OT: Anything Goes 40

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Profit gouging.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I've just never seen such massive fluctuations over such a short period of time.

And if this shit keeps up, maybe it's time to nationalize the fuel industry. It's out of control.

They should have nationalized it back when they went after Rockefeller. Just imagine how many more social programs would exist and how much more retirees would get from social security.

And the Oil and Gas companies absolutely raised the gas prices on purpose a week before the election. This is political war.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Just a reminder for those that haven't early voted yet but are legally eligible to vote, please remember to vote tomorrow. There's a lot on the ballot at the local, state, and federal levels regardless of your political outlook.

Let's leave it at that, though. No politics rule still applies, but it ain't political to remind folks of the importance of their civic duties.

 

[southsideIrish]

Not so much 'supply and demand' as it is 'we'll charge however much we damn well please and you can't do anything about it! '.

That's the easy answer but it's totally wrong. Google "why are gas prices so high" and see what comes up. Supply is down and demand is way up. Not to mention OPEC cut production by over two million bbl a day which caused a spike. The midwest should see some improvement hopefully soon as some refineries that were down for maintenance work are coming back online and can produce more. But other parts of the country as I said may be in for a very rough winter esp. with diesel.

 

[CallMeShaft]

That's the easy answer but it's totally wrong. Google "why are gas prices so high" and see what comes up. Supply is down and demand is way up. Not to mention OPEC cut production by over two million bbl a day which caused a spike. The midwest should see some improvement hopefully soon as some refineries that were down for maintenance work are coming back online and can produce more. But other parts of the country as I said may be in for a very rough winter esp. with diesel.

When companies like Shell and Exxon are making record profits each quarter, sometimes even doubling their profits over the equivalent quarter from the year prior, then yeah, it's because gas and oil companies do what the f*** they want, despite the long term damage it does to the economy.

 

[ChiHawks10]

When companies like Shell and Exxon are making record profits each quarter, sometimes even doubling their profits over the equivalent quarter from the year prior, then yeah, it's because gas and oil companies do what the f*** they want, despite the long term damage it does to the economy.

This.

 

[Pez68]

That's the easy answer but it's totally wrong. Google "why are gas prices so high" and see what comes up. Supply is down and demand is way up. Not to mention OPEC cut production by over two million bbl a day which caused a spike. The midwest should see some improvement hopefully soon as some refineries that were down for maintenance work are coming back online and can produce more. But other parts of the country as I said may be in for a very rough winter esp. with diesel.

Supply is down, but profits have never been higher. Demand is not "way up" when you look at a year by year picture. Consumption plateaued around 2018, and current consumption is still WELL BELOW that level. The answer is greed (it always has been)

It always blows my mind that people will actually try to blame anything other than "oil companies are greedy, evil pieces of shit" for the prices at the pump.

 

[hawksrule]

That's the easy answer but it's totally wrong. Google "why are gas prices so high" and see what comes up. Supply is down and demand is way up. Not to mention OPEC cut production by over two million bbl a day which caused a spike. The midwest should see some improvement hopefully soon as some refineries that were down for maintenance work are coming back online and can produce more. But other parts of the country as I said may be in for a very rough winter esp. with diesel.

Fluctuations in price relating to supply and demand are far less absolute when measuring highly inelastic goods.

 

[southsideIrish]

Supply is down, but profits have never been higher. Demand is not "way up" when you look at a year by year picture. Consumption plateaued around 2018, and current consumption is still WELL BELOW that level. The answer is greed (it always has been)

It always blows my mind that people will actually try to blame anything other than "oil companies are greedy, evil pieces of shit" for the prices at the pump.

Does anyone even look this stuff up? It's very easy to google it or look on the US Energy Administration site. About 60% of the retail price of gas is made up by the price of crude oil, which is determined by global supply & demand. Right now supply is extremely tight due to the war and many other factors, which probably can't be discussed here.

Do the oil companies profit when the price of oil is high? Of course. That doesn't mean they're gouging and every time someone says they are, there's zero evidence for it. Nor do giants like Exxon or Shell set the prices at the station on the corner. Furthermore, when global supply is down, like in 2020, the oil companies conversely lose shitloads of money. For example during the pandemic Exxon lost over 22 billion. Did we hear much howling about evil oil companies then?

Like I said all this is easily researched and having been an industry analyst for over 20 years I've seen ebbs and flows like this numerous times. But if people are convinced it's the evil oil companies then so be it.

 

[Pez68]

Does anyone even look this stuff up? It's very easy to google it or look on the US Energy Administration site. About 60% of the retail price of gas is made up by the price of crude oil, which is determined by global supply & demand. Right now supply is extremely tight due to the war and many other factors, which probably can't be discussed here.

Do the oil companies profit when the price of oil is high? Of course. That doesn't mean they're gouging and every time someone says they are, there's zero evidence for it. Nor do giants like Exxon or Shell set the prices at the station on the corner. Furthermore, when global supply is down, like in 2020, the oil companies conversely lose shitloads of money. For example during the pandemic Exxon lost over 22 billion. Did we hear much howling about evil oil companies then?

Like I said all this is easily researched and having been an industry analyst for over 20 years I've seen ebbs and flows like this numerous times. But if people are convinced it's the evil oil companies then so be it.

Gasoline and oil consumption is down since 2019. Oil companies are artificially limiting oil and gasoline supply to maintain high prices. They are CHOOSING not to increase production. Which is why their profits continue to be at record highs despite selling less oil and gasoline. This is not rocket science.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/24/energy/gas-prices-oil-production-wall-street/index.html

P.S. What they lost in 2020 they made up in a SINGLE QUARTER.

 

[Putt Pirate]

Gasoline and oil consumption is down since 2019. Oil companies are artificially limiting oil and gasoline supply to maintain high prices. They are CHOOSING not to increase production. Which is why their profits continue to be at record highs despite selling less oil and gasoline. This is not rocket science.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/24/energy/gas-prices-oil-production-wall-street/index.html

P.S. What they lost in 2020 they made up in a SINGLE QUARTER.

You had me til I saw CNN as your source.

Yes, consumption is down. But yes, production is down...drilling rights were pulled a couple years ago, war, no fracking, etc. since this administration came in and waged war on that industry. It is more expensive to produce it as is oil per barrel than 2 years ago. It is more than just 'driving less'.

 

[CallMeShaft]

You had me til I saw CNN as your source.

Yes, consumption is down. But yes, production is down...drilling rights were pulled a couple years ago, war, no fracking, etc. since this administration came in and waged war on that industry. It is more expensive to produce it as is oil per barrel than 2 years ago. It is more than just 'driving less'.

And CNN is lying to you about this because?...

 

[Pez68]

You had me til I saw CNN as your source.

Yes, consumption is down. But yes, production is down...drilling rights were pulled a couple years ago, war, no fracking, etc. since this administration came in and waged war on that industry. It is more expensive to produce it as is oil per barrel than 2 years ago. It is more than just 'driving less'.

If you weren't lazy, you could find 5 other sources that aren't CNN that say the same thing. You also realize this is CNN business, right? I am not a CNN fan either, but this is a totally separate wing of the organization, reporting on a survey from the Dallas Fed.

Here's one for you:

Most oil executives say Wall Street — not the government — is preventing US energy producers from boosting output more

In a survey, 59% of oil executives said investors' demands for capital discipline are restraining growth while just 6% blamed government regulations.

markets.businessinsider.com

• More than half of oil executives blame investor pressure to maintain capital discipline for holding back growth despite high prices.

• By contrast, just 6% blamed government regulations, according to a survey from the Dallas Fed.

Here's another one for you:

Eying strong year-end prices, U.S. oil firms accelerate activity- Fed Survey

Activity in the oil and gas sector accelerated in the first quarter as company outlooks improved, according to a survey of oil executives released on Wednesday by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

www.reuters.com

The average oil price needed to cover operating expenses for an existing well was $34 a barrel, respondents said, up roughly 10% from last year. The average price needed to profitably drill a new well was $56 a barrel, up about 8% from last year. More than 40% of respondents said oil prices will need to be between $80 and $99 a barrel to push publicly traded firms to significantly increase their production. Nearly 60% of those surveyed said pressure from shareholders to increase returns remains the primary driver behind public companies' reluctance to expand output.

U.S. producers reluctant to drill more oil, despite sky-high gas prices

Rather than give consumers relief at the pump, many oil and gas executives are sending profits to investors.

www.cbsnews.com

As to why they weren't drilling more, oil executives blamed Wall Street. Nearly 60% cited "investor pressure to maintain capital discipline" as the primary reason oil companies weren't drilling more despite skyrocketing prices, according to the Dallas Fed survey.

Only 11% cited environmental, social or governance issues; 8% said they had difficulty getting financing; 15% cited other reasons.

This is right from the mouths of the oil CEOs.... There's no f***ing spin here. They are outright admitting that they aren't expanding output because their f***ing shareholders want oil between $80 and $99 a barrel(or higher).

It's price gouging and greed. It's certainly not "the administration" as Fox News would have you believe.

 

[Putt Pirate]

And CNN is lying to you about this because?...

I trust no news org. They are very left leaning and Fox is very right leaning. CNN obviously has an agenda and I see through their BS. Use at your own risk.

If you weren't lazy, you could find 5 other sources that aren't CNN that say the same thing. You also realize this is CNN business, right? I am not a CNN fan either, but this is a totally separate wing of the organization, reporting on a survey from the Dallas Fed.

Here's one for you:

Most oil executives say Wall Street — not the government — is preventing US energy producers from boosting output more

In a survey, 59% of oil executives said investors' demands for capital discipline are restraining growth while just 6% blamed government regulations.

markets.businessinsider.com

Here's another one for you:

Eying strong year-end prices, U.S. oil firms accelerate activity- Fed Survey

Activity in the oil and gas sector accelerated in the first quarter as company outlooks improved, according to a survey of oil executives released on Wednesday by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

www.reuters.com

This is right from the mouths of the oil CEOs.... There's no f***ing spin here. They are outright admitting that they aren't expanding output because their f***ing shareholders want oil between $80 and $99 a barrel.

It's price gouging and greed.

What has OPEC done recently? since we are more reliant on them than a couple years ago?

CNN biz is CNN. Full stop. Don't even try that on me. Why not post a quote from Fox Biz then?!

 

[Pez68]

I trust no news org. They are very left leaning and Fox is very right leaning. CNN obviously has an agenda and I see through their BS. Use at your own risk.


What has OPEC done recently? since we are more reliant on them than a couple years ago?

CNN biz is CNN. Full stop. Don't even try that on me. Why not post a quote from Fox Biz then?!

I just posted three other sources.

Edit: Oh, so you're one of those crazies. Got it.

 

[Putt Pirate]

I just posted three other sources.

Edit: Oh, so you're one of those crazies. Got it.

Really. You are one of 'those' too I guess. I go to the fricking source not what the left or right wants you to believe. I am able to do that because I do work in that area 1/3 of the time.

I'll stick to hockey talk rather than this.

 

[Pez68]

Really. You are one of 'those' too I guess. I go to the fricking source not what the left or right wants you to believe. I am able to do that because I do work in that area 1/3 of the time.

I'll stick to hockey talk rather than this.

I just gave you three other sources that weren't CNN that you completely ignored because they don't fit the narrative that you want to believe. I'm one of those people who believes in facts, logic, and common sense explanations.

P.S. OPEC is doing exactly what the shareholders want them to do, just like domestic oil companies. They're all in it together.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Really. You are one of 'those' too I guess. I go to the fricking source not what the left or right wants you to believe. I am able to do that because I do work in that area 1/3 of the time.

I'll stick to hockey talk rather than this.

You go to the source?

So does that mean you talked to all the oil tycoons in the world and asked them what was wrong?

 

[Pez68]

You go to the source?

So does that mean you talked to all the oil tycoons in the world and asked them what was wrong?

That's what the survey that all of these news orgs are citing did, actually. But you know, don't trust any news orgs.

Also, only about 11% of US oil and crude products comes from OPEC.

 

[Putt Pirate]

You go to the source?

So does that mean you talked to all the oil tycoons in the world and asked them what was wrong?

Well, I do deal with the 'source' so yes, I do work with my clients in that industry. Publicly held companies are not owned by tycoons but investors like you, me, etc. But keep on with you attempt at comedy.....or showing your ignorance.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Well, I do deal with the 'source' so yes, I do work with my clients in that industry. Publicly held companies are not owned by tycoons but investors like you, me, etc. But keep on with you attempt at comedy.....or showing your ignorance.

So what, are you really asking these investors if they are against these companies doubling their profits year over year?

I gave you a sarcastic response because that's what your comment warranted. Maybe don't denounce a story from a reputable organization just because you don't like their political lean and perhaps people here won't give you such a hard time about it.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Well, I do deal with the 'source' so yes, I do work with my clients in that industry. Publicly held companies are not owned by tycoons but investors like you, me, etc. But keep on with you attempt at comedy.....or showing your ignorance.

This is absolute nonsense. it's such a small percentage owned by the "you and me". The vast majority of shares/stock are held by investment companies(where it's highly likely that 1 or 2 people within that investment company own the majority of the oil company's shares), essentially giving them full control of the oil company, and by the inside ownership like Boards of Directors, and other executive-level people.

I'd bet that "people like you and me" own less than 10 or 15% of these companies. It's absolutely hilarious that you believe that these companies are controlled by the little investors, and not the uber rich and the insiders of the company. If that's the case, I got some beach front property to sell you in Arizona.

 

[Putt Pirate]

So what, are you really asking these investors if they are against these companies doubling their profits year over year?

I gave you a sarcastic response because that's what your comment warranted. Maybe don't denounce a story from a reputable organization just because you don't like their political lean and perhaps people here won't give you such a hard time about it.

I did not see anyone on this forum bitch about Apple when their profits went from $57Bn in 2020 to $94bn in 2021. They are there to make a profit as are the oil companies. I don't behoove them that.

I LOL the second one. That is why Discovery is reformatting them. Because they are so reputable. Get a grip FFS. BBC is a wonderful place to get news that isn't skewed one way or another and one give both sides. That might not work for you though the way you are coming at me.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I did not see anyone on this forum bitch about Apple when their profits went from $57Bn in 2020 to $94bn in 2021. They are there to make a profit as are the oil companies. I don't behoove them that.

I LOL the second one. That is why Discovery is reformatting them. Because they are so reputable. Get a grip FFS. BBC is a wonderful place to get news that isn't skewed one way or another and one give both sides. That might not work for you though the way you are coming at me.

People don't need apple products to go to work and pick up their kids. Profit gouging isn't exclusive to oil companies but this is going to get very political very quickly.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I did not see anyone on this forum bitch about Apple when their profits went from $57Bn in 2020 to $94bn in 2021. They are there to make a profit as are the oil companies. I don't behoove them that.

I LOL the second one. That is why Discovery is reformatting them. Because they are so reputable. Get a grip FFS. BBC is a wonderful place to get news that isn't skewed one way or another and one give both sides. That might not work for you though the way you are coming at me.

Apple prices don't impact day-to-day lives of the vast majority of Americans, from the poorest all the way up.