Are Leaf fans prepared to do a proper rebuild?
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Bomber0104
Registered User
Then you pick 2nd overall and get a wicked player, too?
Murray, Landeskog, Seguin, Hedman, Doughty have been the past five.
Two already have Cups so far in their careers.
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,167
- 6,215
Oh so now you're guaranteeing us 2nd overall? Golly gee willikers, if only I'd known BEFORE I posted.....
ULF_55
Moderator
I think they've gone through a hybrid rebuild.
If Nonis doesn't see a Cup in the core of this team he should definitely start unloading.
Lupul, Liles, Lombardi, Steckel should be shopped immediately.
You could include some youth, as long as youth is coming back. As an example say it took Lupul and Gardiner to land Doughty. Not saying either team would do that, just an example of getting youth for youth.
If Nonis doesn't see a Cup in the core of this team he should definitely start unloading.
Lupul, Liles, Lombardi, Steckel should be shopped immediately.
You could include some youth, as long as youth is coming back. As an example say it took Lupul and Gardiner to land Doughty. Not saying either team would do that, just an example of getting youth for youth.
Bomber0104
Registered User
The Leafs are bad enough to be 2nd last.
It happened just three years ago.
And they were just a few points shy of it last season.
Lots of great players in this draft.
Bomber0104
Registered User
I'd be willing to trade all four of those players for Nathan MacKinnon or Seth Jones directly.
So imagine getting Nathan MacKinnon or Seth Jones, and all the returns from each of those players getting traded (esp. Lupul).
I'm not counting on it. I'm just saying we should wait and see before unloading contracts. When the popular FA destinations such as NYR, Philly, Pittsburgh etc are pretty close to the cap we have a great advantage as we can offer them 8m per year easily. That is why we should wait.
ULF_55
Moderator
Except, MacKinnon isn't available, and no one is trading him after they draft him for players the Leafs would be dumping.
The Winter Soldier
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2011
- 71,030
- 21,383
If we keep signing 34 year old former Hobey Baker winners, Macinnon may just fall into our laps.
ULF_55
Moderator
If we keep signing 34 year old former Hobey Baker winners, Macinnon may just fall into our laps.
I just don't see this team sucking enough to get into the lottery, but with luck.
Okay, Leafs and LUCK?
Like the Devils using their back-up against the Islanders on the last game of the year and losing in a shoot-out luck!!!
The Podium
Registered User
Hey hey hey, its almost a decade later and theyre being punished now
Brodeurs done, Parise's gone, Kovy doesnt want to come back, they have to forefit a 1st either this or next year I feel bad for them.
Mess
Global Moderator
If the days of trading 2nd round pick in a strong draft for a 31 year old veteran Dman and then signing him to a 4 year contract extension, and now having him as a top amnesty buyout candidate are behind us, then that is a step in the right direction already towards a draft rebuild. No more 4th rounders dumped needlessly for Steckel and Lombardi depth players from a bottom 5 team sacrifices need to be made going forward.
The draft picks sacrificed in order to secure a bottom 5 team has been ridiculous for a team to remotely claim its building through the draft process, and helps explain a prospect pool in the bottom 1/3 of the league by scouts.
Nonis claims he is "more patient" so we shall hold him at his word until he proves that statement by his actions incorrect.
If prognosticators who have Leafs finishing near the bottom of the league standings with this current roster are correct, then that will return another high 1st round draft pick and building block piece towards a proper rebuild.
The draft picks sacrificed in order to secure a bottom 5 team has been ridiculous for a team to remotely claim its building through the draft process, and helps explain a prospect pool in the bottom 1/3 of the league by scouts.
Nonis claims he is "more patient" so we shall hold him at his word until he proves that statement by his actions incorrect.
If prognosticators who have Leafs finishing near the bottom of the league standings with this current roster are correct, then that will return another high 1st round draft pick and building block piece towards a proper rebuild.
as for being ready for a rebuild if it goes rhat way yes. As presently construted especially with what is currently in net Leafs have a realistic chance of drafting 1st overall which means mackinion is realistic.
adding him would give the Leafs a core going forward of Mackion, kessel Reilley Gardiner, JVR pretty damn nice.
If kessel doesn't want to stay you trade him at the draft for a pretty big package.
Even if we drafted 2nd or 3rd this team could be on track in 2 seasons
adding him would give the Leafs a core going forward of Mackion, kessel Reilley Gardiner, JVR pretty damn nice.
If kessel doesn't want to stay you trade him at the draft for a pretty big package.
Even if we drafted 2nd or 3rd this team could be on track in 2 seasons
Wendelstache
Registered User
- May 5, 2010
- 9,897
- 3,834
You may need to update the terminology you use to get in line with the way thinks work now in the NHL. Previously, bottom 5 picks were called "lottery picks" because they were the only ones with a shot at the number 1 pick. However, now all 14 non-playoff teams could win the number 1 pick in the lottery, so techinically all non-playoff teams would be "in the lottery".
stakesishigh
how swede it is
Exactly! How has not building through the draft and not developing our own players worked out for us so far.
613Leafer
Registered User
- May 26, 2008
- 13,031
- 3,979
It wouldnt be as long a rebuild as was required before. A few reasons:
-Rielly is a better prospect than anything we had back then
-More overall prospect depth
-there are multiple pieces on the roster of high value. Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Bozak, and MacArthur together have much more value than Karberle, Kubina, Antropov, Stajan, etc did.
-we're in January already, so only 6 months from the draft where we will very likely add a big piece, especially if we sell our UfAs + Kessel this season
-Rielly is a better prospect than anything we had back then
-More overall prospect depth
-there are multiple pieces on the roster of high value. Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Bozak, and MacArthur together have much more value than Karberle, Kubina, Antropov, Stajan, etc did.
-we're in January already, so only 6 months from the draft where we will very likely add a big piece, especially if we sell our UfAs + Kessel this season
1. people just said the same thing about Schenn 4 years ago
2. Our prospects 4 years ago were rated higher in a list created by professional nhl scouts... also, the Marlies team back then had a substantially better season (albeit winning one less game in the playoffs)
3. The only player of any really strong trade value is Kessel... and we dramatically overpaid to get him
4. i agree with this one
firstemperor
Registered User
- May 25, 2011
- 8,755
- 1,445
It depends on how you define rebuild. This team doesn't need a nuke. If organically, this team falters and gets a top 5 pick then you continue to build the farm. However, the main focus should be to accumulate assets/talent at the end of the day and build toward a winner. Right now, we are in the stage where acquiring assets/talent first is key- a move analogous to the type A.A made this year with the jays is not in the book yet, obviously.
Bomber0104
Registered User
Not what I meant.
Shopping Lupul, Liles, and Steckel would make the Leafs even worse than they are right now. Getting rid of Lupul will impact Kessel's performance...Liles the PP...Steckel the PK/faceoffs.
So we drop in the standings by doing worse and grab a better prospect to be part of a winning core in the future...if we're lucky MacKinnon...if not Jones...if not someone else.
And we get picks and prospects for those three players which hopefully may turn out at least one core player for the future.
All this team needs is a Kessel trade and lottery pick this year to have a great young core.
Kessel for Kassian, Schneider, 1st round pick
Draft Monahan with a lottery pick, Domi with Vancouver's 1st, Horvat with Leafs' 2nd
Centre
Monahan
Kadri
Domi
Horvat
Wing
Van-Riemsdyk
Kassian
Frattin
Biggs
Ashton
Defense
Rielly
Finn
Gardiner
Percy
Nilsson
Goaltending
Schneider
Reimer
Kessel for Kassian, Schneider, 1st round pick
Draft Monahan with a lottery pick, Domi with Vancouver's 1st, Horvat with Leafs' 2nd
Centre
Monahan
Kadri
Domi
Horvat
Wing
Van-Riemsdyk
Kassian
Frattin
Biggs
Ashton
Defense
Rielly
Finn
Gardiner
Percy
Nilsson
Goaltending
Schneider
Reimer
613Leafer
Registered User
- May 26, 2008
- 13,031
- 3,979
1- Schenn was 1-dimensional. Non-Leaf fans (more objective outside views) had him pegged as probably a really solid 2nd pairing guy, maybe a secondary top pairing D. I would say both us and other fan bases consider Rielly a better prospect than what people thought about Schenn after he was drafted
2- The person that does the Toronto rankings for HF has changed since 4 years ago. The newer person is considered to be considerably less biased in his analyses. The ranking 4 years ago was also buoyed by Bozak/Gustavvson who were considered "prospects". Not to mention our most important key recent graduate would have been something like Grabo or Ian White. Gardiner fills that role now and is considered to have a higher ceiling
3- Complaining about what we paid for Kessel has no influence on the fact that he has much more value than Kaberle had, so if we wanted to do a full rebuild, we would get more value, even if it came with belly-aching. Phaneuf would still have strong value, he's not the same projected franchise guy from when he started, but he's rebounded recently and considering the cap has gone up over 4 years, his caphit isnt considered to be as bad. Lupul could probably get a 1st + prospect at the deadline (Gaustad got a 1st last year for example..). If he's PPG again this season or even close to that, then he could be one of the bigger deadline pieces. Bozak/Mac have decent value, but would take years to realize the trade value (if ever). Still gives us assets
4 - yep. I think the next 6 months are critical for this franchise. 6 UFA forwards, this draft is considered to be a very very good one, if we trade for Luongo vs not trade for him, that will have huge longterm implications, etc.
Winreims
Registered User
- Dec 31, 2011
- 1,942
- 2
We are also "good enough" to finish 9th-11th in the East. This shortened season will be a crapshoot. No one is guaranteed a bottom 3 finish, least of all us.
Bomber0104
Registered User
That's your opinion. My opinion is that since we finished 5th last, 9th last, and 2nd last the past three years we are really bad.
All I know is that no body wants a Jiri Tlusty pick.
Nathan MacKinnon would be much better for the future of this team.
