Are Matthews and Tavares Franchise #1 C's

[Marshy]

Of course they are. Don’t listen to dorks on the main board trying to make themselves feel better about the Leafs incoming success.

This.

In the HF poll of top centres done midway through this past season he was selected 4th best C in the league.

Backpedaling from that makes said backpedaler look like a joke.

 

[34]

This.

In the HF poll of top centres done midway through this past season he was selected 4th best C in the league.

Backpedaling from that makes said backpedaler look like a joke.

4th. He is not even top 50 now lol.

Tavares was a cap dump according to the main board now. From 4th best in the nhl lol.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Do you guys consider "franchise center" and "#1 center" to be the same thing?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Do you guys consider "franchise center" and "#1 center" to be the same thing?

Hmmmm. I want to say no. Teams could probably get away with giving guys like O’Reilly and Kadri first line time and matchups with strong wingers and they’d probably score 60-70 points while being solid defensively, but those teams wouldn’t go very far, unless they’re compensating by being elite elsewhere, like Nashville in 2016-2017 having an elite defence and goaltending to make up for their lack of strength down the middle.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Do you guys consider "franchise center" and "#1 center" to be the same thing?

I don't. It's the same thing in baseball with having an ace. Is the guy an actual ace/#1 center? Because by default, Bozak was the Leafs number one center for many years. A franchise center, to me, is a player you can build around. You can build around a Tavares or a Matthews. You can't build around a Bozak. Franchise players need to be elite in production. And if they arent putting up crazy numbers then they need to be elite in other aspects, like Bergeron is.

 

[MagicalRazor]

Now i see what other fans see , this is a really stupid thread / poll .

Tavares is a proven Franchise Center , Matthewes is an elite 1C and will be a franchise center in the future. If you don't all ready think hes one now ( I think hes one all ready but for the people who don't )

 

[Trapper]

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yeeeeeesssssssssssssssssss.

And that about wraps it up.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

With 25% of your cap invested in two players Leafs certainly hope so......like Crosby and Malkin or at their peak, Kane and Toews.

 

[Jack Bauer]

With 25% of your cap invested in two players Leafs certainly hope so......like Crosby and Malkin or at their peak, Kane and Toews.

Difference though is as the cap rises 25% leaves more room for others as compared to past seasons.

Crosby/Malkin taking up 25% of $60 mil leaves $45 mil for 21 other players.

Matthews/Tavares taking up 25% of $80 mil leaves $60 mil for 21 other players.

What i've been saying for a long time is that as long as the minimum doesn't rise...teams in cap crunches should have little issue working around their problems.

The real issue would be the minimum scale rising as the maximum cap/salary and floor minimum rise. But as long as you can get those Ennis, Johnsson, Dermott, Kapanen, Leivo, Holl, Borgman depth guys all under $1 mil you can always keep your elite talent.

 

[Deebo]

Now i see what other fans see , this is a really stupid thread / poll .

Tavares is a proven Franchise Center , Matthewes is an elite 1C and will be a franchise center in the future. If you don't all ready think hes one now ( I think hes one all ready but for the people who don't )

Hmmm?

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Difference though is as the cap rises 25% leaves more room for others as compared to past seasons.

Crosby/Malkin taking up 25% of $60 mil leaves $45 mil for 21 other players.

Matthews/Tavares taking up 25% of $80 mil leaves $60 mil for 21 other players.

What i've been saying for a long time is that as long as the minimum doesn't rise...teams in cap crunches should have little issue working around their problems.

The real issue would be the minimum scale rising as the maximum cap/salary and floor minimum rise. But as long as you can get those Ennis, Johnsson, Dermott, Kapanen, Leivo, Holl, Borgman depth guys all under $1 mil you can always keep your elite talent.

I agree with you. Gee, there seems to a lot Leaf haters saying, "you won't be able to pay your stars". Why? How are the Leafs different than other teams? If the Leafs (or any team) get into a cap crunch because they have too many good players deserving of big contracts, that isn't a problem. You will be a able to trade one of these high priced players for picks or cheap ELCs. That's a lot better cap crunch problem than higher too many players being paid to much, or buyout money on the books or having to retain salary when trading player.

 

[IBeL34f]

Do you guys consider "franchise center" and "#1 center" to be the same thing?

Not at all.

Kadri is basically a low-end #1C at this point, but is definitely not the guy I'm looking to build my entire team around.

Franchise players are players that literally change the course of your organization (positively) and allow you to build around them as your centerpiece.

Many #1 centers happen to be franchise players, but not every #1 center (or #1 defenseman, or #1 goalie) is a franchise player.

Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Tavares, Matthews, Stamkos, MacKinnon, Bergeron, Giroux, Kane, Ovechkin, Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson - Those are franchise players, guys that you hang onto at all costs as cornerstones of your team. Barring extreme circumstances, you can generally expect most of these guys and their teams to be making the Playoffs more often than not.

Kadri, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Couturier, O'Reilly, Draisaitl, Pavelski, Voracek, Kessel, Burns, Rielly, Carlson - These guys could all be considered #1s in their respective positions, but probably should not be your team's best player if you're looking to count yourself among the true contenders of the League.

 

[Incognito]

I find it telling that only two people have voted that Tavares and Matthews are not franchise C's (because this is clearly an idiotic opinion to hold), and one of them (Drakon) is a Caps fan who shouldn't even be voting in polls on our forum. He's obviously got a bone to pick with the Leafs.

 

[34]

I find it telling that only two people have voted that Tavares and Matthews are not franchise C's (because this is clearly an idiotic opinion to hold), and one of them (Drakon) is a Caps fan who shouldn't even be voting in polls on our forum. He's obviously got a bone to pick with the Leafs.

Considering it said Leafs fans only for the poll.

 

[Incognito]

Considering it said Leafs fans only for the poll.

Yeah, I'm not sure what part of "Leafs fans only" @Drakon didn't understand.

 

[Budsfan]

Putting Labels on players, like Franchise or Generational is not really important, suffice to say we have two of the best centers in the League and also the Nylander and Marner debate, again they are two of the best wingers in the League.
We have a great young team and once everything meshes together, it could soon be a contender for Lord Stanley's Mug.

 

[Peiskos]

100% both are franchise #1 centres, throw in Kadri who has has developed into a great two way centre who has potted 30+ goals in each of the past two seasons who would be considered a standard #1 C on a variety of teams too.

So basically the Leafs have 2 franchise #1 centres in Matthews-Tavares along with a standard #1 centre in Kadri who instead plays on the 3rd line.

 

[81Leafs50]

Absolutely 100% they are both FRANCHISE C's.

Anyone stating otherwise is just lying to themselves.

 

[Morbo]

If you guys are looking for some kind of validation from the rest of HFBoards you're not going to get it. Sit back and enjoy what is likely to be the best run of Leaf seasons since the 60s. admittedly a pretty low bar to clear, but this group in the Shanahan era is truly legit. We actually have a serious chance to win a title at some point here, provided we don't do anything stupid capwise.

Auston Matthews could be the greatest Leaf ever, and I do not say that lightly having followed the team for decades. Once his minutes and powerplay totals are what they should be for a superstar he'll be in contention for some hardware. He's already one of the very top players in hockey in terms of even strength production. He can score 40 goals without really producing much on the powerplay. think about that for a second.

As for Tavares, again, you guys knew exactly what would happen to his HFBoards rating as soon as he went to the Leafs. It was predictable as can be. Even notwithstanding that, I think folks are sleeping on him a bit because of the Islanders unimpressive overall performance. He is a truly elite centreman and to add him in his prime without spending an asset was a coup. Marner has been one of the best passers in the game since coming into the league and with the high hockey IQ between the pair it should be a fruitful matchup. If he has better chemistry with Willy and Marner plays with Papi, that's cool as well. Both kids are top line players. Either way assuming health JT's very likely headed for a career high in points and a very productive next 5 seasons with the kids just entering their primes.

 

[IPS]

If you guys are looking for some kind of validation from the rest of HFBoards you're not going to get it. Sit back and enjoy what is likely to be the best run of Leaf seasons since the 60s. admittedly a pretty low bar to clear, but this group in the Shanahan era is truly legit. We actually have a serious chance to win a title at some point here, provided we don't do anything stupid capwise.

Auston Matthews could be the greatest Leaf ever, and I do not say that lightly having followed the team for decades. Once his minutes and powerplay totals are what they should be for a superstar he'll be in contention for some hardware. He's already one of the very top players in hockey in terms of even strength production. He can score 40 goals without really producing much on the powerplay. think about that for a second.

As for Tavares, again, you guys knew exactly what would happen to his HFBoards rating as soon as he went to the Leafs. It was predictable as can be. Even notwithstanding that, I think folks are sleeping on him a bit because of the Islanders unimpressive overall performance. He is a truly elite centreman and to add him in his prime without spending an asset was a coup. Marner has been one of the best passers in the game since coming into the league and with the high hockey IQ between the pair it should be a fruitful matchup. If he has better chemistry with Willy and Marner plays with Papi, that's cool as well. Both kids are top line players. Either way assuming health JT's very likely headed for a career high in points and a very productive next 5 seasons with the kids just entering their primes.

As weird as it is, some Leafs fans just don't know how good Matthews really is. As I said earlier, the kid's the best even strength goal scorer in the league as a 20-year-old who's 41st in ice-time among centers. I'm not sure folks really grasp how incredible that is. I've even read nonsense on our board about how maybe Matthews just isn't that good on the PP?!?! Look, Pittsburgh's PP was middle of the pack (yes, even with Crosby and Malkin) until Kessel came to town and made it the best PP in the league. Matthews 100% needs to be on the PP with Marner and Tavares. Marner QB's a PP very similar to Kessel and Tavares and Matthews are masters at burying those goals from in close. It seriously annoys me when this fanbase underrates their own players to "keep expectations tempered." LOL guys, come on, we're not in the Burke/Nonis era anymore. Our team is legitimate now, high expectations are now the norm. And I have VERY high expectations for Matthews with what he's shown us thus far.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

was this for the playoffs or regular season ?