sample size now - sure. Happens to a lot of teams/players. Look at Sid, etc. But actually better? Probably not.

He's a generational scorer. There's just other elements of the team that need to be present when Mr. Superstar Is there as well - not just when he's gone. Teams are made up of lots of different things. If one of them on your team is a generational goal scorer, that is a key piece to any franchise. He may need to be supported by a squad that has the power to both pull the best out of him when he's there - but also, a group that 'steps up' when he's actually IN the lineup, too - especially if they're all guilty of skating around waiting for him to do it.

 

[Menzinger]

Nope. Even if you want to make the case that the team plays tighter without him - well that's a coaching issue, not a Matthews one. I have zero desire to go back to the 04-2015 era of not having a true 1C, we've lost the plot pretty badly if we start thinking that

Now,.should Marner, Matthews and Nylander play in different lines? That's a more intriguing question

 

[baton elevated]

AM for Petey and Hughes. Who adds, who says no??

 

[Stephen]

Nope. Even if you want to make the case that the team plays tighter without him - well that's a coaching issue, not a Matthews one. I have zero desire to go back to the 04-2015 era of not having a true 1C, we've lost the plot pretty badly if we start thinking that

Now,.should Marner, Matthews and Nylander play in different lines? That's a more intriguing question

It's indisputable that the Leafs are better with Auston Matthews, but it's the good one he's been for most of his career and not the 2024-25 version we've seen on a regular basis. Aside from health, the problem with this version is he's not really performing like a number one center, but a scoring winger/faux center who is a 5 on 5 ghost. Kind of Steven Stamkos in Tampa. Is it injury related? No one knows because no one knows the nature and extent of his injury. Is it engagement level? Who knows, he's the captain and an emotional blackhole.

The most disappointing thing so far is out of the Big 4, Auston Matthews has adapted the worst to the Craig Berube brand.

 

[Dekes For Days]

When Tavares left the isles everyone thought the team was done. They ended up being better.

What actually happened: NYI were tied for the 8th best point percentage though 2014-2017. They had a drastic drop off in 2017-2018 (Tavares' last year), as the season was tanked by horrific coaching and goaltending. After scrambling to re-sign Tavares and failing, the NYI needed to combine his actual cap replacement, Barzal on an ELC, a much better coach, some of the best goaltending in the league, and their defensive core hitting their primes, to return to the 9th best point percentage through 2018-2021. And then misinformed people tried to use that improvement relative to the mess of specifically 2017-2018 to pretend that top tier players could be cast aside without consequence, even though that hit to offense at a time when defense and goaltending were peaking potentially cost the Islanders a cup.

 

[Aashir]

Anyone bringing up not wanting to lose a rocket Richard shoe in, 100+ point player, top 5 Center in the league is right, but could they point me to where he is on the team because I don’t see that player on this team.

The issue isn’t Matthews in general, the issue is Matthews this season and honestly going back to last playoffs. He hasn’t been the same player for a while now and it’s concerning when he’s not even 30 and has stretches and even a full season worth of play at this level.

 

[The Iceman]

Going to get flamed here but I gotta ask Leaf Nation:

Are we better as a team with or without Matthews?

By the way, I have his jersey, his rookie card and I think he’s awesome.

Ultimately, I just want a cup, and I don’t care how we get it.

In before closed.

And in other news.
Edmonton is better without mcDavid and Colorado is better without MacKinnon.

 

[DarkKnight]

Absolutely not.

The question is quite simple though: does Matthews have what it takes to be a champion?

That's interesting.

 

[Nineteen67]

AM for Petey and Hughes. Who adds, who says no??

Vancouver? Hughes is good but Petey seems to have less interest than Matthews and Nylander combined in playing playoff hockey.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Has Auston out right said I want to play for a US market?

Quite the contrary. He's stated repeatedly that he loves it in Toronto and wants to stay here.

 

[Nineteen67]

Absolutely not.

The question is quite simple though: does Matthews have what it takes to be a champion?

That's interesting.

He’s done nothing in his hockey life to suggest he does.