Confirmed with Link: Andy Greene Contract Extension (Five years, $5 million per)

[MoonDragn]

who has a better goal threshold ??? Greene or Lidstrom ?

Lidstrom at his peak was around 25.1 GVT... Obviously Greene has a long long long way to go.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

who has a better goal threshold ??? Greene or Lidstrom ?

There are aspects of the game that even the most skilled hockey watchers will miss. For instance, what if a defensive defenseman is very skilled deep in his own end, but can't exit the zone with precision, and thus banks the puck off the glass and turns it over in the neutral zone. Because of this, the other team gets more puck possession and as a result has more opportunities to create goals, and capitalizes on some.

Nothing that player did is directly attributable to the goal from simply watching. He might look good defensively, but, after factoring in how much he dispossess the puck, maybe he's merely average. It's something that would accumulate over a full season. However, statistics would pick it up.

Conversely, a guy like Erik Karlsson might look bad in his own end, however he drives possession forward and the puck simply isn't in his own team's end as much when he's on the ice. He might commit more glaring defensive errors, but because the other team has the puck less, the overall goals against total could be less than you realize simply from watching.

Another example: take a hypothetical pairing of Mitchell - Voynov. Mitchell has a tendency to give the puck to his more mobile defensive partner down low because of his limitations with skating and puck movement. As a result, his defensive partner (Voynov in this case) is shouldering a heavier burden and has the opportunity to make more mistakes. The mistakes might look bad, however they might not be when you consider them in the context of what he is being asked to do (which statistics can help illuminate). But most people watching the game would simply think "oh man what a horrible turnover, he's been bad tonight."

 

[ajdevjet]

There are aspects of the game that even the most skilled hockey watchers will miss. For instance, what if a defensive defenseman is very skilled deep in his own end, but can't exit the zone with precision, and thus banks the puck off the glass and turns it over in the neutral zone. Because of this, the other team gets more puck possession and as a result has more opportunities to create goals, and capitalizes on some.




Nothing that player did is directly attributable to the goal from simply watching. He might look good defensively, but, after factoring in how much he dispossess the puck, maybe he's merely average. However, statistics would pick it up.

Conversely, a guy like Erik Karlsson might look bad in his own end, however he drives possession forward and the puck simply isn't his own team's end as much when he's on the ice. He might commit more glaring defensive errors, but because the other team has the puck less, the overall goals against total could be less than you realize simply from watching.

bold text- really ? you need advanced stats for that ???


sorry dude but you don't need advanced stats for the two examples you just made...its hockey 101 it's called watching game tape and by simply watching game tape you can pick up the things you mention.

 

[NJDevs26]

If you want to debate advanced stats in the Greene thread, fine but DO NOT keep namecalling/taking little snide jabs at each other or infractions will be handed out.

Addendum: There was actually a stats thread created a few weeks back by FMASC, I suggest the overarching stat debates go there from here on.

 

[PercivalGraves]

Great to see lou re-signed the devils best defenseman .

 

[Oneiro]

Yeah...I can't get over how much of a bargain this is.

Greene, Zajac, Henrique and Schneider want to be here. Same with Jagr. Every single one of those guys would have gotten more on the open market.

We need some more long-term scoring but I haven't been this pleased with our off-ice decisions in a long time.

 

[tycobb]

bold text- really ? you need advanced stats for that ???


sorry dude but you don't need advanced stats for the two examples you just made...its hockey 101 it's called watching game tape and by simply watching game tape you can pick up the things you mention.

It is impossible to watch every game every season. If you just rely on your eyes then you opinion by your own admission is worthless. Unless you think watching a player play 5 games is enough to judge him yourself.

I rather look at a players advance statistic for his career to see what kind of player he is vs watching 5 random games in his career.

Thrilled we got Greene under what I think he was going to get (6m). Such a solid player who hopefully mentors Larsson this season.

 

[ajdevjet]

]It is impossible to watch every game every season. [/B]If you just rely on your eyes then you opinion by your own admission is worthless. Unless you think watching a player play 5 games is enough to judge him yourself.

I rather look at a players advance statistic for his career to see what kind of player he is vs watching 5 random games in his career.

Thrilled we got Greene under what I think he was going to get (6m). Such a solid player who hopefully mentors Larsson this season.

call me crazy but I have missed only one devil game (Oct 13 2011 vs LA) since 1987 because my daughter was being born.

Yes my opinion is worthless because Im just a fan, I dont work for the devils therefore I don't need all of these "advanced stats". its a simple game that fans now are just trying to complicate. Teams watch film on EVERY SINGLE opponent, even Lou himself said that all the info the Devils new "advanced stat" (or whatever fancy word they wanna call it) team provides will not go directly to the coaches, Uncle Lou will filter down what he thinks is important, if you would rather look at a players advanced stats more power to ya, Im just not into them, advanced stats for fans is complete overkill in my humble opinion. Why all the hate for a fan who isnt into advanced stats ? I dont get it.

 

[britdevil]

Such a great contract for a, imo, top 20 defender in the league.

Lou really has learnt from previous error.

 

[SeidoN]

Greene is a top-1 underrated D

 

[Oneiro]

There are aspects of the game that even the most skilled hockey watchers will miss.

The two examples you gave after this statement are things that hockey fans notice all the time. I don't think it takes much "skill" to make those connections at all.

Maybe the average fan doesn't connect those dots via the eye test, but plenty of users on this board and elsewhere would be able to make the distinction. I think pattern recognition can start at either end of the spectrum (eye test or with analytics).

Anyway. Andy Greene or Zajac as next captain?

 

[Richer's Ghost]

The two examples you gave after this statement are things that hockey fans notice all the time. I don't think it takes much "skill" to make those connections at all.

Maybe the average fan doesn't connect those dots via the eye test, but plenty of users on this board and elsewhere would be able to make the distinction. I think pattern recognition can start at either end of the spectrum (eye test or with analytics).

Anyway. Andy Greene or Zajac as next captain?

Henrique

 

[JimEIV]

Henrique

I would be on board for that.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Henrique doesn't even have an A yet

I'd bet its either Trav or Andy

 

[JimEIV]

We're still talking at least an entire year before a new captain is named. A lot can change in that time.

 

[manilaNJ]

I guess we should all arm ourselves for the next great battle.


Team Henrique

Henrique, a Calder Trophy finalist last season, wants to be a captain in the National Hockey League. He wants to be the player young guys look to for guidance. He wants to be the voice of a team -- the pulse, the guy the coach leans on.

"A few years down the road I want to be in the position that Zach Parise is in -- that's how I look at it," Henrique told NHL.com after playing in an American Hockey League preseason game for the Albany Devils. "Hopefully a few years down the road, some kid will be sitting in my spot and I'll be teaching him things."

"I'm not one of the older guys in the room, but that [NHL] experience from last year can enable me to be more of a leader here," Henrique said. "I can take what I learned from [New Jersey's veteran players] and try to pass it on to the guys here. You always try to remember those guys that helped you out when you didn't know much -- well, there are guys in here that don't know much, and now I can be a leader and pass the little that I've learned along to them."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643159

Team Greene

"His leadership goes unnoticed," Lamoriello said. "He's a quiet leader and respected by the players."

"His leadership was evident by the voting in our postseason awards," Lamoriello said. "He handles young defensemen very well; he knows what to say and when to say it, and they know when he says something he means it."

Greene said he feels the best way to lead is by coming to the rink and performing as a professional every day.

"I want to take more of a leadership role since I've always been looked at as that type of player," Greene said. "But you can't be someone you're not. I won't say something just to say something to a player. I don't try to force it and become something other than I am."

...

"Andy Greene and the season he had; I thought he was outstanding," DeBoer said. "Arguably, he might have been our MVP in my mind for how he played every night, the amount of minutes and what we asked him to do."

The fourth-year coach has entrusted Greene to skate with the younger players on the roster throughout the past three seasons.

"He's not a flashy, end-to-end defenseman like a [Erik] Karlsson in Ottawa, but we'll watch a whole game back and Andy Greene won't make a mistake with the puck," DeBoer said. "He'll make the right decision every time. He'll always be in the right position. That's a rare quality to have that type of consistency in your game and coaches love that."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=727541#&navid=nhl-search

I'd be happy with either, or Zajac.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

If I have one critique about Andy, it would be hitting net with his shot. However, I thought he did a much better job of it last season.

 

[Desert Devil]

I'd prefer Greene to be our next Captain, but if it's Henrique or Zajac it won't bother me. Just happy to see we have all three of these guys locked up long term.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

so will we finally have a drama free summer next year? only "important" UFAs are Jagr and Zids

 

[BrodeursCups]

Have to imagine Zids and Jagr will keep getting one year deals as they keep producing. Jagr clearly likes it here and the responsibilities he's given on a nightly basis. Him and TZ work together so well - could easily see him playing another 2-3 years given his passion for the game and dedication in the offseason...

 

[ajdevjet]

The two examples you gave after this statement are things that hockey fans notice all the time. I don't think it takes much "skill" to make those connections at all.

Maybe the average fan doesn't connect those dots via the eye test, but plenty of users on this board and elsewhere would be able to make the distinction. I think pattern recognition can start at either end of the spectrum (eye test or with analytics).

Anyway. Andy Greene or Zajac as next captain?[/QUOTE]

I think it should be Jagr then after he's gone Zajac

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

nah, I want a captain thats going to be here awhile. Jagr may not even be on the team next year.

 

[ajdevjet]

so will we finally have a drama free summer next year? only "important" UFAs are Jagr and Zids

What's Gelina's deal ? Is he restricted ?

 

[ajdevjet]

nah, I want a captain thats going to be here awhile. Jagr may not even be on the team next year.

True but in my opinion he IS the real team captain right now.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What's Gelina's deal ? Is he restricted ?

yes.

all the young DMen will be RFA still.