Anyone Else Get 2019-2020 Vibes From This Team?

[Nineteen67]

Hard to believe Matthews and Marner are almost 27 yo, Nylander 28 and they still haven’t been able to build a good team around them.

 

[Nineteen67]

In one offseason, we went from a comfortable playoff team over the past ~3 years to a team scrapping for the wild card.

Tre looked at the roster and tried to improve secondary scoring and grit. That gutted our defensive abilities, which is very apparent, and the toughness/scoring hasn't come through. We also had a roster with versatility - PK options, guys who can play multiple positions, etc.. now you're largely locked into a certain roster because that's been lost.

I get shitting on playoff success, but to suggest Tre was helpless by the misfortune of inheriting a top seed in the East with all of its core locked up for the year is insanity.

We knew they needed to rebuild last summer because there was no need to sign anyone on an expiring contract.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

This is a hopeless team right now.

What they need is almost impossible to acquire before the trade deadline. I feel most fans realize this too and would love to hit the fast-forward button on this season.

There was a time when it could have been solved around the core four but that window is gone. Until they break these guys up, it's not happening.

This is the reality of the situation but sadly the Leafs don't have a Vegas-style management team so they've been spinning their wheels for the past few years.

 

[Menzinger]

I think the 2019-20 comparison is an interesting one and probably fair given how lackluster the in ngs have been.

I think we're being a bit too easy with giving Tre a pass. The fact is wed probably be seeing a better season if they had better spent their free agency money.

I'm also surprised how so many folks think we can know playoff outcomes by how a team is playing in February. This is a league where Presidents trophy winners routinely flop early in the playoffs, where other teams go from almost missing the postseason to going to the cup finals the same year.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Benoit looks decent for where he is in the line-up.
Gregor could likely be replaced by a call-up.

However, yeah, Klingberg, Domi, Bertuzzi, Reaves that's quite a bad run of signings.

But as said, mostly 1 and done contracts.

In fairness, Klingberg got injured and Bert and Domi are collectively playing below expectations based on their history. I was jacked when we signed them but they can't seem to gel with this team.

 

[OddyOh]

Hard to believe Matthews and Marner are almost 27 yo, Nylander 28 and they still haven’t been able to build a good team around them.

And they have the same coach.

EDIT: lol just realized I’ve blocked the entire Babcock era out of my mind. Good for me.

 

[GoonieFace]

I think the 2019-20 comparison is an interesting one and probably fair given how lackluster the in ngs have been.

I think we're being a bit too easy with giving Tre a pass. The fact is wed probably be seeing a better season if they had better spent their free agency money.

I'm also surprised how so many folks think we can know playoff outcomes by how a team is playing in February. This is a league where Presidents trophy winners routinely flop early in the playoffs, where other teams go from almost missing the postseason to going to the cup finals the same year.

Hindsight is 20/20, but the free agency class last summer was pure garbage. Potential for a lot better this summer, but tough sledding with the cap situation

 

[Larcos_Unal]

They're just not good enough as a team

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not feeling any kind of "vibe" at all from this team. It's like a burnt piece of toast that nobody has any interest in so it's just sitting there, waiting for someone to feed it to the racoons.

 

[TMLAM34]

This is definitely the worst team in the Matthews era. Our depth players have no roles, our blueline is aging and bad and our goaltending is a complete disaster. Our star players aside from Rielly are overpaid and our captain has regressed into a third liner. Things are looking down instead of up with this group.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

This year's Florida

 

[fahad203]

That team was likeable. This team isn't.

Beyond the top 3, I can't count on anyone to do anything. Even that's stretching it
That 2019 team at least had speed.
Freddy Andersen was somewhat consistent. Our goaltending right now is a horror show

THis team is very hard to get excited for. Just nothing there

 

[Ianturnedbull]

In my opinion, that team is the weakest one TOR has had during the Matthews era (with the 2017 version being marginally better).

This year's team is definitely the weakest one since 2020 and also reminds me of that year's team. The defense is pretty bad both on paper and on the ice and the non-top four forwards collectively don't score enough.

The 2020 team might or might not have made the playoffs in a full season. It lost in five games to Columbus in a qualifying series. I don't see this year's team doing much if any better.

I have to agree. They could possibly miss, and after that CBJ series they did. It feels this way at times because middle of the pack teams have these moments.

 

[LeafEgo]

Going into the playoffs a top pairing d man and Woll coming back strong puts us as least equal to any previous iteration since Washington. If we don't do that it'll be rough goings.

Last years team pre acquisitions was no better than what we have now. Both first rounders.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Last years team pre acquisitions was no better than what we have now.

Last year's team pre-acquisitions: 110 point pace
What we have now: 98 point pace

 

[Niagara Bill]

The game has changed. In the 2019 era, the league was moving towards speed, scoring, non violent play, Mitchy was the prototypical player. The problem was the officiating still has a belief in the playoffs to let the players decide the game, so the rules change, Mitchy, McDavid etc become less effective without stout teams and team mates. So everyone begins to find Patrick Maroons. A race to the goons who can play in that environment.
The NFL successfully changed rules and officials to protect QBs and the game changed from Bart Starr, Joe Namath, Dan Marino who couldn't walk, to Mahommes, Allen, etc.
It is easy to see that Maroon is more valued in the playoffs than Mitchy.
Tanev is considered valued even though he cannot skate. On ice justice happens every time someone takes a clean skilled hit. If your team cannot stand up to that during the season, in the playoffs you are done. Instigator penalties are NEVER, part of the game. A good hit and some guy from the other end of the rink heads 150 ft to seek revenge and that is ok?
Leafs core cannot play that game, the bottom 6 don't seem to ever want to take on that role, why? That is another question.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It is easy to see that Maroon is more valued in the playoffs than Mitchy.

Lmao. No, the 4th liner that Tampa traded away with retention and a prospect for a 7th round pick to a non-playoff team is very obviously not more valued in the playoffs than one of the best players in the world.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Lmao. No, the 4th liner that Tampa traded away with retention and a prospect for a 7th round pick to a non-playoff team is very obviously not more valued in the playoffs than one of the best players in the world.

Without Maroon types on the team you get beat in the first round most years. With Maroon types you win far more playoff games. A team built like the Leafs losses, refer to history.
Mitchy is obviously more skilled, but the game changes and while he is necessary, He cannot win without being defended. Maroon can win without Mitchy. Refer to Vegas playoff run.
So, as Mitchys agent you should call Shanny and implore him to get a few Maroons, or your Mitchy will never win. 56 yrs and out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Without Maroon types on the team you get beat in the first round most years. With Maroon types you win far more playoff games.

Maroon types have very little impact on whether a team wins playoff games or not. Obviously massively less impact than one of the best players in the world.

A team built like the Leafs losses, refer to history.

Historically, teams built like the Leafs win more than they lose.

Maroon can win without Mitchy. Refer to Vegas playoff run.

Maroon was not on Vegas. Maroon lost... to the Leafs, before being dumped to a non-playoff team in the offseason. And Vegas' win was not caused by "Maroon-type" players.

you should call Shanny and implore him to get a few Maroons

We've had a number of players like Maroon over the years.

 

[Obo]

On ice justice happens every time someone takes a clean skilled hit.

This drives me nuts. Never used to happen, even back in the tough old days.

 

[Nineteen67]

They're just not good enough as a team

Best Leafs podcast there is.

 

[Nineteen67]

This year's Florida

Florida were the President trophy winners the previous year and took a while to gel last year and they were playing the right way were hot going into the playoffs.

Do you think this team can do that? Maybe?

 

[Nineteen67]

The game has changed. In the 2019 era, the league was moving towards speed, scoring, non violent play, Mitchy was the prototypical player. The problem was the officiating still has a belief in the playoffs to let the players decide the game, so the rules change, Mitchy, McDavid etc become less effective without stout teams and team mates. So everyone begins to find Patrick Maroons. A race to the goons who can play in that environment.
The NFL successfully changed rules and officials to protect QBs and the game changed from Bart Starr, Joe Namath, Dan Marino who couldn't walk, to Mahommes, Allen, etc.
It is easy to see that Maroon is more valued in the playoffs than Mitchy.
Tanev is considered valued even though he cannot skate. On ice justice happens every time someone takes a clean skilled hit. If your team cannot stand up to that during the season, in the playoffs you are done. Instigator penalties are NEVER, part of the game. A good hit and some guy from the other end of the rink heads 150 ft to seek revenge and that is ok?
Leafs core cannot play that game, the bottom 6 don't seem to ever want to take on that role, why? That is another question.

Thankfully they allow them to play in the playoffs. The best final in years was Boston and St Louis and I’d rather watch that than Marner figure skating.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Florida were the President trophy winners the previous year and took a while to gel last year and they were playing the right way were hot going into the playoffs.
Do you think this team can do that?

Top tier team that takes a step back the next season before getting hot and riding a top tier goaltending performance to the finals.
Not exactly likely, but just as possible as it was for Florida.

 

[Shooter2x]

I think the 2019-20 comparison is an interesting one and probably fair given how lackluster the in ngs have been.

I think we're being a bit too easy with giving Tre a pass. The fact is wed probably be seeing a better season if they had better spent their free agency money.

I'm also surprised how so many folks think we can know playoff outcomes by how a team is playing in February. This is a league where Presidents trophy winners routinely flop early in the playoffs, where other teams go from almost missing the postseason to going to the cup finals the same year.

If you look at the ufa list and put yourself back in summer, it's hard to argue against choosing bertuzzi and domi, even more so if you want to stick to guys under 30. Klingberg flopped but the "why" is understandable. Got lucky with LTIR.


Domi is excellent for his bottom 6 role if you ask me though. Robertson wouldn't even have majority of his points without Domi down there.