Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024-25 season thread)

[tbrown33]

He was already way down the batting order, going to be near impossible to crack the lineup once he comes back unless someone else gets injured.

You are underestimating this team's ability to get injured.

 

[tbrown33]

And before anyone says it's the PLD effect, note he was even WORSE away from PLD

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Joe Patarino on twitter was tracking shot assists all season - I think he had PLD leading the team in slot assists. He probably would have had ~10 more assists with a league average winger.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Joe Patarino on twitter was tracking shot assists all season - I think he had PLD leading the team in slot assists. He probably would have had ~10 more assists with a league average winger.

there are some players that perfectly demonstrate why getting caught up on numbers and a spread sheet view of the game is totally worthless

 

[tbrown33]

there are some players that perfectly demonstrate why getting caught up on numbers and a spread sheet view of the game is totally worthless

lol do you care to elaborate? Laferriere lead the team in individual high danger chances at 5v5 bc he was fed a lot of chances.

 

[All The Kings Men]

lol do you care to elaborate? Laferriere lead the team in individual high danger chances at 5v5 bc he was fed a lot of chances.

I don't wanna hear any statistical arguments about Pierre-Luc Dubois

 

[tbrown33]

I don't wanna hear any statistical arguments about Pierre-Luc Dubois

1. Pierre Luc Dubois was very bad and no one is disputing that
2. His linemates sucked too and there's enough evidence to suggest he would have produced more points with players who were better than league average.

You handwaving relevant statistics doesn't change that, esp since you are a Kings employee. "I don't wanna hear" it from anyone on the payroll.

 

[bland]

Any argument that Dubois was held back by a rookie with zero pro experience who did ALL of the work on his line is beyond laughable.

 

[tbrown33]

Any argument that Dubois was held back by a rookie with zero pro experience who did ALL of the work on his line is beyond laughable.

No one is saying "held back." I said he'd have some more assists if he had a more capable linemate receiving the same slot opportunities. Laferriere was mostly an anchor on any line he played on.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I don’t think he’s arguing that Laf is the best fit for PP1, more that you don't automatically put the best 5 skill guys on the line which I agree with. They system the run will have 5 ‘roles’ on the unit and they are unlikely to be filled by the top 5 skilled player.

FWIW I’m not convinced Laf is the right guy for pp1 but I’m ok with him on the top line. I’ve been high on him since we drafted him and he’s grown and developed each year. I was very confident he’d make it and I do see him as a potential middle six guy, similar in value to Iaffalo and perhaps a little more. He’s a very coachable guy so he’s certainly worth a look with Kopi but Hiller will mix it up if needed, he’s got plenty of form for it.

I do agree QB needs a major pp role. If pp2 gets a decent share of each 2 mins (50 seconds ish) I’d be fine with him running pp2, but if not I think he should (and will) end up on pp1.

I hear you. I dont know - my assessment of Laf is he is a good puck carrier, good speed, good tenacity.. but noticeably imparied in offensive creativity.. very one dimensional, cant find the open guy in the o-zone, sort of Dustin Brownish North/South game but without any finish. That isnt the kind of guy i want on PP1 / half court offense .. ever. But 100% agree Im willing to see what happens - just on the face off it - seems like a bad fit. What I love about QB in that role (assuming its the net front fole).. is his size, reach, tenacity and offensive instincts... seems like a better fit. But i wont beat that horse any more for now.

 

[Lt Dan]

I don't wanna hear any statistical arguments about Pierre-Luc Dubois

Can we argue about how much PLD looks like Dick Dastardly?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No one is saying "held back." I said he'd have some more assists if he had a more capable linemate receiving the same slot opportunities. Laferriere was mostly an anchor on any line he played on.

As evidenced by every one of lafs metrics being worse AWAY FROM PLD

I feel like no one is lettting that sink in

Again I like the guy but Christ he’d better get better and quickly

 

[All The Kings Men]

You handwaving relevant statistics doesn't change that, esp since you are a Kings employee. "I don't wanna hear" it from anyone on the payroll.

THAT'S fair.

The rest of it? Not so sure.

 

[tbrown33]

THAT'S fair.

The rest of it? Not so sure.

"not so sure" should be your tagline because all you do is speak in riddles

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't wanna hear any statistical arguments about Pierre-Luc Dubois

Any argument that Dubois was held back by a rookie with zero pro experience who did ALL of the work on his line is beyond laughable.

Come on, guys. Don't you like polishing turds you already flushed away?

As evidenced by every one of lafs metrics being worse AWAY FROM PLD

I feel like no one is lettting that sink in

Again I like the guy but Christ he’d better get better and quickly

I haven't seen all the numbers, and I'm sorry if I missed it. But what was the competition and role he was put in? PLD was also given favorable deployments (i.e. starting in the offensive zone).

So how much of it was being on a line with Dubois and how much of it was Dubois?

 

[DoktorJeep]

I don't wanna hear any statistical arguments about Pierre-Luc Dubois

How convenient. The pivot from strength down the middle to testicular fortitude is less credible, FYI.

 

[All The Kings Men]

How convenient. The pivot from strength down the middle to testicular fortitude is less credible, FYI.

Convenient how?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Convenient how?

Per ChatGPT…

It would be "convenient" for someone paid by the team's marketing department to shift the narrative away from statistics if the stats don't favor the player in question. By focusing on intangible qualities like toughness or leadership, which are harder to measure or criticize, it can help create a more favorable perception of the team.

This approach can be seen as a way to protect the team's image and maintain fan support, even if the player's on-ice performance isn't living up to expectations. It aligns with the marketing department's goal to present the team and its players in the best light possible, regardless of what the statistics might indicate.

 

[Maynard]

"not so sure" should be your tagline because all you do is speak in riddles

It’s passive gatekeeping. It’s a way to be smug and condescending while still sounding polite.

 

[johnjm22]

Please do not try use those as analogies for Laf and anyone with talent. The dude had 11 assists playing in the top 9 the entire season. Of course I understand its not all about straight talent.

He did have 12 ES goals. That's pretty good. That would be the 6th most on the Panthers.

It was 7th most on LA. Only 2 behind Danault and Byfield.

His S% was only 8.2% BTW.

I'm fully confident he'll be a good NHL player, I'm just not sure when.

 

[johnjm22]

It’s only a problem if they try Laf there, it doesn’t work and the don’t change anything. Hiller has shown a willingness to change things up, but hopefully he’ll give it a little time to marinate.

The problem is, if they want to keep QB at center, you're nuetering the Kopitar line. I think it's going to be an on going problem all season trying to find a forward that works on that line with Kopitar and Kempe.

I could see them making a move at the deadline for a winger.

I think Byfield will end up getting used like Draisaitl; when the really need a goal they put him on McDavid's wing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Come on, guys. Don't you like polishing turds you already flushed away?


I haven't seen all the numbers, and I'm sorry if I missed it. But what was the competition and role he was put in? PLD was also given favorable deployments (i.e. starting in the offensive zone).

So how much of it was being on a line with Dubois and how much of it was Dubois?

It's not like he had significant time away from PLD but

With Kempe and Kopitar, -1 and 51% CF
With Lewis and Lizotte, 32% CF, no scoring
With Danault and Moore, 63% CF, no scoring
With Kopitar and Byfield, -1, 40% CF

Hell in all his combined time with Kopitar so far, he's at 50% shot attempts and 29% GF% (5GF, 11GA).

We are rewarding this guy with top line and PP time.

That is my beef with it. He's a checker who is getting crushed in scoring AND defense.

Potential, absolutely. Likeable, undoubtedly. But this org just cannot figure out roles to save their lives.

 

[Statto]

The problem is, if they want to keep QB at center, you're nuetering the Kopitar line. I think it's going to be an on going problem all season trying to find a forward that works on that line with Kopitar and Kempe.

I could see them making a move at the deadline for a winger.

I think Byfield will end up getting used like Draisaitl; when the really need a goal they put him on McDavid's wing.

I completely agree and nothing wrong with that IMO.

Turcotte and Thomas would work stylistically with Kopi. If they wanted they could also put Moore there. There are options so I’m not too concerned as Hiller has demonstrated he will use them.

 

[johnjm22]

I haven't seen all the numbers, and I'm sorry if I missed it. But what was the competition and role he was put in? PLD was also given favorable deployments (i.e. starting in the offensive zone).

I suspect that has a lot to do with.

It doesn't change RJ's point though. Laf has a long ways to go and other young players haven't been given as much opportunity.

 

[King'sPawn]

It's not like he had significant time away from PLD but

With Kempe and Kopitar, -1 and 51% CF
With Lewis and Lizotte, 32% CF, no scoring
With Danault and Moore, 63% CF, no scoring
With Kopitar and Byfield, -1, 40% CF

Hell in all his combined time with Kopitar so far, he's at 50% shot attempts and 29% GF% (5GF, 11GA).

We are rewarding this guy with top line and PP time.

I'll try not to belabor it because you and bland already seemed to settle it between you two, but it's his skillset and style of play where he would benefit the powerplay. If anything, I don't see a problem with trying.

It's at least showing some more creativity than throwing the same 5 vets out there. It's at least a step in the right direction. I just think, especially with a significantly smaller sample size, it's not fair to compare his play on PLD's line with others.

That is my beef with it. He's a checker who is getting crushed in scoring AND defense.

Potential, absolutely. Likeable, undoubtedly. But this org just cannot figure out roles to save their lives.

He was also a rookie. I know you acknowledge the potential, but this is a third-rounder who went from NCAA to NHL in a five-month span. And the most important thing for a role player is experience, which is why I didn't think he'd benefit a whole lot playing in the AHL. Someone like Lizotte didn't need the AHL either. He just had one game in the minors.

Now, personally, I think Turcotte would be a better fit on the powerplay, as his style seems closer to Iafallo. But I don't think getting a decent checker to retrieve pucks on the powerplay is an indication they struggle with sorting out roles. Laferriere is, currently, the player whose deployment and developmental arc best reflects my general philosophy of how the org should be doing things. Maybe I'm biased though.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'll try not to belabor it because you and bland already seemed to settle it between you two, but it's his skillset and style of play where he would benefit the powerplay. If anything, I don't see a problem with trying.

It's at least showing some more creativity than throwing the same 5 vets out there. It's at least a step in the right direction. I just think, especially with a significantly smaller sample size, it's not fair to compare his play on PLD's line with others.

He was also a rookie. I know you acknowledge the potential, but this is a third-rounder who went from NCAA to NHL in a five-month span. And the most important thing for a role player is experience, which is why I didn't think he'd benefit a whole lot playing in the AHL. Someone like Lizotte didn't need the AHL either. He just had one game in the minors.

Now, personally, I think Turcotte would be a better fit on the powerplay, as his style seems closer to Iafallo. But I don't think getting a decent checker to retrieve pucks on the powerplay is an indication they struggle with sorting out roles. Laferriere is, currently, the player whose deployment and developmental arc best reflects my general philosophy of how the org should be doing things. Maybe I'm biased though.

Not at all, I agree wholeheartedly that the philosophy behind it is what I want...but for ALL the kids, not just the one who looks like he's doing something. It's bunk to do this for Laf while burying Arty/Alex/Akil/Gabe/Rasmus and more.

And I don't have a problem with the org trying it either, but they haven't given me any reason to believe they would shift gears if it didn't work. The smug stubbornness has been a feature for years. I'd love to be wrong on either point but history says otherwise.