Proposal: Anaheim - Toronto

[Nithoniniel]

Never even said gardiner was good at PKing either I don't believe I'm just saying he doesn't play it cause he doesn't need to he plays 20-21 mins a game and 2 and change on the pp, he plays a lot ov ev which he is used at his best playing pk would be a waste since we had dion and polak for much of last season and ofc rielly. Once again he wasn't going to pk over thsee guys you gt that right? And if anything his elite shot suppression would suggest that he would be fine on the pk.

It's actually rather unrelated. The guys with the best statistics on the PK are often rather bad at shot suppression on ES.

Gardiner's shot suppression is driven by his ability to transition the puck from defense to offense, and defend against opposition transition. That's not at all as important on the PK. As I wrote above, the things that makes him an effective guy on ES are not much help on the PK, and the things you need on the PK are among his weaknesses.

 

[Vipers31]

Never even said gardiner was good at PKing either I don't believe I'm just saying he doesn't play it cause he doesn't need to he plays 20-21 mins a game and 2 and change on the pp, (...)

He "doesn't need to" because his coach doesn't feel like he'd help the team doing so, even though you had an average PK. No coach rests better options that only play 20-21 minutes.

(...) he plays a lot ov ev which he is used at his best playing pk would be a waste since we had dion and polak for much of last season and ofc rielly.

If playing him over Rielly, Dion, Polak and Hunwick is a "waste", then I'd say we have reached an agreement on what kind of contributions we could expect from him on the PK.

Once again he wasn't going to pk over thsee guys you gt that right?

Yeah, I got it, and I got that that isn't really speaking in his favour.

And if anything his elite shot suppression would suggest that he would be fine on the pk.

See what Nith said in that regard. There probably isn't a great deal of correlation between shot suppression and PK ability.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Gardiner is played against such weak competition 5x5, strange?

Relative Corsi Quality of Competition

1. MATT HUNWICK 1.796
2. MORGAN RIELLY 1.556
3. ANDREW CAMPBELL 0.435
4. BRENNAN 0.157
5. CONNOR CARRICK 0.150
6. JAKEGARDINER 0.057
7. MARINCIN -0.204
8. CORRADO -0.530
9. VALIEV -0.606

• GP - 79
• ATOI - 20:37
• D-Z% - 48%
• PK TOI - 0:20
• PP TOI - 2:19

Stop the overhype ... be honest or inform yourself

 

[Sniper99]

Alternatively, what if TOR and ANA swap 1st rounders instead of TOR giving those 2nd Rounders?

Here is a great idea. Leafs decline and hang up.

Yes lets trade a what might be a Top 10 1st for a late 1st round pick. Yeah, Leafs will fax over the paper work immediately.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

To TOR:
Fowler

To ANA (option 1):
Lupul (50% Retained)
Kapanen
Soshnikov
3rd Rounder

To ANA (option 2):
Hunwick
Kapanen
2nd Rounder

To ANA (option 3):
Nylander
* ANA also sends 2nd Rounder


To ANA (option 4):
Komarov
Hunwick
2nd Rounder

Option 3 is the only one that Anaheim would consider, The others are pretty bad it's quantity not quality and i'm pretty sure that Nylander would be a no go.

 

[AvroArrow]

1, 2 and 3 are horrible for Anaheim. Bunch of spare parts and prospects for a very good PMD who is quite underrated. You don't get a 1D or very good 2D for that lol.

And LOL at adding a 2nd for Nylander. He hasn't even played a full season in the NHL but he's worth a bonafide young 1D/2D at a low cap hit + 2nd

Except he's not a 1D, he's an average 2D at best

 

[Morgs]

Gardiner is played against such weak competition 5x5, strange?

Relative Corsi Quality of Competition

1. MATT HUNWICK 1.796
2. MORGAN RIELLY 1.556
3. ANDREW CAMPBELL 0.435
4. BRENNAN 0.157
5. CONNOR CARRICK 0.150
6. JAKEGARDINER 0.057
7. MARINCIN -0.204
8. CORRADO -0.530
9. VALIEV -0.606

• GP - 79
• ATOI - 20:37
• D-Z% - 48%
• PK TOI - 0:20
• PP TOI - 2:19

Stop the overhype ... be honest or inform yourself

Except he faces the third hardest competition of anyone on the team and we consider him our #3 defenseman... You're irrational hate of Gardiner not only makes 0 sense, but you're arguments make even less sense.

Go back to playing in the OHL.

 

[Kelly]

Gardiner is played against such weak competition 5x5, strange?

Relative Corsi Quality of Competition

1. MATT HUNWICK 1.796
2. MORGAN RIELLY 1.556
3. ANDREW CAMPBELL 0.435
4. BRENNAN 0.157
5. CONNOR CARRICK 0.150
6. JAKEGARDINER 0.057
7. MARINCIN -0.204
8. CORRADO -0.530
9. VALIEV -0.606

• GP - 79
• ATOI - 20:37
• D-Z% - 48%
• PK TOI - 0:20
• PP TOI - 2:19

Stop the overhype ... be honest or inform yourself

hahaha.

Andrew Campbell, T.J Brennan, and Connor Carrick -- how many games did those guys play for the Leafs last year? 6, 7, and 16 respectively. Too small of a sample size for those QoC numbers to have any meaning.

You should probably take your own advice, and inform yourself.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

hahaha.

Andrew Campbell, T.J Brennan, and Connor Carrick -- how many games did those guys play for the Leafs last year? 6, 7, and 16 respectively. Too small of a sample size for those QoC numbers to have any meaning.

You should probably take your own advice, and inform yourself.

MATT HUNWICK 1.796 << #1 is the NHL among d'men

MORGAN RIELLY 1.556 << #5 is the NHL among d'men

FOWLER 0.712 << #64 is the NHL among d'men

ALEXEI YEMELIN 0.485 << #100 is the NHL among d'men

GARDINER 0.057 << ?

 

[Kelly]

MATT HUNWICK 1.796 << #1 is the NHL among d'men


MORGAN RIELLY 1.556 << #5 is the NHL among d'men


FOWLER 0.712 << #64 is the NHL among d'men

ALEXEI YEMELIN 0.485 << #100 is the NHL among d'men

GARDINER 0.057 << ?

Yes stats without context are fun!!!

Gardiner's CorsiRel% over the past two seasons in D makes him a top ten D!

If you actually watched the Leafs last year (im starting to believe you didn't), Hunwick/Marincin and Rielly played again top lines, Gardiner and Phaneuf/Polak played 2nd pairing minutes. If you're really trying to argue that Gardiner was sheltered, I don't know what to say.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Except he faces the third hardest competition of anyone on the team and we consider him our #3 defenseman... You're irrational hate of Gardiner not only makes 0 sense, but you're arguments make even less sense.

Go back to playing in the OHL.

I have nothing against Gardiner? I am just informing you and other leaf fans how he is actually used. If I put Dion's and Polaks stats up, Gardiner would drop to 5th.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Yes stats without context are fun!!!

Gardiner's CorsiRel% over the past two seasons in D makes him a top ten D!

If you actually watched the Leafs last year (im starting to believe you didn't), Hunwick/Marincin and Rielly played again top lines, Gardiner and Phaneuf/Polak played 2nd pairing minutes. If you're really trying to argue that Gardiner was sheltered, I don't know what to say.

Gardiner was actually 5th in ATOI when Dion/Polak were on the team.

Relative Corsi Quality of Competition
Average Relative Corsi of opposing players

just prove me wrong, dont make this personal

 

[Kelly]

Gardiner was actually 5th in ATOI when Dion/Polak were on the team.

Relative Corsi Quality of Competition
Average Relative Corsi of opposing players

just prove me wrong, dont make this personal

No, he was actually fourth with Phaneuf/Polak. Polak was behind. He was 3rd in ESTOI.

I haven't made it personal at all? If you have watched them you would know Gardiner was clearly our #3D last year, but you obviously don't... which leads me to believe......

Do you under the actual difference between those QoC stats and the 0.001's and 0.01's? It really isn't much, definitely not enough to be the core of your argument.

 

[rhinoshawarma]

Except he's not a 1D, he's an average 2D at best

according to you. Can go either way from a low 1D to a good 2D... just don't understand leafs fans saying 3D or worse

 

[Mr Hockey*]

No, he was actually fourth with Phaneuf/Polak. Polak was behind. He was 3rd in ESTOI.

I haven't made it personal at all? If you have watched them you would know Gardiner was clearly our #3D last year, but you obviously don't... which leads me to believe......

Do you under the actual difference between those QoC stats and the 0.001's and 0.01's? It really isn't much, definitely not enough to be the core of your argument.

So, you are trying to get me to say Gardiner is a 2nd pairing d'man, what point are trying to make?

 

[Kelly]

So, you are trying to get me to say Gardiner is a 2nd pairing d'man, what point are trying to make?

You serious?

• Gardiner wasn't played against weak competition.
  *3rd best QoC with GP >20
• Gardiner wasn't sheltered.
  *52.% Off. Zone start - 3rd lowest out of the 5 D that played >20GP for us.
• Gardiner was our 2nd best d-man last year.
  *2nd in TOI, every D that played with him improved their shot results significantly, 2nd in points in D.

The Rielly pairing did get the harder matchups night in-night out, but Gardiner by no means was sheltered or thrown out against weak compeition, and from what I understand, that was your whole point?

 

[Mr Hockey*]

You serious?

• Gardiner wasn't played against weak competition.
  *3rd best QoC with GP >20
• Gardiner wasn't sheltered.
  *52.% Off. Zone start - 3rd lowest out of the 5 D that played >20GP for us.
• Gardiner was our 2nd best d-man last year.
  *2nd in TOI, every D that played with him improved their shot results significantly, 2nd in points in D.

The Rielly pairing did get the harder matchups night in-night out, but Gardiner by no means was sheltered or thrown out against weak compeition, and from what I understand, that was your whole point?

QOC - Corsi Quality of Competition ...

1. HUNWICK * 1.264
2. RIELLY * 0.838
3. PHANEUF * 0.318
4. GARDINER * minus - 0.240
5. POLAK * minus -1.824

Defensive Zone Starts ...

1. HUNWICK * 58%
2. RIELLY * 53%
3. POLAK * 53%
4. GARDINER * 48%
5. PHANEUF * 47%

PK ...

1. HUNWICK - 3:42
2. POLAK - 3:29
3. RIELLY - 2:21
4. PHANEUF - 1:36
5. GARDINER - 0:20

TOI ...

1. RIELLY - 23:14
2. HUNWICK - 22:34
3. PHANEUF - 22:02
4. GARDINER - 20:37
5. POLAK - 19:44

PP ...

1. PHANEUF - 3:02
2. GARDINER - 2:19
3. RIELLY - 1:49
4. POLAK - 0:03
5. HUNWICK -0:10

He seems to be a decent #4 d'man on the 2nd pairing ...

 

[Kelly]

QOC - Corsi Quality of Competition ...

1. RIELLY * 1.264
2. HUNWICK * 1.264
3. PHANEUF * 0.318
4. GARDINER * minus - 0.240
5. POLAK * minus -1.824 << played shutdown minutes

Defensive Zone Starts ...

1. HUNWICK * 58%
2. RIELLY * 53%
3. POLAK * 53%
4. GARDINER * 48%
5. PHANEUF * 47%

PK ...

1. HUNWICK - 3:42
2. POLAK - 3:29
3. RIELLY - 2:21
4. PHANEUF - 1:36
5. GARDINER - 0:20

TOI ...

1. RIELLY - 23:14
2. HUNWICK - 22:34
3. PHANEUF - 22:02
4. GARDINER - 20:37
5. POLAK - 19:44

PP ...

1. PHANEUF - 3:02
2. GARDINER - 2:19
3. RIELLY - 1:49
4. POLAK - 0:03
5. HUNWICK -0:10

He seems to be a decent #4 d'man on the 2nd pairing ...

Yeah the site I was using didn't have Phaneuf/Polak on it, so totally messed up where Jake ranked in some of those stats.

Well I think he's a great #3D right now, so I'm not gonna argue over peanuts.

But your whole argument is based on his QoC, which has little effect in reality. Home teams get last change, so 41 times a year - coaches may be playing their better players away from Jake for a reason, or they may not.

He isn't a player that excels at PK, we have other players to play that role. Don't know why you keep bringing that up like it's some sort of knock on Jake, lots of good players don't play PK.

Fact is, he's great at suppressing shots, most analytics show him to have great effect on defense, he's an amazing skater but who also has brain farts at times and is unable to physically impose players. My opinion, but if we can keep on the LH side 2nd pairing, and have Rielly on the first, it's a good basis to build around.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

I dont mind Jake, he can be exciting to watch when he has the puck. Babcock seems to know how to use him.


Relative Corsi

1. Nylander * 11.2 << Great #
2. Kadri * 6.9 << decent #

Relative Corsi Quality of Competition

1. Kadri *1.405 < < tough competition
2. Nylander * minus -0.189 < < weak competition

A high "Relative Corsi Quality of Competition" + a good "Relative Corsi" =

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

To Anaheim: JVR + Holland + Corrado

To Toronto: Vatanen + Stoner

Anaheim gets a top line left winger, a cheap utility player to round out their forward group and a salary dump to get them back under their internal cap.

Toronto gets a top pairing (maybe?) RHD signed for four years and drops a contract to provide some extra flexibility.

 

[slimbob8]

How would Anaheim fans feel about this?

To Toronto: Lindholm, Stoner/Bieksa
To Anaheim: JVR, Bozak, Kapanen, Bracco, 2nd

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

How would Anaheim fans feel about this?

To Toronto: Lindholm, Stoner/Bieksa
To Anaheim: JVR, Bozak, Kapanen, Bracco, 2nd

Lindholm is our most untouchable asset that's how we feel about that

 

[ACC1224]

How would Anaheim fans feel about this?

To Toronto: Lindholm, Stoner/Bieksa
To Anaheim: JVR, Bozak, Kapanen, Bracco, 2nd

They'll want Matthews like every other proposal that a Leaf fan throws out there.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

How would Anaheim fans feel about this?

To Toronto: Lindholm, Stoner/Bieksa
To Anaheim: JVR, Bozak, Kapanen, Bracco, 2nd

You wouldn't be willing to give up what it would take to get Lindholm, don't bother. Your offer isn't even remotely enticing.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

To Anaheim: JVR + Holland + Corrado

To Toronto: Vatanen + Stoner

Anaheim gets a top line left winger, a cheap utility player to round out their forward group and a salary dump to get them back under their internal cap.

Toronto gets a top pairing (maybe?) RHD signed for four years and drops a contract to provide some extra flexibility.

Value favours Ana, even then we don't need more pmd point producers.