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Are the Leafs a better TEAM without Matthews?

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Are the Leafs a better TEAM with or without Matthews

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 23.1%

  • No

    Votes: 110 65.1%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 20 11.8%
  • Total voters
    169
  • Poll closed .

TorMapleJays

Registered User
Jun 24, 2012
3,958
2,269
Going to get flamed here but I gotta ask Leaf Nation:

Are we better as a team with or without Matthews?

By the way, I have his jersey, his rookie card and I think he’s awesome.

Ultimately, I just want a cup, and I don’t care how we get it.
Click to read more...
 
You can run a tighter ship without Auston Matthews in the medium term. Guys take on more responsibility, buy into a consistent team effort, finish checks, commit to north south hockey, take on the role of the hunter instead of the hunted, and it all works pretty well... it's not unique to Matthews but often group dynamics grow to fill a gap.

In theory, you plug in a Hart and Rocket level Matthews to a finely tuned machine, and you have an unstoppable juggernaut.

The problem we are seeing right now however is plugging in Matthews, the sum is lesser than the parts because of the inconsistency in his game and we don't have a Hart and Rocket level player leading the charge. You mix in a useless Reaves, a fresh of injury Pacioretty, loss of McCabe, all of a sudden that team that was humming in November has some chemistry imbalances and a power vacuum at the top.
 
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Without his 13.25? 100000%. But sadly, his claws have sunken too deep into this team that they need him at this point. Which is why the team will never win in this era. Thank you MLSE and Auston Matthews!
 
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Stephen said:
You can run a tighter ship without Auston Matthews in the medium term. Guys take on more responsibility, buy into a consistent team effort, finish checks, commit to north south hockey, take on the role of the hunter instead of the hunted, and it all works pretty well... it's not unique to Matthews but often group dynamics grow to fill a gap.

In theory, you plug in a Hart and Rocket level Matthews to a finely tuned machine, and you have an unstoppable juggernaut.

The problem we are seeing right now however is plugging in Matthews, the sum is lesser than the parts because of the inconsistency in his game and we don't have a Hart and Rocket level player leading the charge. You mix in a useless Reaves, a fresh of injury Pacioretty, loss of McCabe, all of a sudden that team that was humming in November has some chemistry imbalances and a power vacuum at the top.
Click to expand...
This is an incredibly well- measured take, considering the last lil stretch of games. Kudos!
 
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These conversations would frequently pop up in the Sundin days as well. And it is now, just like then, non-sensical.

No, the Leafs are not a better team without Matthews.
 
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Stephen said:
You can run a tighter ship without Auston Matthews in the medium term. Guys take on more responsibility, buy into a consistent team effort, finish checks, commit to north south hockey, take on the role of the hunter instead of the hunted, and it all works pretty well... it's not unique to Matthews but often group dynamics grow to fill a gap.

In theory, you plug in a Hart and Rocket level Matthews to a finely tuned machine, and you have an unstoppable juggernaut.

The problem we are seeing right now however is plugging in Matthews, the sum is lesser than the parts because of the inconsistency in his game and we don't have a Hart and Rocket level player leading the charge. You mix in a useless Reaves, a fresh of injury Pacioretty, loss of McCabe, all of a sudden that team that was humming in November has some chemistry imbalances and a power vacuum at the top.
Click to expand...
They are 3 - 2 in his return. The 2 losses close one goal games. He has 7 points in the 5 games with 11 blocked shot. Has looked pretty solid - I'm not sure if across the 7 games it has been all Hart/Rocket level for you, not enough hat tricks, but I don't think this is all that accurate.

Maybe we allow at least the bulk of the season to play out before coming to such conclusions, especially with some of comments of his early captaincy - will need the season to play out and then evaluation in the coming playoffs.
 
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HellasLEAF said:
They are 3 - 2 in his return. The 2 losses close one goal games. He has 7 points in the 5 games with 11 blocked shot. Has looked pretty solid - I'm not sure if across the 7 games it has been all Hart/Rocket level for you, not enough hat tricks, but I don't think this is all that accurate.

Maybe we allow at least the bulk of the season to play out before coming to such conclusions, especially with some of comments of his early captaincy - will need the season to play out and then evaluation in the coming playoffs.
Click to expand...

Matthews' Pittsburgh effort was abysmal.

Based on his skating alone you knew he was going to be largely ineffective night, independent of hat tricks scored, assists on the board and whatever else the highest paid player in the game ought to be doing. Lots of coasting, looping routes, a split second too late to get to any puck battle, pretty limited physical engagement. Probably the second most casual effort out there minus Alex Nylander.

Matthews looked busy defensively and got hit by the puck a lot but but largely disengaged. In the first Bryan Rust was digging for the puck at the top of the crease, Matthews didn't even put a stick on him but had body positioning and it was up to others to put out the fire. Completely ineffective on the PK burning time, energy and calories. He lost a breakaway footrace to Evgeni Malkin of all people, didn't exert an ounce of effort in the faceoff circle.

Offensively, it looked like he just tried to "stay open" by keeping well wide of any puck carrier. Threw grenade passes to Marner all night and completely deferred carrying the puck any distance into any kind of traffic. This is f'ing Pittsburgh in December, by the way, not Florida, Tampa, Boston and other typical ghosts that haunt in big games in the playoffs.

In short, the process was trash, the numbers were okay, but you can't hide behind excuses in the position that he's in. Mitch usually gets the bulk of blame for the dysfunction with the AM MM line, but the Leafs elevated Matthews status and he's just failed to deliver.
 
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TorMapleJays said:
Going to get flamed here but I gotta ask Leaf Nation:

Are we better as a team with or without Matthews?

By the way, I have his jersey, his rookie card and I think he’s awesome.

Ultimately, I just want a cup, and I don’t care how we get it.
Click to expand...
They are better with marner and mathews driving different lines
 
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Maybe the question asked should be: Why aren’t we a better team with Matthews back in the fold?

Then the answers relevant to the question provide opportunity to THINK about the Why?

The presumption should be to pose questions that CHECK our biases to arrive at the best answers for solutions, and not to confirm those biases.

I think this period is instructive twofold: It sets the stage to reconsider bias against Marner given his return to form with a heavier hand. And it sets the stage to reconsider bias for Matthews now that he’s facing a number of challenges.

I think McCabe and Tanev are much, much much, more valuable than perhaps previously thought. I think they’re the key to success for our club because their style and example is what’s lacking throughout. Moreover because their kind of adaptable mindset irrespective of personnel is the type of systematic shift that sees sacrifice for the team as its identifiable engine. And not unlike a lot successful business models, to be seen being seen exemplifying that new identity is essential for our Cup goals; That was what Montreal ran on, Detroit and New Jersey, like shark’s teeth: One drops out another just as effective in the enterprise replaces it.

Yzerman the player made a critical shift eschewing personal stats gain for team Cup success. Maybe part of the problem is Matthews realizing he has to do the same and he just needs time to adapt to his new role, albeit while being tasked to represent his country through a nagging injury?

At any rate: Looking for the Why?
 
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ITM said:
Maybe the question asked should be: Why aren’t we a better team with Matthews back in the fold?

Then the answers relevant to the question provide opportunity to THINK about the Why?

The presumption should be to pose questions that CHECK our biases to arrive at the best answers for solutions, and not to confirm those biases.

I think this period is instructive twofold: It sets the stage to reconsider bias against Marner given his return to form with a heavier hand. And it sets the stage to reconsider bias for Matthews now that he’s facing a number of challenges.

I think McCabe and Tanev are much, much much, more valuable than perhaps previously thought. I think they’re the key to success for our club because their style and example is what’s lacking throughout. Moreover because their kind of adaptable mindset irrespective of personnel is the type of systematic shift that sees sacrifice for the team as its identifiable engine. And not unlike a lot successful business models, to be seen being seen exemplifying that new identity is essential for our Cup goals; That was what Montreal ran on, Detroit and New Jersey, like shark’s teeth: One drops out another just as effective in the enterprise replaces it.

Yzerman the player made a critical shift eschewing personal stats gain for team Cup success. Maybe part of the problem is Matthews realizing he has to do the same and he just needs time to adapt to his new role, albeit while being tasked to represent his country through a nagging injury?

At any rate: Looking for the Why?
Click to expand...

Because he is playing with a puck hog in Marner that is trying to make bank. It's the reason he performs better with Nylander lately or even Domi.

Nobody wants to hear that though.
 
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ITM said:
Maybe the question asked should be: Why aren’t we a better team with Matthews back in the fold?

Then the answers relevant to the question provide opportunity to THINK about the Why?

The presumption should be to pose questions that CHECK our biases to arrive at the best answers for solutions, and not to confirm those biases.

I think this period is instructive twofold: It sets the stage to reconsider bias against Marner given his return to form with a heavier hand. And it sets the stage to reconsider bias for Matthews now that he’s facing a number of challenges.

I think McCabe and Tanev are much, much much, more valuable than perhaps previously thought. I think they’re the key to success for our club because their style and example is what’s lacking throughout. Moreover because their kind of adaptable mindset irrespective of personnel is the type of systematic shift that sees sacrifice for the team as its identifiable engine. And not unlike a lot successful business models, to be seen being seen exemplifying that new identity is essential for our Cup goals; That was what Montreal ran on, Detroit and New Jersey, like shark’s teeth: One drops out another just as effective in the enterprise replaces it.

Yzerman the player made a critical shift eschewing personal stats gain for team Cup success. Maybe part of the problem is Matthews realizing he has to do the same and he just needs time to adapt to his new role, albeit while being tasked to represent his country through a nagging injury?

At any rate: Looking for the Why?
Click to expand...

For me, it looks like the original Matthews injury forced the team to move quickly into Berube style hockey, and they thrived, taking many steps towards becoming a different team looking to tune up for a playoff run.

Marner found a nice rhythm, elevated his game to new heights, Tavares looks rejuvenated engaged, driving, Nylander has kept rolling, etc, the defense and goaltending was great for the entire month of November. Everything just looked so north south, clean, simple, etc.

Then Matthews comes back. For the most part he's been okay, but the off nights and Marner pairing kind of shows me he's either not healthy, or lost in the transition to Berube hockey.

Compared to everyone else his skating routes look lazy. Sometimes it looks like he doesn't want to get there. He gets to a puck battle and isn't fighting for anything. On a line with Marner and Knies/Pacioretty, he's the most passive one. Not generating offense. Not carrying the puck. Falling into old comfortable patterns.

It looks like the team took steps towards playing harder and Matthews has either been left behind or he's decided he wants to play Steven Stamkos hockey, which is a faux center, 5 on 5 ghost who looks for the switch flipping goal.
 
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