Player Discussion Andrew Shaw II - Playoff Edition

[TheBlindFan]

I'll admit he has been playing much better lately, but his play still does not justify the ridiculous contract he has nor the trade. I don't hate Shaw that much, but I hate how Bergevin gave everything for a role player while comparing Radulov to a dog. And I'm far from being an Eller fanboy. Believe me.

Comparing Radu to a dog... in term of loyalty... And Radu is definitely not a dog

I don't see any relation between Shaws and Radulov except that they are playing on the same team.
As for the contract, Shaws at 3.9 is not low but not ridiculously high. He was 25Y and he signed 6Y.

3.9M-6Y at 25Y make him at 256rk highest payed in NHL 2017 (he was 246rk PPG)
6.25M-5Y at 31Y make him the 59rk highest payed in NHL 2017 (60% more money!) (was 66rk in term of PPG)

on July 3th it's 10.5M was available

6.25M for Radu, 5M for Markov
We all know the numbers now
With 0.750 over cap, simply move Davidson (AHL, could be pick on waive or trade) would have create the space. Anyway, with Markov, Schlemko, Alzner, there was no more space for him

Basically, Shaws contract didn't prevent MB for signing Radu and if 3.9M for Shaws is high, so is 6.25M for Radu

Note: no many player are able to play all 3 positions on line 2-3-4, and bring it all every game were even he plays with who even he plays. Eller was clearly not like him and was producing less for close to the same salary ( 3.5M versus 3.9M... it's about 3.5% growth)

 

[Scriptor]

From quotes I've read, things that were not said outright but implied, Shaw seemed like one of the players who hated Therrien the most. He certainly seems to really like to have Julien as a coach. I think when the season is over and we look at his production, we'll be pleasantly surprised at the numbers. Hopefully that makes us forget about those two 2nd round picks.

Shaw is Julien's type of player. That will make a huge difference. Gallagher is also Julien's type of player, as is Byron, as is Lehkonen, as can become Hudon, as is Drouin (because he doesn't quit).

Ultimately, Julien likes character players and plays them. Shaw, like most players, starts excelling when he has a clear role to execute. Julien is a better communicator than Therrien and the message about a player's role coming from the head coach directly, instead of always through Kirk Muller, has more impact on the players' performances, IMHO.

 

[Scriptor]

Comparing Radu to a dog... in term of loyalty... And Radu is definitely not a dog

I don't see any relation between Shaws and Radulov except that they are playing on the same team.
As for the contract, Shaws at 3.9 is not low but not ridiculously high. He was 25Y and he signed 6Y.

3.9M-6Y at 25Y make him at 256rk highest payed in NHL 2017 (he was 246rk PPG)
6.25M-5Y at 31Y make him the 59rk highest payed in NHL 2017 (60% more money!) (was 66rk in term of PPG)

on July 3th it's 10.5M was available

6.25M for Radu, 5M for Markov
We all know the numbers now
With 0.750 over cap, simply move Davidson (AHL, could be pick on waive or trade) would have create the space. Anyway, with Markov, Schlemko, Alzner, there was no more space for him

Basically, Shaws contract didn't prevent MB for signing Radu and if 3.9M for Shaws is high, so is 6.25M for Radu

Note: no many player are able to play all 3 positions on line 2-3-4, and bring it all every game were even he plays with who even he plays. Eller was clearly not like him and was producing less for close to the same salary ( 3.5M versus 3.9M... it's about 3.5% growth)

Your distortion of a statement, but roll with that, it just makes rational readers stop reading once they see this...

 

[Scriptor]

I'll admit he has been playing much better lately, but his play still does not justify the ridiculous contract he has nor the trade. I don't hate Shaw that much, but I hate how Bergevin gave everything for a role player while comparing Radulov to a dog. And I'm far from being an Eller fanboy. Believe me.

Pardon the pun, but how some fans/posters keep gnawing on that distorted bone is mind-blowing. I'm personally not sure that Shaw was worth the two 2nd rounders in a more than decent draft year, especially with Gallagher already on the team as a similar type of player playing the same position, but, if properly used, I'm certain that Shaw can be more useful to the team than what we have seen so far in the regular season and the playoffs.

I have more confidence in Julien getting the most out of Shaw than Therrien because Shaw's game plays right into the antagonistic style that Julien likes to see from his players. Notice how he is spreading Gallagher, Shaw, Byron and Lehkonen around the lineup in order to get some of that bite on every line.

Let's have this talk again come Game #40 to see how Julien has used the tools at his disposal and to be able to comment on real results.

Shaw, at his best, also gives Bergevin some flexibility and options trade-wise, either by using Shaw as a trade chip or by making Gallagher more expendable (even if such a player is never entirely expendable) in order to package something into an upgrade that might use some of the Cap space remaining before the season is over.

 

[TheBlindFan]

Expensive Prust.

You know that Prust never reach 20 pts with us? Never higher then 0.37 PPG in the short season?

with is bad 0.43 PPG production, Shaws is a superior player already

Here the top producer in term of PPG since 2012 for the forward

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,10&sort=pointsPerGame

 

[Bryson]

The hate he gets is 100% free. People who overbash him are all Eller fans who were frustrated with the sequence of trades they made last summer. All in all, Shaw even in a bad season was better than Eller ever was with Montreal, in addition to be younger and more versatile. Fast forward 18 months, Eller is a non factor in Washington and Shaw actually has some use here.

Shaw is a garbage player that will never produce enough to comensate for his salary and term. Ridiculously terrible contract for an injury prone player.

Eller is the better and more versatile player. Shaw only plays the PP. Eller could play PP and PK. As terrible a season as people claim Eller had, tale away Shaw's PP points and Eller outscored him by a wide margin including in the playoffs where Shaw laid goose eggs across the board. And we gave up two high 2nd round picks for this ?

We are also paying Plekanec 6M to take on Eller's defensive role resulting in a career low for Plekanec so dare I say that Eller actually had more use to this team than Shawful. Plus those 3.9M should have been used in securing Radulov and upgrading our top 6 who is an infinitely better player and moves the needle towards contention further than Shawful.

 

[417]

Can't wait to see what DeBrincat and Girard do so that when people will still try to defend this trade, they'll eat some major crow. Yeah, Shaw had a good camp. So we will see how he keeps it going and IF he can stay healthy. Awesome to point out that he played with a concussions most of the time and pretend like it can not happen again....

I see you felt like I was talking to you eh? I didn't even realize you were one of the ones I was talking to, but clearly, you took that post to heart. You didn't just try this shoe on, you own it I see...

I don't know what DeBrincat and/or Girard have to do with the Habs...as though because they were picked by teams in the draft slots the Habs would have been in, somehow makes them bequeathed to the Habs...

That's some weird logic, not one I subscribe too...you or I have no idea who the Habs would of picked at those slots had they retained them.

But you can keep running with this...there isn't much rhyme or reason to it, but that's all too common around here, so your take is just par for the course I guess.

I guess you'll be one of those "fans" hoping Shaw has a terrible season or maybe you'll be wishing he gets another concussion.

Whatever it takes to keep your unrelenting pursuit of the GM's head, alive.

 

[Whitesnake]

Can't wait to see what DeBrincat and Girard do so that when people will still try to defend this trade, they'll eat some major crow.

I see you felt like I was talking to you eh? I didn't even realize you were one of the ones I was talking to, but clearly, you took that post to heart. You didn't just try this shoe on, you own it I see...

I don't know what DeBrincat and/or Girard have to do with the Habs...as though because they were picked by teams in the draft slots the Habs would have been in, somehow makes them bequeathed to the Habs...

That's some weird logic, not one I subscribe too...you or I have no idea who the Habs would of picked at those slots had they retained them.

But you can keep running with this...there isn't much rhyme or reason to it, but that's all too common around here, so your take is just par for the course I guess.

I guess you'll be one of those "fans" hoping Shaw has a terrible season or maybe you'll be wishing he gets another concussion.

Whatever it takes to keep your unrelenting pursuit of the GM's head, alive.

So the witchhunt is still alive I see...."you surely feel this, feel that, you are such a nasty poster Whitesnake...wishing all those people to fail...bla-bla-bla..." lol You make me laugh. Yeah, so you wish people eat crow....and somehow we cannot simply wish other people eat crow. Why is that? You hate being served your own medicine? Why can't we reply the same way you do? Not my problem if you don't like what you read and yet it's formed EXACTLY the way you voice it. You hate the reflection in the mirror? Stop looking then. Incredible how the main reason you want to see him do good is not for the team to win but for people to eat crow....and you give me some moral lessons? You are quickly becoming a parody of yourself. Stop doing that. You are better than that but your witchhunts against people that doesn't share the same opinions than yours have become sad lately.

Shaw doing good this year is your analysis of the whole Shaw deal, which is the money he got, the term he got, and what we have given to get him, which is 2 really high picks in a very very good draft. But hey, don't let that fool you. The only think you need is to see him do good. Which is what exactly?

By the way, I named you DeBrincat and Girard but it could be a lot more names in there. And even Timmins might have had at least 1 great pick out of the 2...

 

[Uncle Gary]

Still hate that trade and contract but at least he has been looking better so far. Hopefully he has a good season.

 

[Deebs]

Shawzy has looked great this preseason. Hopefully he's over the health issues that slowed him down last year and he's can play the way he can for us this year.

 

[TheBlindFan]

I don't hate Shaw that much, but I hate how Bergevin gave everything for a role player while comparing Radulov to a dog.

Your distortion of a statement, but roll with that, it just makes rational readers stop reading once they see this...

Maybe I wrong, but what the poster was referring to was:
" If you want loyalty, buy a dog" Bergevin July 2nd

His point was :

Give high contract to role player (Shaw) while giving less to high profile players (Radu) is a good reason to hate MB. Chisto add the well knows "dog" reference that was a highlight of this summer​

What point was:

• Radu had the highest offer from Bergevin until Dallas was in (3rd). He was so loyal to Montreal that ones he got the the same offer from Dallas, he run with it.
• Shaws didn't prevent Radu to be resigned, Radulov wanted the most $$ and got it (tax wise) The cap space was there... we still see it now!
• If Shaw salary is high (which is a bit high) so is the one from Radu. (when you compare metrics with similar production and AAV)

You may have miss the Bergevin Low-ball Markov and Radulov all summer long. The plan was the signed then both and at good money has far I'm concern. "Just a million more" would have make these contract ridiculously high. 7m Radu, 6M Markov...

 

[417]

So the witchhunt is still alive I see...."you surely feel this, feel that, you are such a nasty poster Whitesnake...wishing all those people to fail...bla-bla-bla..." lol You make me laugh. Yeah, so you wish people eat crow....and somehow we cannot simply wish other people eat crow. Why is that? You hate being served your own medicine? Why can't we reply the same way you do? Not my problem if you don't like what you read and yet it's formed EXACTLY the way you voice it. You hate the reflection in the mirror? Stop looking then. Incredible how the main reason you want to see him do good is not for the team to win but for people to eat crow....and you give me some moral lessons? You are quickly becoming a parody of yourself. Stop doing that. You are better than that but your witchhunts against people that doesn't share the same opinions than yours have become sad lately.

Shaw doing good this year is your analysis of the whole Shaw deal, which is the money he got, the term he got, and what we have given to get him, which is 2 really high picks in a very very good draft. But hey, don't let that fool you. The only think you need is to see him do good. Which is what exactly?

By the way, I named you DeBrincat and Girard but it could be a lot more names in there. And even Timmins might have had at least 1 great pick out of the 2...

Like I said, I didn't realize you were one of the posters I was referring too when I made that post.

I legit hope he has a good year and stays healthy just so you can eat crow.

It's funny that you would say I have a witchhunt when my original post wasn't aimed at you, just so happened that way. I had specific people in mind with that post, the ones who continually shred Shaw.

You don't even know what I think about the Shaw trade so it's funny to watch you presume you know.

Like I said, the guy played most of last year with a concussion, while HE PLAYED and to watch people like you shred the guy...

Yeah, I'd love nothing more than to see him stay healthy and have a good year, I can't imagine what life must of been for him last year, he suffered in silence. So I'm rooting for him.

As for you naming DeBrincat and Girard...that's kinda of my point, you've decided to make it about them because you assume that's who the Habs would have drafted, because it helps prop up your crusade against management. Maybe if another player drafted later that round has a breakout year, you can add him to your list...

You can talk crap all you want about me "being better than that"...I couldn't careless.

At this point, I just want to see posters like you eat it...just cause I'm so sick of your ****.

Whatever "good posts" I had left in me have been buried under the negativity that currently supports this board. I've gotten that petty.

I was pretty indifferent about Shaw as a player, I didn't like the price paid for him, thought the contract was too long...

But now, God willing to he'll score 20 goals this year...nothing more I'd like to see.

 

[groovejuice]

Shawzy has looked great this preseason. Hopefully he's over the health issues that slowed him down last year and he's can play the way he can for us this year.

I don't believe people ever "get over" concussion syndrome. The symptoms can come and go but the damage typically remains and makes the odds of another concussion that much higher. It's a very unfortunate situation, especially for a high level athlete.

 

[Whitesnake]

Like I said, I didn't realize you were one of the posters I was referring too when I made that post.

I legit hope he has a good year and stays healthy just so you can eat crow.

Fine. And if so...I will. Do you know why? 'Cause I'll still be here. While, at the other end, you will dissapear to eat yours. When is the last time you've admitted being wrong for something? Yeah, I guess that's because you are always right. Yet, at this point, the difference between you and me is that even though I dislike this GM and the management, I still prefer to see us win. While you're only goal is to see posters be wrong. Sad. But hey, to each their own. And again, by the way, so the good season you are talking about is 20 goals? Points don't matter? Do you add how he'll show he's a playoff warrior too? Or solely talking about the season.

So in the end, you were indifferent to him as a player....you didn't like the price we paid.....you thought the contract was long....WHICH IS MY POINT.....but now you hope he does well so that people like me who thought we paid a price too high....that his contract was too long would eat crow....so...are you also talking about you too???? So you really can't make the difference between people who think this management sucks AND still hope that the Montreal Canadiens, somehow, still win?

But hey don't worry. I know where you are coming from. You were pretty quiet lately but that game last night revigorated you. I'm happy you are happy. Yeah I know...you couldn't care less. Same for me.

 

[TheBlindFan]

Shaw is a garbage player that will never produce enough to comensate for his salary and term. Ridiculously terrible contract for an injury prone player.

Eller is the better and more versatile player. Shaw only plays the PP. Eller could play PP and PK. As terrible a season as people claim Eller had, tale away Shaw's PP points and Eller outscored him by a wide margin including in the playoffs where Shaw laid goose eggs across the board. And we gave up two high 2nd round picks for this ?

We are also paying Plekanec 6M to take on Eller's defensive role resulting in a career low for Plekanec so dare I say that Eller actually had more use to this team than Shawful. Plus those 3.9M should have been used in securing Radulov and upgrading our top 6 who is an infinitely better player and moves the needle towards contention further than Shawful.

You are so wrong, Eller versatile? could play PP? wow! Shaw is a lot better and so many ways! And the dear old Plekky eat Eller alive!

BTW, you cannot "tale away PP". Eller was negative on PP on his last season with us (yes! when on ice, Habs on PP had more goal against than for! that's amazing no!), was the worst on PK (ga/60), prove that he could not play elsewhere than C of a 3rd lines. and had the worst even strength production (+/-). Hard to defend him.

We got 2 2nd round pick for... let's run!

I prefere Shaws (that cost about these two 2nd pick)

 

[TheGame777]

I have to make a confession that might get me a lot of hate on this board, but has I stated on a french forum when Shaw was signed by Bergevin, the format of the contract is close to being genius. I don't like Bergevin, I will never like him. He made a lot of mistakes but also made good decisions.

Simple economics state that the value of something depend on the market. Everything is related to the market and you can't dissociate yourself from that golden rule because it define how everything work. Look at every player that gravitates between 30-40 pts a season and between 14-20 goals a season and you will see the value of Andrew Shaw.

Most of the players in that range make 3,2 millions to 3,5 millions. Before Shaw signe his contract my guess was 3,7 millions and anything more than that would have been overpayment. Now he got 3,9 millions, 200 thousands more than I thought and I understand why. All of us should understand why he got so much because if you look at the range of players you won't see any with the same mix of playoff resume, ability to succeed on a top line, face off options, defensive capabilities and physical attributes.

Now a lot of people went crazy about the 5 millions for two seasons and said that it's the worst contract ever but I don't see it this way. You got a player that is fairly young, able to score between 15-20 goals and 40 pts potential. Front loading his contract was a smart move by Bergevin (as much as I don't like to say this) because if ever he needs to trade Shaw in the next seasons his salary will be way under his cap hit. It's easier to unlaod a player like thta for a poor team that want to reach the floor on the salary cap. Paying Shaw a million less than his cap hit in real money. Players like him are easy throw in. Players like him are easy to unload because of their fairly cheap contract, advantageous cap hit, ability to produce, well liked by their teamates and coaches.

With that contract, Bergevin made sure that he would find a trade partner for Shaw if he ever felt the need to trade him. Giving him more money short term knowing that it was his best years and he would be using them on the Habs while giving less in the second half if he didn't fit the plans anymore.

I challenge anyone on this board to look at the market and prove Shaw is overpayed for all the things he can offer on this team. That he makes 10 million on his first year or 3,9 has no impact, this contract was well done by Bergevin.

Like I said in an other thread I wasn't happy about losing two 2nd round picks and could have lived with Eller (I liked him) but there was never no doubt that Shaw is a better player and can bring more to the team.

 

[Bryson]

I have to make a confession that might get me a lot of hate on this board, but has I stated on a french forum when Shaw was signed by Bergevin, the format of the contract is close to being genius. I don't like Bergevin, I will never like him. He made a lot of mistakes but also made good decisions.

Simple economics state that the value of something depend on the market. Everything is related to the market and you can't dissociate yourself from that golden rule because it define how everything work. Look at every player that gravitates between 30-40 pts a season and between 14-20 goals a season and you will see the value of Andrew Shaw.

Most of the players in that range make 3,2 millions to 3,5 millions. Before Shaw signe his contract my guess was 3,7 millions and anything more than that would have been overpayment. Now he got 3,9 millions, 200 thousands more than I thought and I understand why. All of us should understand why he got so much because if you look at the range of players you won't see any with the same mix of playoff resume, ability to succeed on a top line, face off options, defensive capabilities and physical attributes.

Now a lot of people went crazy about the 5 millions for two seasons and said that it's the worst contract ever but I don't see it this way. You got a player that is fairly young, able to score between 15-20 goals and 40 pts potential. Front loading his contract was a smart move by Bergevin (as much as I don't like to say this) because if ever he needs to trade Shaw in the next seasons his salary will be way under his cap hit. It's easier to unlaod a player like thta for a poor team that want to reach the floor on the salary cap. Paying Shaw a million less than his cap hit in real money. Players like him are easy throw in. Players like him are easy to unload because of their fairly cheap contract, advantageous cap hit, ability to produce, well liked by their teamates and coaches.

With that contract, Bergevin made sure that he would find a trade partner for Shaw if he ever felt the need to trade him. Giving him more money short term knowing that it was his best years and he would be using them on the Habs while giving less in the second half if he didn't fit the plans anymore.

I challenge anyone on this board to look at the market and prove Shaw is overpayed for all the things he can offer on this team. That he makes 10 million on his first year or 3,9 has no impact, this contract was well done by Bergevin.

Like I said in an other thread I wasn't happy about losing two 2nd round picks and could have lived with Eller (I liked him) but there was never no doubt that Shaw is a better player and can bring more to the team.

I fail to see how front loading a contract makes a GM a genius. All it takes is an owner with deep pockets. What other reason would a GM have for not front loading a contract since it makes the player easier to trade.

What does Shaw bring to the table that Eller didn't? Stanley Cup experience? I've criticized Bergevin in the past for not having any players with stanley cup experience but Shaw is not the reason why the Hawks won the SC.

Shaw is not a 40 point guy. More like 30 and his goal production has gone down every single year for the past 4 years. As I said before take away Shaw's PP goals and Eller actually out produces him 5 on 5 for less money and term. If you want Eller to score on the PP just put him on the PP and he'll score too. This is actually a contract year for Eller. I wonder what he resigns for.

Also they've already demoted Hemsky to the 4th line. So either Hemsky has already proven that he';s no replacement for Radulov or they put Shaw on the 4th line making 3.9M. Both scenarios are a disaster.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I fail to see how front loading a contract makes a GM a genius. All it takes is an owner with deep pockets. What other reason would a GM have for not front loading a contract since it makes the player easier to trade.

What does Shaw bring to the table that Eller didn't? Stanley Cup experience? I've criticized Bergevin in the past for not having any players with stanley cup experience but Shaw is not the reason why the Hawks won the SC.

Shaw is not a 40 point guy. More like 30 and his goal production has gone down every single year for the past 4 years. As I said before take away Shaw's PP goals and Eller actually out produces him 5 on 5 for less money and term. If you want Eller to score on the PP just put him on the PP and he'll score too. This is actually a contract year for Eller. I wonder what he resigns for.

Also they've already demoted Hemsky to the 4th line. So either Hemsky has already proven that he';s no replacement for Radulov or they put Shaw on the 4th line making 3.9M. Both scenarios are a disaster.

Eller's goal production has gone down the last few years as well. 3 years to be precise. Shaw had the same amount of goals as Eller last year and had 4 more assists, but missed 14 games, Eller missed 1.

Why take away Shaw's PP goals? He scored those goals. If Eller was good enough or brought something complimentary to the PP, he'd be on it. He did get PP time at some point in Montreal, it was nothing conclusive.

Eller might have been less money and less term at the time of the deals, but his contract would be up anyways. He'd either still get traded or extended so his term would get prolonged. It'll end up being the same. And him making 3.5M now, he'd maybe end up making more than Shaw eventually.

I like Eller and I liked him in the Habs uniform. But for me, Shaw > Eller.

 

[smcgreg]

The hate he gets is 100% free. People who overbash him are all Eller fans who were frustrated with the sequence of trades they made last summer. All in all, Shaw even in a bad season was better than Eller ever was with Montreal, in addition to be younger and more versatile. Fast forward 18 months, Eller is a non factor in Washington and Shaw actually has some use here.

I'm no Eller fanboy and I hate the Shaw contract. It was too long and lucrative for what he's done as a Hab. To translate his numbers from Chicago to Montreal was a shot in the dark and ill advised. Montreal didn't/doesn't have the talent Chicago did/does, so, one shouldn't expect the kind of productivity he had in Chicago on a less talented team (last year). On top of it, he takes stupid penalties and isn't a smart player. All that being said, if he can continue to play in the regular season the way he finished the camp, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. I still think it was a bad decision by the GM, but if the contract can end up looking good in the end, I'm all for it.

 

[Belial]

I'm no Eller fanboy and I hate the Shaw contract. It was too long and lucrative for what he's done as a Hab. To translate his numbers from Chicago to Montreal was a shot in the dark and ill advised. Montreal didn't/doesn't have the talent Chicago did/does, so, one shouldn't expect the kind of productivity he had in Chicago on a less talented team (last year). On top of it, he takes stupid penalties and isn't a smart player. All that being said, if he can continue to play in the regular season the way he finished the camp, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. I still think it was a bad decision by the GM, but if the contract can end up looking good in the end, I'm all for it.

He produced last year at his usual pace! There was no drop in his offensive production whatsoever.

 

[Whitesnake]

I have no idea why we keep linking Elle to Shaw. And enough with this.."So we got 2 picks for Eller, we have 2 picks for Shaw, hence it's Eller for Shaw. What a stupid argumentation. You could have had both. You could have had neither. And as far as the picks are concerned, 2 high picks in a great draft DO NOT equal to 2 low picks in a different draft. Still despite the fact that I didn't like the move, I still hope Shaw finally becomes what we hope he should.

 

[KFlint]

Considering Dale Weise and Fleischman got us Danault and a second (awesome trade!) and Eller got us Ikonen and a second, I don't mind the Shaw trade to be honest. You win some, you lose some. Looking at the big picture I wouldn't say that Bergevin is on the losing side trade wise... Think he's done ok, just not great.

I'm pretty sure that management could have found a way to get a second round pick to draft DeBrincat had they been really high on him. The Shaw trade isn't the problem, it would be a scouting problem imo as they had chips to trade.

 

[Scriptor]

Maybe I wrong, but what the poster was referring to was:
" If you want loyalty, buy a dog" Bergevin July 2nd

His point was :

Give high contract to role player (Shaw) while giving less to high profile players (Radu) is a good reason to hate MB. Chisto add the well knows "dog" reference that was a highlight of this summer​

What point was:

• Radu had the highest offer from Bergevin until Dallas was in (3rd). He was so loyal to Montreal that ones he got the the same offer from Dallas, he run with it.
• Shaws didn't prevent Radu to be resigned, Radulov wanted the most $$ and got it (tax wise) The cap space was there... we still see it now!
• If Shaw salary is high (which is a bit high) so is the one from Radu. (when you compare metrics with similar production and AAV)

You may have miss the Bergevin Low-ball Markov and Radulov all summer long. The plan was the signed then both and at good money has far I'm concern. "Just a million more" would have make these contract ridiculously high. 7m Radu, 6M Markov...

What's being distorted is the statement that Bergevin said, "If you want loyalty, buy a dog." Now, it's Bergevin comparing Radulov to a dog as some hideous insult.

In the end, Bergevin offered the exact amount as Dallas for Radulov, with Dallas coming in to match that offer, after the fact. Loyalty would've meant Radulov accepting a lower offer to stay in Montreal. Bergevin was just saying that his offer was a great offer, given the market and that loyalty wasn't what he was looking for when he made the offer, that you couldn't rely on that if you wanted to keep a player. If loyalty was what a GM was looking for, he should look to get a dog instead. Otherwise, he should make a legitimate offer, like Bergevin had done.

To some fans, it's Bergevin calling Radulov less than a dog or comparing him to a dog. Interpretation often leads to a distortion of intent or meaning. Posters perpetually spewing other poster's interpretations as gospel just reinforces that distortion of intent or meaning.

The lamenting that Bergevin was insulting Radulov is so asinine that it's difficult to fathom how that distortion of intent/meaning continues to be perpetuated...

Signing Radulov and Markov to the amounts they wanted would have thrown the entire Cap structure for the Habs out the window. and the money would not have gone to Radulov's prime years. Certainly not to Markov's either.

I wouldn't have re-signed Markov to 6M for two years.

I would've likely resigned Radulov to the same money (6.25M), while adding a year (6 years), if that would've settled it. That's because I would've been willing to buy out a year or two of Radulov's contract, while managing the upcoming contracts to try and save the slightly more than 2M per year that the buyout would eventually have cost.

The fact that Bergevin didn't feel he should do this doesn't mean that he should've. It also doesn't mean that Radulov would've agreed to sign with Montreal under those circumstances either...

 

[scrubadam]

Considering Dale Weise and Fleischman got us Danault and a second (awesome trade!) and Eller got us Ikonen and a second, I don't mind the Shaw trade to be honest. You win some, you lose some. Looking at the big picture I wouldn't say that Bergevin is on the losing side trade wise... Think he's done ok, just not great.

I'm pretty sure that management could have found a way to get a second round pick to draft DeBrincat had they been really high on him. The Shaw trade isn't the problem, it would be a scouting problem imo as they had chips to trade.

Well I wouldn't even put the Shaw trade in the loss column just yet. This guy is more than a talentless grinder. He can score some really nice goals. I think he just needs to stay healthy and tone his game down a bit.

Remeber Marchand a few years ago? He was a bit reckless too. Eventually he toned it down and focused on his skill game and he exploded. Shaw is no Marchand and he won't ever score 30, but 20 is not out of the realm for him. IMO his hands are underrated on this board.

I am rooting for the guy he could be what this team needs. Some toughness, agitation, and scoring ability if he can put it all together.

 

[ECWHSWI]

if you look at the range of players you won't see any with the same mix of playoff resume, ability to succeed on a top line, face off options, defensive capabilities and physical attributes.

Thing is, if you look at ConcuShaw last season, there wasnt a lot of what you're listing either, especially not in the PO.