Post-Game Talk: Another embarrassing loss

[Gary Nylund]

Pretty much... luckily we have Klingberg on LTIR and Reaves can almost be buried fully.

Two bad signings and I don't blame him for Samsanov, not sure anyone predicted him to be this bad.

Klinberg was brutal and I believe him being on LTIR doesn't make that costly mistake go away either. I'm not good with the nuances of the cap so please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is, that him being on LTIR means we can spend that cap space on someone else. However, it's not like we can go UFA shopping in mid-season so in order to utilize that cap space, we'd have to trade away some futures to acquire a good player which is far from ideal. So therefore it would be infinitely preferable to have a healthy player worthy of Klinberg's cap hit playing for us instead.

I don't blame him for Sammy at all. Goalies are voodoo and rolling with him and Woll seemed like a completely reasonable plan to me.

 

[Niagara Bill]

If this was a physical injury he would be in the minors right now and maybe 10 weeks ago.
Because it is mental the team and coach think they have the time to play around with his mental issue. These points come April are important.
I don't care what they do with him, they can have a flippin telethon if they want, or have Sid and the Breakfast Television crew give him a group hug, just get him OFF this team. It is not fair to 20 other players.

 

[notbias]

Klinberg was brutal and I believe him being on LTIR doesn't make that costly mistake go away either. I'm not good with the nuances of the cap so please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is, that him being on LTIR means we can spend that cap space on someone else. However, it's not like we can go UFA shopping in mid-season so in order to utilize that cap space, we'd have to trade away some futures to acquire a good player which is far from ideal. So therefore it would be infinitely preferable to have a healthy player worthy of Klinberg's cap hit playing for us instead.

I don't blame him for Sammy at all. Goalies are voodoo and rolling with him and Woll seemed like a completely reasonable plan to me.

With a 20-man roster, I think they could have about 5 million to spend (plus the cap of whoever is coming out of the lineup for the new player), but this assumes both Reaves and Samsanov are sent down and Timmins is waived.

LTIR can't be accumulated which is the biggest thing, so the cap for the new player needs to fit in that 5 million (really like 5.8), which shouldn't be an issue since retention is always an option too.

Agreed it would have been better to just sign better players and not use assets, but at least the Klingberg hit is usable now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

With a 20-man roster, I think they could have about 5 million to spend (plus the cap of whoever is coming out of the lineup for the new player), but this assumes both Reaves and Samsanov are sent down and Timmins is waived.

LTIR can't be accumulated which is the biggest thing, so the cap for the new player needs to fit in that 5 million (really like 5.8), which shouldn't be an issue since retention is always an option too.

Agreed it would have been better to just sign better players and not use assets, but at least the Klingberg hit is usable now.

I don't want to trade away futures, that's my biggest problem.

 

[Mess]

Here are the Eastern Conference standings highlighting the 3 weakest teams ..

Here are Leafs recent results against those weakest teams

How is is possible for anyone to take this team as a Cup contender?

25 goals against in 4 matchups ..

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I can’t blame Treliving for not blowing it up because he didn’t know what he had, but why not make a coaching change?

Blowing it up? The entire core has been intact. What are you referring to?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

One thing we can all agree on is it’s going to take longer than we’d like for the damage done by Dubas to be fixed.
I can’t imagine there are any Leaf fans out there that aren’t delighted he negotiated himself out of a job here.
Such a waste.

But he passed all the tests!

 

[TheBigFour]

are we at the point that we're blaming dubas for every problem leafs have this year? The fact is that leafs were top 10 defensive team last season and this year they're aren't...not sure if its dubas fault or treliving fault but something is wrong. maybe adding one dimensional offensive forwards wasn't the greatest plan...who knows.

You can blame dubas for lack of draft capital but its hard to blame for defensive issue when trevling had 20 mill cap space this summer to do something to fix it.

Anyways I think trelving will get tanev soon.

 

[Hellcat]

I know people want to blame Sammy, and he deserves the stick for 4 goals on 11 shots, he was liquid pig manure last night but who can tell me when is it a good idea to have THREE Leafs below the goal line vs one Blue jacket and then have zero Leafs in the slot to cover the trailer.



This is 100% a systematic breakdown, we dont need just a new goalie, we need a coach who after SIX years can teach a NHL skater that you never ever do whatever that was. THREE on ONE 50/50 play and the ONE wins, HOW THE F does that happen?

 

[notbias]

One thing we can all agree on is it’s going to take longer than we’d like for the damage done by Dubas to be fixed.
I can’t imagine there are any Leaf fans out there that aren’t delighted he negotiated himself out of a job here.
Such a waste.

What did he do that is causing this damage?

Our biggest problem is defensive and goaltending.

I am curious to hear how Dubas signed a bunch of bad defensive players this year (Klingberg, Reaves, Bertuzzi, Domi) and let good ones go, or how he re-signed Samsanov this year...

Complain about the stuff Dubas actually did, he failed here... but our issues here are all new, it has never been this bad.

 

[egd27]

He was smart enough to not sign Campbell long term though and there's literally no reason to think he would have signed Sammy to a 5x5 deal.

Perhaps there is.

2022-23
Jarry .909
Samsonov .919

Tristan Jarry signed a 5 year, $26,875,000 contract with the Pittsburgh Penguins on Jul. 1, 2023.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I know people want to blame Sammy, and he deserves the stick for 4 goals on 11 shots, he was liquid pig manure last night but who can tell me when is it a good idea to have THREE Leafs below the goal line vs one Blue jacket and then have zero Leafs in the slot to cover the trailer.



This is 100% a systematic breakdown, we dont need just a new goalie, we need a coach who after SIX years can teach a NHL skater that you never ever do whatever that was. THREE on ONE 50/50 play and the ONE wins, HOW THE F does that happen?

I agree the team still makes way too many blunders, but Samsonov is not right. He doesn't pass the analytical or eye test, he is literally the worst goalie in the league right now

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I know people want to blame Sammy, and he deserves the stick for 4 goals on 11 shots, he was liquid pig manure last night but who can tell me when is it a good idea to have THREE Leafs below the goal line vs one Blue jacket and then have zero Leafs in the slot to cover the trailer.



This is 100% a systematic breakdown, we dont need just a new goalie, we need a coach who after SIX years can teach a NHL skater that you never ever do whatever that was. THREE on ONE 50/50 play and the ONE wins, HOW THE F does that happen?

Agreed. Samsonov is just part of the problem. The Skaters (non-goalies) are doing stupid things throughout the game.

 

[Hellcat]

What did he do that is causing this damage?

Our biggest problem is defensive and goaltending.

I am curious to hear how Dubas signed a bunch of bad defensive players this year (Klingberg, Reaves, Bertuzzi, Domi) and let good ones go, or how he re-signed Samsanov this year...

Complain about the stuff Dubas actually did, he failed here... but our issues here are all new, it has never been this bad.

Trading away virtually all of our trade capital, drafting for shit, developing for shit... for a start. Establishing a culture of elite reward before elite accomplishments.

 

[Nineteen67]

It made sense to bring Sammy back, not sure arbitration was the route, but who knows if it would have made a difference. Kling and Reaves have been pretty predictable, albeit surprising they were THAT bad

I thought it made no sense to bring him back and I felt this year was a great opportunity to find out if Woll was capable of being a number 1 goalie in the NHL. Who knows at this point if he’ll stay healthy. Acute problems with extensor muscles, tendons, or reticulum could impact his career.

 

[notbias]

Trading away virtually all of our trade capital, drafting for shit, developing for shit... for a start. Establishing a culture of elite reward before elite accomplishments.

Just checking.

Cowan, Minten, Niemela, Robertson, and Knies are all not tradeable?

He chose picks over trading prospects.

Our prospects are developing nicely.

We finally have players who can step in and play, it is refreshing after we struck out so much in earlier drafts with Hunter.

I am also curious how this is relevant to the current team and how they are performing.

 

[Nineteen67]

Blowing it up? The entire core has been intact. What are you referring to?

I don’t think he would trade one of the core without getting to know them.

Just checking.

Cowan, Minten, Niemela, Robertson, and Knies are all not tradeable?

He chose picks over trading prospects.

Our prospects are developing nicely.

We finally have players who can step in and play, it is refreshing after we struck out so much in earlier drafts with Hunter.

I am also curious how this is relevant to the current team and how they are performing.

Robertson, Niemela, Minten and Cowan can’t play right now.

 

[Gallagbi]

I know people want to blame Sammy, and he deserves the stick for 4 goals on 11 shots, he was liquid pig manure last night but who can tell me when is it a good idea to have THREE Leafs below the goal line vs one Blue jacket and then have zero Leafs in the slot to cover the trailer.



This is 100% a systematic breakdown, we dont need just a new goalie, we need a coach who after SIX years can teach a NHL skater that you never ever do whatever that was. THREE on ONE 50/50 play and the ONE wins, HOW THE F does that happen?

It's a pretty basic and common NHL breakout. You have a reverse and forward option. It's not a defensive situation until it hits the gap in the boards and the puck bobbles on Rielly. Most teams leave their netfront open on puck retrievals as youre not protecting against a turnover. Domi's a little late reading and responding but the position is normal

 

[Hellcat]

Agreed. Samsonov is just part of the problem. The Skaters (non-goalies) are doing stupid things throughout the game.

I've never seen a team with so much talent not have a f-ing clue how to play without the puck. God I miss Pat Burns RIP.

I've been begging for a Trotz type coach for years now. It's easy to win 100 regular season points when you have Matthews talent, its hard to win 16 playoff games when you dont have detail in your game. Keefe is not a detail orientated coach.

It all mental, Sammy didn't over 3 months forget how to play G, Brodie is dealing with his wife's illness, his head is clearly not in the game, he needs to take a personal leave, he is hurting the team right now.

 

[notbias]

I don’t think he would trade one of the core without getting to know them.


Robertson, Niemela, Minten and Cowan can’t play right now.

"No tradeable assets"... there are a bunch of tradeable assets... people just freak because they aren't picks... if we traded prospects instead we'd have no one knocking on the door, currently our pool is not bad.

 

[Hellcat]

It's a pretty basic and common NHL breakout. You have a reverse and forward option. It's not a defensive situation until it hits the gap in the boards and the puck bobbles on Rielly. Most teams leave their netfront open on puck retrievals as youre not protecting against a turnover. Domi's a little late reading and responding but the position is normal

Brodie should have been there to close out the back door, that basic hockey 101, it's taught in Timbits hockey.

Just checking.

Cowan, Minten, Niemela, Robertson, and Knies are all not tradeable?

He chose picks over trading prospects.

Our prospects are developing nicely.

We finally have players who can step in and play, it is refreshing after we struck out so much in earlier drafts with Hunter.

I am also curious how this is relevant to the current team and how they are performing.

Which one of those guys gets us a starter goalie or a top pairing RH d-man that we have been chasing for 8 years??

 

[Nineteen67]

"No tradeable assets"... there are a bunch of tradeable assets... people just freak because they aren't picks... if we traded prospects instead we'd have no one knocking on the door, currently our pool is not bad.

I agree. If they hire a competent GM in the next few months there’s a chance they could build a Cup contender in the next two to three years.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Perhaps there is.

2022-23
Jarry .909
Samsonov .919

Tristan Jarry signed a 5 year, $26,875,000 contract with the Pittsburgh Penguins on Jul. 1, 2023.

Fair enough, it's still all pointless speculation. Dubas is gone and while I can understand to a point that people are still obsessed with him, blaming him for things that he never did pretty ridiculous.

Trading away virtually all of our trade capital, drafting for shit, developing for shit... for a start. Establishing a culture of elite reward before elite accomplishments.

I thought we drafted/developed quite well under Dubas, not sure where this is coming from. But elite reward yeah, I would have rather had Marner sit out the year than give him that ridiculous contract, that was IMO by far his biggest mistake.

 

[notbias]

Which one of those guys gets us a starter goalie or a top pairing RH d-man that we have been chasing for 8 years??

Starting goalies don't become available often... not sure one is even out there. Hopefully, Woll is that, I assume most goalies are acquired via drafting.

Very few prospects are worth a top pairing RD...

I'd say there is the equivalent of 4-5 1sts between Knies, Robertson, Cowan, Minten, and Niemela, so combine some of those for your top pairing RD if you want.

We have assets, they just aren't as easy to value as draft picks.

 

[Gallagbi]

Brodie should have been there to close out the back door, that basic hockey 101, it's taught in Timbits hockey.

Brodie's job is the reverse option until the turnover, Domi is the forward outlet until the turnover. Once Mo loses possession, both need to bail out to the front, and both do, but not in time.

Not a systems issue, an execution issue. And like I said, a really basic and common system that we see night in and night out. Knies gets a chance on a similar turnover vs Ottawa the game prior.